OT: MLB Thread - Part XVI: Come On. Do Something.

[GoAwayPanarin]

God I'm not even a Yankee fan and all of these Yankees takes are so ridiculous.

They were in first place 4 days ago, christ.

It's like people just want to hedge their bets so they can at least say they were right if their team fails. Same **** with the Rangers.

Most of us who have been paying attention know that they've pretty much been the 2017 Mets over the last 2 months.

Thats a long stretch of bad baseball.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Flores and Rivera are redundant.

Whats the problem with that? They both are quality ML hitters, and both can play defense at a passable level. When you put a GG SS in the middle of them, you can make up for their slightly below-average defense. And they aren't completely similar, anyway. Way better than putting Reyes and Cabrera at 3B and SS.

 

[BMOK33]

Whats the problem with that? They both are quality ML hitters, and both can play defense at a passable level. When you put a GG SS in the middle of them, you can make up for their slightly below-average defense. And they aren't completely similar, anyway. Way better than putting Reyes and Cabrera at 3B and SS.

I'm really surprised the Mets were as interested as they were in moving Flores or Rivera at the deadline. Both scream of that Turner/Murphy type thing if they go to another team. Milwaukee certainly knew something in 2015. I remember thinking Flores for Gomez was a steal and it likely wouldn't have been. That trade probably would have looked very bad now because I really think the Mets don't win the division that year without Cespedes

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yeah, its very obvious that the Mets don't like either. I think its more the manager than the front office, but probably both. A new manager next season could help. Look at the lineups, AB totals, roster decisions. The Mets prefer bad 30-something year olds to them, even if they outplay those players. There's a disconnect between the manager, the team and reality. Any normal person would've reversed course, and had both starting with Cabrera and Reyes on the bench after like a month or two, along with calling up Rosario. Instead, Terry still trots out his boys every day when the team's out of contention and they are FA's. Makes a ton of sense.

 

[sbjnyc]

I'm really surprised the Mets were as interested as they were in moving Flores or Rivera at the deadline. Both scream of that Turner/Murphy type thing if they go to another team. Milwaukee certainly knew something in 2015. I remember thinking Flores for Gomez was a steal and it likely wouldn't have been. That trade probably would have looked very bad now because I really think the Mets don't win the division that year without Cespedes

You're forgetting that wheeler was part of that deal.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Whats the problem with that? They both are quality ML hitters, and both can play defense at a passable level. When you put a GG SS in the middle of them, you can make up for their slightly below-average defense. And they aren't completely similar, anyway. Way better than putting Reyes and Cabrera at 3B and SS.

They can't okay defense at a "passable level". And they're both right handed hitter - you can't even platoon them.

 

[darko]

The Indians are the real deal

They really are. Most complete team out there. Nats have added pen arms, Dodgers have loaded up, Astros lineup can rake and they have very good 1-2. This postseason should be amazing viewing.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

They can't okay defense at a "passable level". And they're both right handed hitter - you can't even platoon them.

So what's passable to you? I don't think either are any worse defensively than Cabrera, Reyes, Duda. I like Walker's defense a little more than both, but not a ton more. Neither are worse defensively than Murphy was. Who are we gonna add who's so good defensively?

 

[nyr2k2]

All of those guys are bad defensive players. Not just "slightly below average" but pretty bad. Even if there are no better alternatives available, it doesn't change the fact that the guys we have suck defensively. No need to sugarcoat their deficiencies.

I wonder how our pitchers would have done this year if we didn't have a ****** infield and a ****** outfield. I mean basically our entire defense was garbage.

 

[BMOK33]

Yeah, its very obvious that the Mets don't like either. I think its more the manager than the front office, but probably both. A new manager next season could help. Look at the lineups, AB totals, roster decisions. The Mets prefer bad 30-something year olds to them, even if they outplay those players. There's a disconnect between the manager, the team and reality. Any normal person would've reversed course, and had both starting with Cabrera and Reyes on the bench after like a month or two, along with calling up Rosario. Instead, Terry still trots out his boys every day when the team's out of contention and they are FA's. Makes a ton of sense.

I wouldn't be so sure Collins isn't back. I'm thinking they won't fire him so basically it may be his decision and I don't know if he wants to retire after a season like this

 

[Hire Sather]

The Mets need to add a reliable starting pitcher maybe more than anything.. there is nothing but question marks after Syndergaard and DeGrom. Yeah I know, if everything is perfect we have 5 aces.. something about selling a bridge.

 

[nyr2k2]

I wouldn't be so sure Collins isn't back. I'm thinking they won't fire him so basically it may be his decision and I don't know if he wants to retire after a season like this

I believe his contract is up at the end of the season. So they don't have to fire him. They can just "go a different direction."

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The Mets need to add a reliable starting pitcher maybe more than anything.. there is nothing but question marks after Syndergaard and DeGrom. Yeah I know, if everything is perfect we have 5 aces.. something about selling a bridge.

The problem is that you can't sell free agents on being #9.

If we have 7 or 8 SP options, and they all get injured, what can you really do other than hope you have depth in the minors?

The Mets have more injuries than other teams, but I don't think anyone's gonna sign with us on the assumption that 3 or 4 SP's will get injured. Its why Colon probably didn't return this season.

 

[nyr2k2]

The Mets need to add a reliable starting pitcher maybe more than anything.. there is nothing but question marks after Syndergaard and DeGrom. Yeah I know, if everything is perfect we have 5 aces.. something about selling a bridge.

I said this all winter and spring. It's more true now than it was then. They need to add two arms.

 

[nyr2k2]

The SPs you're adding aren't 8 or 9 on your depth chart. They're 3 or 4 or 5. Syndergaard and deGrom. They're your guarantees. You sign another guy or two that gets a guaranteed spot. Someone durable. Then you let your damaged goods like Harvey, Matz and Wheeler fight it out for spots.

Failing to address the rotation will absolutely, 100% bite the Mets in the ass again and ruin another season if they're stupid enough to do it.

 

[Hire Sather]

Exactly, the pitcher we're adding is in no way a 9. I'm not handing anything to Harvey, Matz or Wheeler. (I always forget about Gsellman, literally was thinking all this out while driving today and didn't even think of him. We have so many guys hurt I truthfully forget about guys)

Anyway, the rotation for me is Syndergaard, DeGrom and literally nothing else is set. I'm not even sure if Matt Harvey will be a major league pitcher anymore, he's been that bad. Matz and Wheeler are ticking timebombs, Matz is scared to throw his ****ing slider because he might get hurt.. it's a joke and if we go into next season with no added SP arms we will be in the exact same place this time next season. I'm looking for a pitcher and I am assuring him a spot in the starting rotation. I think asking for 2 is a bit much.. Sandy is not that aggressive, its like he hates to go outside the organization for anything.

I mean basically exactly what ny2k2 said above me.. the new guy gets the spot, the injured guys battle it out for the last two spots.

I don't even want Wheeler starting, even if he's healthy hes a slightly better Victor Zambrano.. I'm ready to move him to the pen.

As for wanting to do it before this year, I don't really bash Sandy for not getting one. It was the right move to give all these guys a shot this year to have our little super rotation.. we just cannot make that mistake again.

 

[nyr2k2]

LAD 43-7 in their last 50. Christ.

 

[darko]

Alex Cobb or Marco Estrada. Both free agents and both make sense for Mets. Either one would fit in well as a #3 guy behind Syndergaard and DeGrom.

 

[darko]

LAD 43-7 in their last 50. Christ.

Dodgers/Nats/Indians/Astros. Then there's the defending champs. Then there's a team like Boston who has Sale/Price/Porcello and if 1 of Porcello/Price gets hot they could make some noise. Can't wait.

 

[Hire Sather]

Playoffs will be lit

 

[BMOK33]

I'm get the feeling Harvey is going to be very good once he's healthy. He looked ridiculous when I saw him in ST this year which was the only time he's been healthy since October 2015. I think he started to have the injury somewhere near the end of ST since he was bad right from his first start of the season

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think its a mistake to think its the individual players. Regardless of whoever we bring in, they will probably get injured. Thats the Mets way. The team struggles with diagnosing injuries, injury management plans, injury prevention plans. For all we know, the doctor struggles with the procedures, as well.

I'm not against bringing in a pitcher, but as you said, Alderson doesn't really like spending on free agents, probably isn't all his fault though, I doubt he is given much by the Wilpons. If we are spending on a pitcher though, spend big on someone who's good, and that can be it for free agent spending. I don't want a #4 or 5 starter. Go get Ohtani or someone like that. Unless a player is injured to begin with, which usually doesn't happen before the season starts, why would I hand a spot to inferior players? I don't think it makes much sense. We have 5 starters better than these dime a dozen SP's, the problem is just that they are never healthy all at the same time. Should we just assume certain players will get injured?

Its a tricky spot to be in. I'd be cool with like a 1-3 of Syndergaard, Ohtani, deGrom, and then Wheeler, Matz 4 and 5. Gsellman, Lugo, Harvey 6, 7, 8, but I am certainly not giving a Bartolo Colon level pitcher a spot in the rotation just because he's not dealt with the Mets medical staff the last few years, like all our SP's have. Thats accepting worse performance because you are assuming injuries. I just don't agree with that logic.

 

[darko]

I'm get the feeling Harvey is going to be very good once he's healthy. He looked ridiculous when I saw him in ST this year which was the only time he's been healthy since October 2015. I think he started to have the injury somewhere near the end of ST since he was bad right from his first start of the season

Yet you can't hang your hopes on him. If he rebounds then great, you have 1 of the best rotations in baseball. But you have to assume he doesn't or you could be punting the season. ... again.

 

[darko]

Can't see Mets getting Otani. Posting fee plus the contract. I just don't see Wilpons doing it.

I think he goes to West Coast somewhere. Dodgers, Mariners, Giants maybe.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yet you can't hang your hopes on him. If he rebounds then great, you have 1 of the best rotations in baseball. But you have to assume he doesn't or you could be punting the season. ... again.

The whole team is based on these pitchers. Not exactly a powerhouse offense or bullpen, not a good defensive team, all the speed comes from a player who was called up less than a week ago, manager is one of the worst in the league.

The team is built around having 5 guys who will give you quality starts. There's like no point in trying to change it up at this point, given how long it would take to change that effectively, would take years. Hope these guys stay healthy. If not, we'll eventually go back to mediocrity until we have new owners who spend. The Mets got incredibly lucky anyway with these pitchers. Syndergaard was a trade, deGrom was converted from SS, Wheeler a trade, Gsellman and Lugo later round picks. None of these guys were free agent signings, only two were high draft picks, Harvey and Matz. How many teams get that many MLB SP's without signing them off the market or drafting them early in the draft?