Player Discussion Mitch Marner

[Zybalto]

Hedman cleans up a lot of Kucherovs defensive flaws. Leafs don't have a dman of that quality that can allow a player to ignore any defensive responsibility. That said...Keefe would f up his deployment.
I'm leaning Cooper

I've done these thought experiments a ton.

I can see Tampa still going those runs swapping coaches, swapping star wingers, swapping centers and even swapping Rielly and Hedman.

I see no way they even sniff the finals if they swap the goalies we have had though.

The underrating of Vasy and goaltending in the playoffs in general is really strange to me. Just like the superbowl, it's strange when a merely decent quarterback that goes ona solid run wins the superbowl abd yet goalies, the only ones out there the whole game, don't have quite the same aura.

 

[DarkKnight]

I get the sense that if we swap Kucherov and Marner we have at least one cup. I don't get that feeling with Matthews and any other centre in the league. Am I off base here?

Because Matthews always shows up in big playoff games. I say two cups! This place is funny.

See you Saturday Marner, we need you. Suspect he starts on the second line, they’ve been really disjointed last two games.

 

[ToneDog]

Somebody wake me up when Marner puts up 128 points for the first time, let alone a second time. Anybody left thinking Marner > Kutch is out to lunch. Even more so given the cap hits.

Do yourselves a favour and stop embarrassing yourselves when it come to Mitch vs Kutch. I know I can't take you seriously.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Somebody wake me up when Marner puts up 128 points for the first time, let alone a second time. Anybody left thinking Marner > Kutch is out to lunch. Even more so given the cap hits.

Do yourselves a favour and stop embarrassing yourselves when it come to Mitch vs Kutch. I know I can't take you seriously.

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Marner is probably a top 5 winger in the league but if I had to put a number to it, he's probably #4 or 5

1. Kucherov
2. Pastrnak
3. Rantanen
4. Tkachuk
5. Marner

I don't think Toronto can really do much more than what he's already making. He's been making 2024 money for 6 years.

 

[Notsince67]

I've done these thought experiments a ton.

I can see Tampa still going those runs swapping coaches, swapping star wingers, swapping centers and even swapping Rielly and Hedman.

I see no way they even sniff the finals if they swap the goalies we have had though.

The underrating of Vasy and goaltending in the playoffs in general is really strange to me. Just like the superbowl, it's strange when a merely decent quarterback that goes ona solid run wins the superbowl abd yet goalies, the only ones out there the whole game, don't have quite the same aura.

Vasy is fair pick. He is chained to Tampa though and for good reason. Hedman though...hmm. How much does someone pay for a guy like that after his contract is up and at his age? Probably more than a pocket full of change, knowing full well that the decline will be steep.

 

[ToneDog]

Marner is probably a top 5 winger in the league but if I had to put a number to it, he's probably #4 or 5

1. Kucherov
2. Pastrnak
3. Rantanen
4. Tkachuk
5. Marner

I don't think Toronto can really do much more than what he's already making. He's been making 2024 money for 6 years.

One of those 5 players has never tasted a SCF. There is no shame in being a top 5 winger. What I can't handle are those that defend the contract and the pumping of his tires.

 

[ACC1224]

Somebody wake me up when Marner puts up 128 points for the first time, let alone a second time. Anybody left thinking Marner > Kutch is out to lunch. Even more so given the cap hits.

Do yourselves a favour and stop embarrassing yourselves when it come to Mitch vs Kutch. I know I can't take you seriously.

View attachment 845860

Yep, he puts up a lot of points, great offensive player. Amazing you could score 113 points and be a minus player.
I don't think anyone said the bolded nor is embarrassed.

Marner is probably a top 5 winger in the league but if I had to put a number to it, he's probably #4 or 5

1. Kucherov
2. Pastrnak
3. Rantanen
4. Tkachuk
5. Marner

I don't think Toronto can really do much more than what he's already making. He's been making 2024 money for 6 years.

I'd swap 4 and 5.

 

[Zybalto]

Vasy is fair pick. He is chained to Tampa though and for good reason. Hedman though...hmm. How much does someone pay for a guy like that after his contract is up and at his age? Probably more than a pocket full of change, knowing full well that the decline will be steep.

He's already declined defensively to an extent and he's going to never live up to a retirement contract he rightly deserves. Let Tampa grab put themselves further in cap he'll by paying one of their legends too much.

Other fish for us to grab.

Still think we should have grabbed a guy like Saros when he was available as a rental before Nashville went on their crazy run.

There's a reason why Tampa got absolutely pasted by the Jackets the last time Vasy went cold in a playoff series. Vasy went cold, Bob got hot, Kucherov lost his fragile mind and got kicked out of the playoffs and the "best team ever" got swept in the first round with Cooper behind the bench.

It's why when Bowman was asked what the secret to success in the playoffs was and the first would that came out of his mouth was goaltending. The greatest coach in history knows what the value of having a Dryden and Hasek was for his dynasties.

 

[ToneDog]

Yep, he puts up a lot of points, great offensive player. Amazing you could score 113 points and be a minus player.
I don't think anyone said the bolded nor is embarrassed.

Many have said Marner > Kutch, Marner best RWer in the league in the past.

As for the -2, it was one year. Look at the rest of his career. 4x100 points seasons. Not pacing for 100 point seasons. Let's not bring up hardware.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Yep, he puts up a lot of points, great offensive player. Amazing you could score 113 points and be a minus player.
I don't think anyone said the bolded nor is embarrassed.


I'd swap 4 and 5.

I was initially listing Marner at #4 but Tkachuk broke 100 points a couple of times.

I went to post season, Marner has the slightly higher PT/game in the playoffs but Tkachuk has went further, you could say team/individual but in the end, I gave it to Tkachuk but you could make a case either way.

 

[ToneDog]

I was initially listing Marner at #4 but Tkachuk broke 100 points a couple of times.

I went to post season, Marner has the slightly higher PT/game in the playoffs but Tkachuk has went further, you could say team/individual but in the end, I gave it to Tkachuk but you could make a case either way.

Some might argue Willie > Marner today. Not sure why he's mailed in the last couple of games when 100 points is almost a gimme.

 

[DarkKnight]

One of those 5 players has never tasted a SCF. There is no shame in being a top 5 winger. What I can't handle are those that defend the contract and the pumping of his tires.

Imagine pumping the tires of a top 5 winger in the league, the absurdity. I can't stand people acting like he's a borderline impact player.

Just glad I can enjoy it, he's one of the best players to suit up for the Leafs. Obviously.

 

[ToneDog]

Imagine pumping the tires of a top 5 winger in the league, the absurdity. I can't stand people acting like he's a borderline impact player.

Just glad I can enjoy it, he's one of the best players to suit up for the Leafs. Obviously.

100% just don't be toxic about it. I respect your Marner posts because you call it like it is. Example last year's playoff performance vs Florida.

 

[DarkKnight]

100% just don't be toxic about it. I respect your Marner posts because you call it like it is. Example last year's playoff performance vs Florida.

Yes I admit his faults, why can't the clown patrol admit his assets? Not you, but these guys just run him down routinely over everything, and really most of the "pumping" is just a check on that toxicity. Marner has let me down big time in the playoffs, my only point there as you agree, he isn't alone so I don't know why he gets most of the hate. Let's hope this is the year, lol.

 

[ACC1224]

Many have said Marner > Kutch, Marner best RWer in the league in the past.

As for the -2, it was one year. Look at the rest of his career. 4x100 points seasons. Not pacing for 100 point seasons. Let's not bring up hardware.

View attachment 845862

The NHL declared Marner the 1st Team All Star winger, not Leaf fans.
Yes, he has an impressive point total. Blows Matthews, Marner and Nylander out of the water.
I still don't see how the Leafs would have a Cup if you switched Kucherov and Marner.

I was initially listing Marner at #4 but Tkachuk broke 100 points a couple of times.

I went to post season, Marner has the slightly higher PT/game in the playoffs but Tkachuk has went further, you could say team/individual but in the end, I gave it to Tkachuk but you could make a case either way.

I guess it comes down to bias and preference. I prefer the better all around player but I get that some prefer points.

Yes I admit his faults, why can't the clown patrol admit his assets? Not you, but these guys just run him down routinely over everything, and really most of the "pumping" is just a check on that toxicity. Marner has let me down big time in the playoffs, my only point there as you agree, he isn't alone so I don't know why he gets most of the hate. Let's hope this is the year, lol.

That's always been the issue for Leaf fans.

 

[ToneDog]

Yes I admit his faults, why can't the clown patrol admit his assets? Not you, but these guys just run him down routinely over everything, and really most of the "pumping" is just a check on that toxicity. Marner has let me down big time in the playoffs, my only point there as you agree, he isn't alone so I don't know why he gets most of the hate. Let's hope this is the year, lol.

I think his contract negotiations did him no favours. Matty is teflon and many claim WIllie's playoff production falls off the least of the core 4. That leaves Tavares and Marner.

 

[Zybalto]

Some might argue Willie > Marner today. Not sure why he's mailed in the last couple of games when 100 points is almost a gimme.

Willy has been on the 2nd line which has been used as the matchup shutdown line against the Kucherov/Point line last night and Barkov/Reinhart the night before.

While its a shame he hasnt been able to grab a couple of points, 0 goals allowed and a +50% xGF in 14ish minutes against those top lines for his line is still a decent result IMO.

 

[ToneDog]

The NHL declared Marner the 1st Team All Star winger, not Leaf fans.
Yes, he has an impressive point total. Blows Matthews, Marner and Nylander out of the water.
I still don't see how the Leafs would have a Cup if you switched Kucherov and Marner.


I guess it comes down to bias and preference. I prefer the better all around player but I get that some prefer points.


That's always been the issue for Leaf fans.

Agreed we do not have anything close to the Hedman and Vasi that won cups.

 

[ACC1224]

Agreed we do not have anything close to the Hedman and Vasi that won cups.

Nor the Coach

 

[Zybalto]

Nor the Coach

Even if Cooper was our coach, it doesn't make a difference. I don't think he's whispering in Vasys ear helping him make all those 10 bellers to win him 2-1 and 1-0 wins in big playoff games and I don't think he'd put up some magic forcefield to stop all the shot side softies, 5 hole floaters and wild overplays from our goalies either.

What I'd like to see if our team with a top goalie. The fact Keefe has the highest winning % of any coach in history with more than 300 games played with Campbell and Samsonov as the main starters tells me we have something here.

 

[studebaker17]

He's able to play a more offensive focused style because of the Goalie and Defense.
His style is closer to Nylanders than Marners.

Offensively he's a high bred of both Marners and Nylanders best parts . He see's reads and passes like Marner but shoots and scores like Nylander . He brings an element of grit that neither of the Leafs have close to though.
Defensivley, like already stated , he's not near as good as Marner . Probably closer to Nylander is.

 

[ACC1224]

Even if Cooper was our coach, it doesn't make a difference. I don't think he's whispering in Vasys ear helping him make all those 10 bellers to win him 2-1 and 1-0 wins in big playoff games and I don't think he'd put up some magic forcefield to stop all the shot side softies, 5 hole floaters and wild overplays from our goalies either.

What I'd like to see if our team with a top goalie. The fact Keefe has the highest winning % of any coach in history with more than 300 games played with Campbell and Samsonov as the main starters tells me we have something here.

Not sure you'll find anyone to agree with that but this isn't the thread for it. I do agree that a good goalie can make a coach look good.

Offensively he's a high bred of both Marners and Nylanders best parts . He see's reads and passes like Marner but shoots and scores like Nylander . He brings an element of grit that neither of the Leafs have close to though.
Defensivley, like already stated , he's not near as good as Marner . Probably closer to Nylander is.

That's a good way to put it.

 

[QJo]

Because Matthews always shows up in big playoff games. I say two cups! This place is funny.

See you Saturday Marner, we need you. Suspect he starts on the second line, they’ve been really disjointed last two games.

Oddly placed sarcasm. I didn't say Matthews shows up. Winning the Cup might be a stretch because even the best team can fizzle out in the playoffs for several reasons. But if you don't think we'd have had more playoff success with that swap then just say so, or don't. Strange to try to trivialize an opinion that wasn't even argumentative with hyperbole.
If this place is funny it's because you can't put out an opinion without someone thinking the best way to disagree is by trying to make the other person look silly instead of just discussing.

 

[Zybalto]

Not sure you'll find anyone to agree with that but this isn't the thread for it. I do agree that a good goalie can make a coach look good.

There's a reason why it's such a stubborn old cliche.

Keeping with the thread a little more, how's this thought experiment:

You get first pick going into the playoffs, who do you pick?

Kucherov or Marner
Vasy or Campbell/Samsonov
Hedman or Rielly
Keefe or Cooper

I don't think the Marner, Keefe or even Rielly choices even get looked at. Just give me the first pick here and the other side can have the rest lol.

It's why I think all the crazy stuff against Marner in the playoffs is just so much white noise with the biggest reason we don't go on runs is staring us in the face.

 

[ACC1224]

There's a reason why it's such a stubborn old cliche.

Keeping with the thread a little more, how's this thought experiment:

You get first pick going into the playoffs, who do you pick?

Kucherov or Marner
Vasy or Campbell/Samsonov
Hedman or Rielly
Keefe or Cooper

I don't think the Marner, Keefe or even Rielly choices even get looked at. Just give me the first pick here and the other side can have the rest lol.

It's why I think all the crazy stuff against Marner in the playoffs is just so much white noise with the biggest reason we don't go on runs is staring us in the face.

Agreed.
If I were to rank them I'd have it,
Vasy or Campbell/Samsonov
Keefe or Cooper
Hedman or Rielly
Kucherov or Marner