OT: MLB Discussion Thread: Part XXV

[nyr2k2]

I remember Manfred saying that a bunch of the tests could have been false positives, that they couldn't (for whatever reason) distinguish between some substances that were legal, OTC, and not banned that could have in turn lead to a positive result. There was also the issue of the number of names on the list supposedly being greater than the number of guys that tested positive. The whole thing was a mess.

I also think that he used, but the idea that he conclusively tested positive and this in indisputable, I think that's just false. There is tremendous uncertainty as to whether he did in fact test positive in those tests.

Also, I don't care if he did.

 

[One Winged Angel]

So now that Pollock signed with the Dodgers, that eliminates a suitor for Harper.

Things just got more interesting.

 

[nyr2k2]

I feel like Harper ends up back in Washington.

 

[East Coast Bias]

 

[One Winged Angel]

It was deleted. What did it say?

 

[One Winged Angel]

Was this the Martino one about Justin Wilson?

Solid move for the Mets, I really liked him as a Yankee. He’s got some solid stuff and knows how to get batters out.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Was this the Martino one about Justin Wilson?

Solid move for the Mets, I really liked him as a Yankee. He’s got some solid stuff and knows how to get batters out.

He's kind of fallen off of a cliff but it's a fine gamble.

I haven't really hated what the Mets have done this off season outside of the Cano deal.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Was this the Martino one about Justin Wilson?

Solid move for the Mets, I really liked him as a Yankee. He’s got some solid stuff and knows how to get batters out.

yeah he deleted and reposted with the terms.

2 years, $5m per. The way he worded it first, looked like 10m per instead of total.

 

[nyr2k2]

I really like that move. Very reasonable price and if he can continue to keep the walks manageable he'll be a good option. Really needed a lefty.

 

[Machinehead]

My whole thing with PED's is, I'm not condoning it, but it's not magic pixie juice that makes you good at baseball.

If anything, it helps you prepare a little better in the weight room. On the field, your talent is what it is.

Again, that's not say it wasn't wrong for them to go against the rules, but it doesn't make you THAT much better like people think it does.

Then it becomes solely an issue of breaking the rules, and I don't believe the Hall of Fame should be the jury of morality.

Granted, if you've done something extraordinary like Willie O'Ree, sure, but those cases should be exceptions.

 

[sbjnyc]

Brady Anderson hit 50 homers in 1996 and never hit 25 any other year. Wade Boggs hi 24 HR in 1987 and never hit 12 any other year. I'm not saying these guys juiced but it shows a player doesn't need to gain 50 lbs of muscle mass to hit for power. If a player with "warning track power" gains 5% bat speed how many more HRs does he hit? MLB caliber players can already hit the ball, that's not why some (many?) players juiced.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

My whole thing with PED's is, I'm not condoning it, but it's not magic pixie juice that makes you good at baseball.

If anything, it helps you prepare a little better in the weight room. On the field, your talent is what it is.

Again, that's not say it wasn't wrong for them to go against the rules, but it doesn't make you THAT much better like people think it does.

Then it becomes solely an issue of breaking the rules, and I don't believe the Hall of Fame should be the jury of morality.

Granted, if you've done something extraordinary like Willie O'Ree, sure, but those cases should be exceptions.

It helps with recovery which is the big benefit from taking PEDs.

Also helps with bat speed, which is pretty crucial. No it won’t take someone who doesn’t have the timing and give them said timing, but it will allow players to catch up to pitches that they couldn’t get to before.

Ortiz is a prime example of this.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Brady Anderson hit 50 homers in 1996 and never hit 25 any other year. Wade Boggs hi 24 HR in 1987 and never hit 12 any other year. I'm not saying these guys juiced but it shows a player doesn't need to gain 50 lbs of muscle mass to hit for power. If a player with "warning track power" gains 5% bat speed how many more HRs does he hit? MLB caliber players can already hit the ball, that's not why some (many?) players juiced.

Brady Anderson and Luis Gonzalez definitely did them. One year wonders that went away. Gonzalez almost won a triple crown if it wasn’t for Bonds, who was also on roids, having an all-time year.

Boggs I don’t believe did anything. He played in arguably the most hitter friendly park in the league. Lazy fly balls down either line are homers in Fenway. It wasn’t like he was hitting straight line shots into the seats over by that triangle in right center.

 

[sbjnyc]

Brady Anderson and Luis Gonzalez definitely did them. One year wonders that went away. Gonzalez almost won a triple crown if it wasn’t for Bonds, who was also on roids, having an all-time year.

Boggs I don’t believe did anything. He played in arguably the most hitter friendly park in the league. Lazy fly balls down either line are homers in Fenway. It wasn’t like he was hitting straight line shots into the seats over by that triangle in right center.

If you look at their HR rates over their careers they both hit at 3 std deviations above their career average in their big year. Boggs played his entire career in hitter friendly parks except maybe his last 2 years at tropicana.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't think Boggs or Gonzalez did them. They were broom sticks. You don't do steroids and stay that skinny, and if you do, they're not helping you much.

Some guys just have crazy years.

 

[Machinehead]

Brady Anderson on the other hand...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't think Boggs or Gonzalez did them. They were broom sticks. You don't do steroids and stay that skinny, and if you do, they're not helping you much.

Some guys just have crazy years.

 

[sbjnyc]

I don't think Boggs or Gonzalez did them. They were broom sticks. You don't do steroids and stay that skinny, and if you do, they're not helping you much.

Some guys just have crazy years.

Hitting HR at a rate 3 SD over average in a single year is more than just a fluke. Would be interesting to see how many other players did that since it should be roughly 1 in a 1,000.

 

[Machinehead]

 

[Machinehead]

Hitting HR at a rate 3 SD over average in a single year is more than just a fluke. Would be interesting to see how many other players did that since it should be roughly 1 in a 1,000.

And if they could get 3 SD in a syringe, why did they stop?

 

[darko]

I feel like Harper ends up back in Washington.

Same.

 

[darko]

I don't think Boggs or Gonzalez did them. They were broom sticks. You don't do steroids and stay that skinny, and if you do, they're not helping you much.

Some guys just have crazy years.

Not true. You can do steroids and still look slim.

 

[Machinehead]

Not true. You can do steroids and still look slim.

I mean, you could, but what's the point if you're not working out and getting big?

 

[darko]

I mean, you could, but what's the point if you're not working out and getting big?

You can work out like a mad man on steroids and still not pack on size. It increases your metabolism so if you don't pig out you'll get that chiseled look rather than someone carrying baby fat.

 

[ThirdEye]

Jesus... he looks like he's at like 7% body fat there