Player Discussion Mitch Marner

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Even considering everything Marner has done to date, it still feels like the next two months is the most important stretch of his career. How he performs will have an impact on the decisions that both he and the front office make.
Marner can lay an egg this playoff and they are still re-signing him to $12.5 mil plus

Sundin hit? Matthews is a better hitter and defender than Sundin was and way better offensively.
Neither are overly physical but Sundin used his size much more to his advantage than Matthews. Way better offensively? No. Better? Perhaps. But Sundin in this era would put up huge numbers as well
 
Two simple yes or no questions, no explanations requested or required and we'll be done for now.

Does Marner have more value that Nylander?

Would you rather have Marner or Nylander on this team for the next decade.

Obviously I say yes to both.
Value wise it's close. Today I take Nylander, but only because he doesn't disappear after 86 games and I place a high premium on playoff performance. If Marner gets over that hump this spring, then I take him. I love Marner for 86 games, not sure what happens to him after that.

If Marner gets over the hump in these playoffs, I would love to have them both. If not, and he wants over 12 million to resign (which I assume is the case), then I'd rather move on from him.

Marner can lay an egg this playoff and they are still re-signing him to $12.5 mil plus

Neither are overly physical but Sundin used his size much more to his advantage than Matthews. Way better offensively? No. Better? Perhaps. But Sundin in this era would put up huge numbers as well
Yes, I predict Marner gets resigned for 12.5-12.9 no matter what he does from here on on. Unless he totally kills it in the playoffs, then maybe he demands more.

I with Matthews would use his body more.
 
Value wise it's close. Today I take Nylander, but only because he doesn't disappear after 86 games and I place a high premium on playoff performance. If Marner gets over that hump this spring, then I take him. I love Marner for 86 games, not sure what happens to him after that.

If Marner gets over the hump in these playoffs, I would love to have them both. If not, and he wants over 12 million to resign (which I assume is the case), then I'd rather move on from him.
I think that you are insane. You may have the last word but I probably won't read it.
 
Sundin hit? Matthews is a better hitter and defender than Sundin was and way better offensively.
No offence man but don't think you've watched Sundin enough. Matthews would not have done done what Sundin did with the linemates he had and the era in which he played in. Matthews would have turtled, he turtkes now in tough games in Mats day those games were played like that almost every game.
 
No offence man but don't think you've watched Sundin enough. Matthews would not have done done what Sundin did with the linemates he had and the era in which he played in. Matthews would have turtled, he turtkes now in tough games in Mats day those games were played like that almost every game.
Matthews is the superior player in every sense. I love Sundin as much as anyone, but do you remember what Bobby Holik did to him in the playoffs? That must be because Mats was a heartless, terrible leader (sarcasm)
 
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I think that you are insane. You may have the last word but I probably won't read it.
Seems a bit melodramatic, but OK. Marner falls off a cliff after 86 games, this has been going on for years and that's a pretty big issue for me. You don't seem to care which is pretty strange to me, I'll stop short of calling you insane though. Maybe you don't care about the playoffs as much as I co and that's fine, to each their own.

Enjoy the game tonight, hopefully we play better than we have in the last few games.
 
Sundin hit? Matthews is a better hitter and defender than Sundin was and way better offensively.

Sundin was just a big man who took up the appropriate space befitting his size, went the 200 feet going where he needed to and didn't hesitate to go through anyone, drive into traffic and those who got in his way felt it. He threw a hit here and there but obviously was no Lindros. Think of the way Leon Draisaitl takes up space or Mikko Rantanen battles in the corner. Defensively, the entire Dead Puck Era was more conservative, so it's hard to make the argument that Sundin was some defensive slob in an era when the game itself was not offensively oriented. I wouldn't say he was a Selke guy though.

Matthews dabbles in hitting, but I don't think that's really a core part of his game. He can truck anyone any time, but begs the question, why does it happen so infrequently?

Offensively, Sundin had his early career peak in 1993 before the league moved into a more defensively oriented league. 114 points with a young run and gun core in Quebec, that's still higher than anything our current core has ever managed. Of course Matthews is a better offensive player but Mats deserves the respect here too.
 
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Sundin hit? Matthews is a better hitter and defender than Sundin was and way better offensively.
You obviously are very young.

Sundin threw one of my favorite Leaf hits of all time and pretty much ended Brad May. I love Matthews, but Sundin is in a different stratosphere of toughness than Auston.

Edit. Ah shit this is the Marner thread...Hopefully he's ok . And his wife is hot.
 
Matthews is the superior player in every sense. I love Sundin as much as anyone, but do you remember what Bobby Holik did to him in the playoffs? That must be because Mats was a heartless, terrible leader (sarcasm)
Or what Danault did to Matthews and Danault is half the player Holik is, you are aware that Sundins playoffs stats with far less quality teammates are better then Matthew's, Matthew's would not be able to do what Sundin did in that era. Sundin would feast in this era
 
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Marner can lay an egg this playoff and they are still re-signing him to $12.5 mil plus


Neither are overly physical but Sundin used his size much more to his advantage than Matthews. Way better offensively? No. Better? Perhaps. But Sundin in this era would put up huge numbers as well
That seems to be a common opinion, but I think they’ll make a move if he has another stinker and they lose to Boston. If they play Florida, all that’s expected is to show up and give an effort.

Nylander has likely bought his plane ticket to the Worlds, so it’s really up to Marner on Mathew’s to carry the load
 
Elias Pettersson played with Kuzmenko and Mikheyev. Kaprizov plays mostly with Zuccarello and Rossi. Pasta's center is 40pt Zacha. If you are a game breaking forward you don't need other game breaking forwards to succeed and none of these other guys get Matthews with them on the pp. Willie really isn't that hard done by. Bert and JT work well with him, at least based on shots and he is the guy on the line that gets fed. Tavares is down maybe 6 or 8 goals from his typical pace so he is having a poor year but he isn't David Kampf:)


It's even better.

Pasta's center is 40pt left-wing Zacha. :DD

To Zachas credit he is very responsible defensively and transitioned to C well, but still.
 
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The haters seem to be bit touchy today.

Anyone not drinking Mitch Cool Aid is a hater in your eyes, but that's beside the point

You should thank them for the mildest profanity on the internet - ffs...

It allowed you to disregard the fact that Matthews is the best goal scorer in the league, anyone playing with him gets his share of assists.

Or the fact that JT is re-animated corpse at this stage of his hockey life


Funny, you talk about touchy, got touched by ffs :DD

The irony is strong with this one
 
Value wise it's close. Today I take Nylander, but only because he doesn't disappear after 86 games and I place a high premium on playoff performance. If Marner gets over that hump this spring, then I take him. I love Marner for 86 games, not sure what happens to him after that.

If Marner gets over the hump in these playoffs, I would love to have them both. If not, and he wants over 12 million to resign (which I assume is the case), then I'd rather move on from him.


Yes, I predict Marner gets resigned for 12.5-12.9 no matter what he does from here on on. Unless he totally kills it in the playoffs, then maybe he demands more.

I with Matthews would use his body more.
Facts Marner produces more in the playoffs then Nylander.

Marner is better by a large margin
 
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Facts Marner produces more in the playoffs then Nylander.

Marner is better by a large margin
If you're going to keep ignoring what I said, why bother responding?

No offence but it's hard to take you seriously when you say Marner "needs guys to finish for him".
 
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You obviously are very young.

Sundin threw one of my favorite Leaf hits of all time and pretty much ended Brad May. I love Matthews, but Sundin is in a different stratosphere of toughness than Auston.

Edit. Ah shit this is the Marner thread...Hopefully he's ok . And his wife is hot.

I watched Sundin’s entire career, he rarely hit at all, that was always one of his main criticisms considering his size. Matthews in the past several playoffs has hit far more often than Sundin did and played way better defensively than Sundin ever did. Just because he may have laid a couple big hits in his career does not erase that fact.
 
Pay attention tonight. You haters gonna see how much worse our offence looks without 16
 
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Sundin was just a big man who took up the appropriate space befitting his size, went the 200 feet going where he needed to and didn't hesitate to go through anyone, drive into traffic and those who got in his way felt it. He threw a hit here and there but obviously was no Lindros. Think of the way Leon Draisaitl takes up space or Mikko Rantanen battles in the corner. Defensively, the entire Dead Puck Era was more conservative, so it's hard to make the argument that Sundin was some defensive slob in an era when the game itself was not offensively oriented. I wouldn't say he was a Selke guy though.

Matthews dabbles in hitting, but I don't think that's really a core part of his game. He can truck anyone any time, but begs the question, why does it happen so infrequently?

Offensively, Sundin had his early career peak in 1993 before the league moved into a more defensively oriented league. 114 points with a young run and gun core in Quebec, that's still higher than anything our current core has ever managed. Of course Matthews is a better offensive player but Mats deserves the respect here too.

It’s not disrespectful to Sundin to refrain from making up stories to make him seem closer to Matthews as an overall player. 114 points in one of the highest scoring seasons of all-time on a run and gun team, that wasn’t even good for top 10 in points. Sundin was an amazing player and underrated in general considering how consistently he produced with lacklustre linemates (better even strength goal scorer than Joe Sakic in the dead puck era for instance) but you even said it yourself, he wasn’t physical and wasn’t known for his two-way game at all, although he was not lacking in playing a responsible game whatsoever and was capable of taking over games and scored in some big moments for us.
 
Pay attention tonight. You haters gonna see how much worse our offence looks without 16
You guys really need to stop with this "hater" nonsense. I'm pretty sure nobody hates any of our players and using idiotic polarizing terms such as "hater" makes it difficult to have an intelligent conversation.

The entire team hasn't looked great last few games, even with Marner so no need to stir up nonsense. Hopefully we see a better effort tonight, with or without Marner but no matter what happens, one game isn't going prove anything one way or the other.
 
You obviously are very young.

Sundin threw one of my favorite Leaf hits of all time and pretty much ended Brad May. I love Matthews, but Sundin is in a different stratosphere of toughness than Auston.

Edit. Ah shit this is the Marner thread...Hopefully he's ok . And his wife is hot.

We can all agree his wife is hot!

The way I see it, we have 90s hockey in the postseason (minus wooden sticks, something I can't even imagine Matthews using, considering his release). Why would anyone think Matthews would strive back then is beyond me.

He da best now, would probably chose baseball in 90s
 
Pay attention tonight. You haters gonna see how much worse our offence looks without 16
Haters obviously don’t pay attention, it what makes their view’s so hilarious.
 
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It’s not disrespectful to Sundin to refrain from making up stories to make him seem closer to Matthews as an overall player. 114 points in one of the highest scoring seasons of all-time on a run and gun team, that wasn’t even good for top 10 in points. Sundin was an amazing player and underrated in general considering how consistently he produced with lacklustre linemates (better even strength goal scorer than Joe Sakic in the dead puck era for instance) but you even said it yourself, he wasn’t physical and wasn’t known for his two-way game at all, although he was not lacking in playing a responsible game whatsoever and was capable of taking over games and scored in some big moments for us.

Oh please. We had 11x 100 point scorers in 2022-23, with the Art Ross winner scoring 153 points. Matthews didn't even get there. Marner didn't get there.

There are currently 3x 100 point scorers in the scoring race now, it's only March 9.

Between 1997 and 2004 there were 11x 100 scorers total. In 8 years of hockey.

Matthews and Marner are shaping up to be the greatest Maple Leafs in history, better than Sundin, I'll give you that. But why do they suck in the playoffs? If it's not a talent flaw, it's another kind of flaw. It sure as hell isn't luck.
 
Haters obviously don’t pay attention, it what makes their view’s so hilarious.
Speaking of paying attention, maybe you should take a look at the thread title. Why must you turn every Marner thread into grade 3 schoolyard nonsense?
 
Pay attention tonight. You haters gonna see how much worse our offence looks without 16
We’ve already seen it every time he’s been injured, look at our record.

Anyone see the play where he got injured?
 
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