OT: MLB Discussion Thread: Part XXV
- Thread starter Krams
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CC was a HoF even before Moose got inducted.
Said narrative changed the second middle relievers started getting more innings. Guys just don't eat the innings that they used to and lose wins in the process.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
So hard to determine if Big Papi abused at any point even if it was a short stint.
He was part of the group tested for the MLB to determine if they should change/implement a stronger disciplinary system. It was said he tested positive and then it was dismissed. Big Papi challenged it...but to be honest that means nothing because ARod vehemently denied initially too.
Big Papi didn’t come up again when the system was put out there.
His body transformation between when he was a Twin and then his career in Boston is pretty significant, but some of that looks like fat build up, but who’s to say PEDs didnt play a part in that. He looks like he had the body of someone who took PEDs and then didnt maintain his body along with them.
He was part of the group tested for the MLB to determine if they should change/implement a stronger disciplinary system. It was said he tested positive and then it was dismissed. Big Papi challenged it...but to be honest that means nothing because ARod vehemently denied initially too.
Big Papi didn’t come up again when the system was put out there.
His body transformation between when he was a Twin and then his career in Boston is pretty significant, but some of that looks like fat build up, but who’s to say PEDs didnt play a part in that. He looks like he had the body of someone who took PEDs and then didnt maintain his body along with them.
East Coast Bias
Registered User
I really don’t care about PED usage because for about 15-20 years everyone was using them. Everyone. The league was really fun then too.
It shouldn’t keep Clemens and Bonds out but it doesn’t bother me. They’re both huge sacks of shit.
f*** the Buster Olneys of the world who get all sanctimonious about it. They all knew. Well before we knew. Everyone profited off it.
It shouldn’t keep Clemens and Bonds out but it doesn’t bother me. They’re both huge sacks of shit.
f*** the Buster Olneys of the world who get all sanctimonious about it. They all knew. Well before we knew. Everyone profited off it.
He failed a test.
Thats pretty cut and dry to me. You don't go from being a platoon player to a mega star at almost 30 with out some help on the side.
Just for reference, Piazza didn't get in for a bit because he was suspected of using. He never failed a test.
If Bonds and Clemens, guys who were true legends in the sport even with their drug use aren't in, Ortiz shouldn't be in.
Bob Richards
Mr. Mojo Risin'
That's why I love the MLB. They got to bank big time off of the steroid dudes SAVING BASEBALL after the 94 strike and generated a kajillion-fofillion dollars off it.
Then out of nowhere they got to act as their own sheriff and punish these players and protected the "integrity" of the game.
The greatest hitter of all time isn't in the hall of fame, but Bud Selig is.
darko
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- Feb 16, 2009
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Don't worry Wilmer Flores will get in.
Huh?
If Edgar Martinez is a HOF player, then David Ortiz most certainly is. If anything, Edgar was more borderline for me (but likely yes), and Ortiz a shoe-in practically.
darko
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Ortiz career batting average: .286
Martinez career batting average: .312
Ortiz career OBP: .380
Martinez career OBP: .418
Ortiz career home runs: 541
Martinez career home runs: 309
Ortiz career slugging percentage: .552
Martinez career slugging percentage: .515
Ortiz career OPS: .931
Martinez career OPS: .933
Sorry, but if Edgar is a HOF, then Ortiz most definitely is.
darko
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wRC+ (ball park ajusted) is the best stat out there. 147-140 advantage to Edgar. Sorry but I think you are wrong.
Ortiz is a God in Boston. There's more to baseball than Boston.
Okay, Ortiz is still right there with the wRC+ stat.
Agree to disagree. Regardless, Ortiz is most definitely getting in the hall of fame.
darko
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Ortiz cheated, Edgar didn't.
I mean thats a pretty massive over site.
Edit: I missed the earlier portion of this conversation. But still, f*** Ortiz.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
Darko mentioned steroids or not, so didn't take that into account.
Regardless, I think for steroid users - either they should all go in, or none of them should.
As others have said, given the fact that Bonds and Clemens are struggling to make it and may not, it's far from a definite that Ortiz makes it. I'd almost call it doubtful, personally. He's obviously more media-friendly than the other two, but his credentials and far less impressive than theirs. We'll see.
Massive problem with baseball today.
Velocity is great if you can locate with it and don't do funky stuff with your body in order to generate it. No one cares if you can throw 100 mph if you can't command it or blow out your arm doing it.
Machinehead
Fox Mafia Consigliere
The only reason he's not in already is because they don't have enough voters to give him 101%.
East Coast Bias
Registered User
Edgar had a great year at 29, spent 2 years injured, and then went on a 10 year run starting at age 32 including his best year at 37. Are we sure about him? Cause if we're applying the same logic that we're using on other players suspicious numbers, his are suspect as hell.
I don't doubt Ortiz used steroids. Def think he did. But the proof is a 2009 NY Times article claiming he had a failed test that was sealed in US govt custody, taken from 2003. No one ever actually proved that to be true or false. The entire 2003 was called into question for a number of reasons.
Their career arcs are very similar.
Suspicious as hell for sure, but he never failed a test.
Wouldn’t surprise me at all if he used and actually had no idea that he peaked as late as he did. I bet he did use.
But we know Ortiz failed a test. There is no suspicion there, he flat out failed. Until they let other guys who also used PED’s who were better players than he was, he has no business getting in.
East Coast Bias
Registered User
Except you don't know for sure. I think he did, but we really don't know.
You have an article based on a test 6 years earlier, which no one saw, that was called into question as a whole, and baseball coming out and basically saying "we used these tests to gauge the population of players using, we can't verify individuals." Maybe that's BS, and they just wanted to cover their stars. But we really don't know for sure.
We know Manny failed tests, we know Cano did, we know many others did. But we don't definitively know about Ortiz.
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