Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[notDatsyuk]

Naws, I was saying they have scored 40 with him out there and 12 without him on the ice...all year... and that he's missed 12 games too.

Ok - that makes more sense. You're in including the second PP unit and pointing out that it isn't as efficient as the first unit.

 

[Racer88]

You can't pretend something when it's something else. You are trying to make it sound like what you say matters. If someone else were to want to acquire Marner, do you think they value him based on an assumption of 82 games. This is really petulant shit and unworthy of an adult discussion. Nobody values his production on 82 games when he hasn't played them.

What’s unworthy of an adult discussion is you claiming things that simply not true.
Nobody should claim he is a 100 point when he has never been one.
You seem to think you are the ultimate word on things hockey related especially Marner but you are not. You are simply a hockey forum poster like the rest of us.

 

[DarkKnight]

What’s unworthy of an adult discussion is you claiming things that simply not true.
Nobody should claim he is a 100 point when he has never been one.
You seem to think you are the ultimate word on things hockey related especially Marner but you are not. You are simply a hockey forum poster like the rest of us.

He's been on a 100 point pace, so why split hairs like its some egregious affront to dare suggest otherwise? I mean he got 97 points in 72 games, what a silly hill to die on.

 

[Zybalto]

Why bother to quote me if you're going to ignore what I'm saying? Seems like you're just trolling at this point but whatever, enjoy the game tonight.

I think I did give a crazy detailed answer to why Marner is one of the best overall players in the league (or has been the last few months) and how the team has managed to balance out his loss by other guys stepping up.

Cheers
GLG!

Ok - that makes more sense. You're in including the second PP unit and pointing out that it isn't as efficient as the first unit.

Not just that.

Its also that the first unit is way less efficient without Marner as well.


Like this for example:

Matthews/Marner/Nylander:
TOI on the PP: 182:01
Goals/60: 12.52

One of the deadliest forward trios in hockey on the PP. Probably only 2nd to the Oilers (and barely)

Matthews/Nylander without Marner:
TOI on the PP: 54:13
Goals/60: 4.43

...

 

[Notsince67]

What’s unworthy of an adult discussion is you claiming things that simply not true.
Nobody should claim he is a 100 point when he has never been one.
You seem to think you are the ultimate word on things hockey related especially Marner but you are not. You are simply a hockey forum poster like the rest of us.

Read the context of the discussion. It was suggested he makes less because he isn't scoring due to not playing. This doesn't happen and all totals are normalized with people who are competent at basic math

 

[Antropovsky]

Why bother to quote me if you're going to ignore what I'm saying? Seems like you're just trolling at this point but whatever, enjoy the game tonight.

that poster is ignoring all the relevant questions pertaining to the very flawed stats they're choosing to cite. Obviously because they're well aware their approach is flawed. The stats they are referencing are missing many variables and are much too basic.

 

[Racer88]

He's been on a 100 point pace, so why split hairs like its some egregious affront to dare suggest otherwise? I mean he got 97 points in 72 games, what a silly hill to die on.

I’m not dying on any hill however I feel that sometimes we need accuracy especially with such a polarizing player.

 

[Antropovsky]

I think I did give a crazy detailed answer to why Marner is one of the best overall players in the league (or has been the last few months) and how the team has managed to balance out his loss by other guys stepping up.

Cheers
GLG!


Not just that.

Its also that the first unit is way less efficient without Marner as well.


Like this for example:

Matthews/Marner/Nylander:
TOI on the PP: 182:01
Goals/60: 12.52

One of the deadliest forward trios in hockey on the PP. Probably only 2nd to the Oilers (and barely)

Matthews/Nylander without Marner:
TOI on the PP: 54:13
Goals/60: 4.43

...

So quality of opponent doesn't matter? So you think playing a last placed team is the same as playing a first place team? Lol

Leafs have had 35 powerplay chances since Marners injury. 51% of those powerplays have been vs the 1st, 3rd and 8th ranked PK in the NHL.

 

[DarkKnight]

I’m not dying on any hill however I feel that sometimes we need accuracy especially with such a polarizing player.

He's been on a 100 point pace the last four seasons on a 82 game year. Sounds pretty "accurate" to me, but yes he's never done it, enjoy. I find the above amazing. It's the playoffs where the debate really lies for me.

 

[Racer88]

He's been on a 100 point pace the last four seasons on a 82 game year. Sounds pretty "accurate" to me, but yes he's never done it, enjoy. I find the above amazing. It's the playoffs where the debate really lies for me.

I’m with you on the playoff situation and to be honest I how he blows our socks off in the playoffs and then pay him what ever he wants

 

[DarkKnight]

I’m with you on the playoff situation and to be honest I how he blows our socks off in the playoffs and then pay him what ever he wants

Exactly.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I feel that sometimes we need accuracy especially with such a polarizing player.

We do indeed need accuracy, and it's much more accurate to describe him by the level that he's performed at over the past 6 years, instead of his games played and hitting arbitrary numbers.

 

[Zybalto]

Havnt been keeping up much with the other thing going on in here but let me try.

Marner the last 6 seasons (including this one) = 1.220 points/game

1.220 x 82 = 100.04

In the 410 games played over the last 6 seasons, Marner is a 100 point player.

Marner is a 100 point player.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Read the context of the discussion. It was suggested he makes less because he isn't scoring due to not playing. This doesn't happen and all totals are normalized with people who are competent at basic math

You made a big deal out of Marner's production on the PK but you still haven't answered the question about how good he is at preventing goals while on the PP. Is the research taking longer than you anticipated?

 

[Antropovsky]

You made a big deal out of Marner's production on the PK but you still haven't answered the question about how good he is at preventing goals while on the PP. Is the research taking longer than you anticipated?

Whenever certain posters blow smoke up asse# and people notice and call them on it, they just act like they never said it and move on.

I asked @Zybalto numerous questions regarding the stats he cited and he ran and hid.

 

[Aashir]

What’s unworthy of an adult discussion is you claiming things that simply not true.
Nobody should claim he is a 100 point when he has never been one.
You seem to think you are the ultimate word on things hockey related especially Marner but you are not. You are simply a hockey forum poster like the rest of us.

meh this always weirded me out

So Mackinnon wasn't a 100 point player till last year? Ditto with Panarin? I have marner in the same boat where I considered/consider all 3 100 point players with those two from like 21-22 and marner from last year, sure he hasn't hit it but he's had two seasons which are 100 point equivalent, needing 3 in 10 and 1 in 2 more to get there. The Covid division was too short to say IMO, and this season we will see but probably the same.

If a guy scores 49 goals 2-3 times and plays 78-80 games, I wouldn't hesitate to call him a 50 goal scorers in arguments. Sure he didn't hit it, but when he played he gave a 50 goal scorers impact/value. Same with Marner

 

[PromisedLand]

Respect Marner's self control for not not looking to his left ogling



EDIT: Nevermind

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It's the same "just get into the playoffs and anything can happen" mentality that has plagued this franchise since The Beatles were popular that prevents them from doing the right thing.

Apparently the Leafs record is better without Marner. Even though he's one of the best players in the league. Maybe we should call this conundrum "Marner's Paradox".

The amazing thing is that it's not just confined to Marner.

Their record with every one of the stars out of the lineup is better. If one of these guys isn't needed then why are they even all on the team. All evidence points to the Leafs roster construction philosophy as being flawed.

Like building a house without a foundation.

Just stand up four walls and pile the roof on top. The damn thing is top heavy and collapses at the slightest pressure. Oh well just keep doing the same thing anyway.

I can't wait for them to do it all again next year.

 

[QJo]

I get the sense that if we swap Kucherov and Marner we have at least one cup. I don't get that feeling with Matthews and any other centre in the league. Am I off base here?

 

[666]

Whenever certain posters blow smoke up asse# and people notice and call them on it, they just act like they never said it and move on.

I asked @Zybalto numerous questions regarding the stats he cited and he ran and hid.

Says the guy that has zero clue about advanced stats, still uses Corsi for some bizarre reason and NEVER provides ANY context. Think man. Think.

 

[Notsince67]

I get the sense that if we swap Kucherov and Marner we have at least one cup. I don't get that feeling with Matthews and any other centre in the league. Am I off base here?

You have seen Kucherovs playoff stats against the Leafs vs Marners against Tampa I assume? Playing head to head as well. Just wondering how you make that conclusion.

 

[ACC1224]

I get the sense that if we swap Kucherov and Marner we have at least one cup. I don't get that feeling with Matthews and any other centre in the league. Am I off base here?

Myself I say no but obviously some will agree with you.
It would be more likely if you swap in one or all of the Coach, Hedman and the Goalie, IMO.

 

[Notsince67]

Myself I say no but obviously some will agree with you.
It would be more likely if you swap in one or all of the Coach, Hedman and the Goalie, IMO.

Hedman cleans up a lot of Kucherovs defensive flaws. Leafs don't have a dman of that quality that can allow a player to ignore any defensive responsibility. That said...Keefe would f up his deployment.
I'm leaning Cooper

 

[QJo]

Myself I say no but obviously some will agree with you.
It would be more likely if you swap in one or all of the Coach, Hedman and the Goalie, IMO.

Agreed more likely with Hedman and Goalie but they are a tier or two or more separated from what we have. Marner and Kucherov are considered closer level of player but I think Kucherov plays a style that is more likely to win.
Cooper to Keefe might be the widest gap in my opinion which says a lot comparing to Vas.

 

[ACC1224]

Agreed more likely with Hedman and Goalie but they are a tier or two or more separated from what we have. Marner and Kucherov are considered closer level of player but I think Kucherov plays a style that is more likely to win.

He's able to play a more offensive focused style because of the Goalie and Defense.
His style is closer to Nylanders than Marners.