Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Yet Again

[thewave]

Confirmed, you'd rather overpay Draisaitl than McDavid, interesting.

Assuming you had no issue with Matthews making more than McDavid since goals are all that matters, correct?



Reinhart was worse than Marner, but I guess people watch different things.

McDavid and Marner are also likely going to be bad together, they do the same thing.

I think Marner could replace Stone on that line but Reinhart looked lost, Point is what is helping them now, not moving Marner off that line.

No I mean compared to Marner not McDavid

 

[notbias]

I guess yeah. Reinhart's not really the best 3rd wheel piece for the line either. On a positive note yeah, there's certainly other places Marner can thrive and contribute in the lineup.

I think Marner looked good last game, mind you it was in a defensive role...

If they wanted a defensive 3rd line, I still think Crosby as the 3C with Marchand and Marner/Stone works better.

I hate the construction of this team, I feel like they messed it up by taking too many players like Cirelli or Bennett.

No clue how Scheifele is sitting at home.

Hockey Canada has been terrible at player selection recently and has tried to remove our strength of having insane firepower by taking too many role players.

I don't like how Crosby is playing wing either, but if you wanted to keep the top 6 how it is, the bottom 6 could have been a million times better by bringing Scheifele and rolling something like:

Hagel - Scheifele - Marner
Marchand - Cirelli - Konecny

The bottom 6 is just trying to play 50/50 hockey it seems.

Somehow they have made the forward group comparable to the US just by how they are setting up the lines and their choice of bringing in a bottom 6 that looks similar.

No I mean compared to Marner not McDavid

So more goals are only sometimes more important? Not following...

 

[hamzarocks]

He's currently the second highest goal scorer this season

I have never and never will give a shit about only goals or assists

Focusing on that would make it seem OV > Crosby

Matthews > Mack/Kuch/Drai or even Mcdavid by some here

At 11.5M you cant be a 28th in league scoring and 37th in ppg

He needs to be a lot better and if Marner leaves he will feel the pressure ten fold.

Even this tourney he has 1 pt in 2 games so he hasnt lit it up so far.

Nylander if he wants to ve FMV at 11.5M needs to be a 105-115 pt player like Pastranak has been past three years with little help.

He should be pacing for 100 still even if you think his linemates arent good enough.

Pasta does it, Kaprizov has done it before.

Back to marner though 11-12% of 95.5M max for him

 

[ULF_55]

I have never and never will give a shit about only goals or assists

Focusing on that would make it seem OV > Crosby

Matthews > Mack/Kuch/Drai or even Mcdavid by some here

At 11.5M you cant be a 28th in league scoring and 37th in ppg

He needs to be a lot better and if Marner leaves he will feel the pressure ten fold.

Even this tourney he has 1 pt in 2 games so he hasnt lit it up so far.

Nylander if he wants to ve FMV at 11.5M needs to be a 105-115 pt player like Pastranak has been oast three years with little help.

He should be pacing for 100 still even if you think his linemates arent good enough.

Pasta does it, Kaprizov has done it before.

Bacj to marner thouvh 11-12% of 95.5M max for him

Yes, if marner leaves they'll spend the money on other players not leave $13mm unused.

If marner goes elsewhere the lines will not be the same as they are today.

If marner takes his entourage to another city, Matthews will need a RW.

 

[hamzarocks]

Yes, if marner leaves they'll spend the money on other players not leave $13mm unused.

If marner goes elsewhere the lines will not be the same as they are today.

If marner takes his entourage to another city, Matthews will need a RW.

Nylander will get L1 then so he wpnt have any further excuses

Ehlers or Boesor can be targetted for L2

 

[Antropovsky]

WOnt derail this thread but for me that excuse wont ever ne justifable for a 11.5M AAV player putting ppg

It wasnt good enough when tavares at 11M was a 75-80 pt player and it isnt for nylander either.

Marner needs to be at low cap% then Nylander is my takeaway.

Marner at nylanders cap % is 12.48M which is too much

Nylander is at a ppg while playing 180 mins with Patches and Tavares and the rest with 3rd and 4th liners.

That is pretty damn good and the life of his contract he was paid reasonably with respect to other players, playing in Canada and with respect to his play (7 million/6 years and 11.5 million/7 years). Considering the jump the cap.is expected to make.

Nylander negotiations wouldve been a whole lot different this past season if he was Marner with Ferris. They likely have held out saying that Nylander was significantly underpaid with respect to Marner and Matthews and thus should be paid more to make up for the cut he took on the last 6 years. Of course because he should use teammates as comparables and not other players around the league... he wouldve wanted to be somewhere around 13x8 I'm sure.

Recall these were the arguments Ferris used on Marners last negotiations. That Marner missed out on a performance bonus because of Lou (that should be repaid), and he should be paid more or as much as his teammates Matthews and Tavares.

 

[ToneDog]

The funny thing is Nylander hasnt shown to be worth what AAV % he got since signing. Only 55 pts in 55 games this yesr.

Ppg play should not get that high AAV %.

Nylander got underpaid over his last 5 years of previous deal while Marner got overpaid.

If Marner wants to show hes serious he needs to come in at 10.5M-11.5M at max

10.5M /95.5 = ~11%

11.5M /95.5 = ~12 %

He should come in between 11-12% of 95.5M 2025-2026 projected cap.

Nylander got 2% too much at 11.5M /88M (2025 cap) = ~13%

Not happening. The Leafs would give him $13m today but he is too greedy and too stupid to take it.

 

[Antropovsky]

Certainly a lot less worried about the 2nd in the league goal scorer that the coach moves around the lineup and weirdly pets like a dog and then goes back and pats on the shoulder.

I know it's nothing but made laugh. If I had to overpay one, it's the top 5 goal scorer

Nylander also looks like a star. He's averaging what 2 breakaways a game? I don't know if Marner has 2 all year.

Call it jumping the zone but it's also been Matthews and Marners go to play for a couple years.

 

[Stephen]

You know, not many guys get the privilege of playing beside McDavid. Marner really did not make the best of it at all. Like go to the f***ing net or something, he refused to change anything about his game to try and mesh better with McDavid. Brayden Point gets on the McDavid line and he scores almost instantly.

What's unfortunate about the Marner 4 Nations experience is he went from having the second highest ice time vs Sweden, scored the game winner, then had the second highest ice time vs USA on Saturday among Canadian forwards to the second least ice time in front of only Travis-Shouldn't-Be-Here-Konecny. That with Cooper singing his praises all weekend. It's a short tournament, and you make adjustments on the fly, but to basically be benched in what was a 4-0 game. It's illuminating on how his quality of play took a nosedive. This happens all the time on the Leafs too, but usually with no repercussions.

 

[ToneDog]

What's unfortunate about the Marner 4 Nations experience is he went from having the second highest ice time vs Sweden, scored the game winner, then had the second highest ice time vs USA on Saturday among Canadian forwards to the second least ice time in front of only Travis-Shouldn't-Be-Here-Konecny. That with Cooper singing his praises all weekend. It's a short tournament, and you make adjustments on the fly, but to basically be benched in what was a 4-0 game. It's illuminating on how his quality of play took a nosedive. This happens all the time on the Leafs too, but usually with no repercussions.

Are you surprised because many of us are not. History repeating itself.

 

[arso40]

I have never and never will give a shit about only goals or assists

Focusing on that would make it seem OV > Crosby

Matthews > Mack/Kuch/Drai or even Mcdavid by some here

At 11.5M you cant be a 28th in league scoring and 37th in ppg

He needs to be a lot better and if Marner leaves he will feel the pressure ten fold.

Even this tourney he has 1 pt in 2 games so he hasnt lit it up so far.

Nylander if he wants to ve FMV at 11.5M needs to be a 105-115 pt player like Pastranak has been past three years with little help.

He should be pacing for 100 still even if you think his linemates arent good enough.

Pasta does it, Kaprizov has done it before.

Back to marner though 11-12% of 95.5M max for him

If marner leaves he’ll get more opportunity seems like the only one that can do something with it

 

[Stephen]

Are you surprised because many of us are not. History repeating itself.

Marner's a high ceiling, low floor player who can look like a magician one night and a finger painter the next. I'm not surprised but Cooper's big adjustment just tells you things are not going well with him.

 

[arso40]

What's unfortunate about the Marner 4 Nations experience is he went from having the second highest ice time vs Sweden, scored the game winner, then had the second highest ice time vs USA on Saturday among Canadian forwards to the second least ice time in front of only Travis-Shouldn't-Be-Here-Konecny. That with Cooper singing his praises all weekend. It's a short tournament, and you make adjustments on the fly, but to basically be benched in what was a 4-0 game. It's illuminating on how his quality of play took a nosedive. This happens all the time on the Leafs too, but usually with no repercussions.

And spreading out the time is bs as a defensive line he should have been out there more protecting the lead

 

[Antropovsky]

Not happening. The Leafs would give him $13m today but he is too greedy and too stupid to take it.

Feels a bit like the TV game "Deal or no deal"

If he doesn't do anything in the CAN vs USA final, and plays lowest mins again you have to think that the 3rd highest briefcase comes off the board. The million dollar briefcase will be still there depending on how he does and leafs do in the playoffs this year, but there certainly is some lower briefcases on the board too.

The bottom ones are likely gone though, because some team is certainly gonna look at his point totals and be willing to pay him and use his Leaf celebrity to sell tickets and hope that he just needs to play away from the spotlight.

 

[Stephen]

And spreading out the time is bs as a defensive line he should have been out there more protecting the lead

I mean, for reference 12 minutes of playing time is David Kampf territory. So if someone tried to make the argument that Marner was put into a defensive specialist role and got commensurate ice time, okay I can accept that, but are they willing to concede Marner was Team Canada's David Kampf today?

 

[Funk21]

Let’s stop beating around the bush. Marner is not a big game player…Full stop. He isn’t worth 12.5 or 13 million his team is looking for. Dubas really screwed us on him and Tre and the Brass didn’t do enough to find a trade partner when we could have dealt him. If he walks away for nothing I think that’s a fireable offence.

Shrinking violets.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I think Marner looked good last game, mind you it was in a defensive role...

If they wanted a defensive 3rd line, I still think Crosby as the 3C with Marchand and Marner/Stone works better.

I hate the construction of this team, I feel like they messed it up by taking too many players like Cirelli or Bennett.

No clue how Scheifele is sitting at home.

Hockey Canada has been terrible at player selection recently and has tried to remove our strength of having insane firepower by taking too many role players.

I don't like how Crosby is playing wing either, but if you wanted to keep the top 6 how it is, the bottom 6 could have been a million times better by bringing Scheifele and rolling something like:

Hagel - Scheifele - Marner
Marchand - Cirelli - Konecny

The bottom 6 is just trying to play 50/50 hockey it seems.

Somehow they have made the forward group comparable to the US just by how they are setting up the lines and their choice of bringing in a bottom 6 that looks similar.



So more goals are only sometimes more important? Not following...

Obviously. It depends who scores them.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I mean, for reference 12 minutes of playing time is David Kampf territory. So if someone tried to make the argument that Marner was put into a defensive specialist role and got commensurate ice time, okay I can accept that, but are they willing to concede Marner was Team Canada's David Kampf today?

Sure, ice time and role means a lot. Marner had the second lowest ice time today. That indicates to me that Marner wasn't going today. He had the second highest time on ice for the first two games. Reinhart had the most ice time.

 

[CelticDruid]

Let’s stop beating around the bush. Marner is not a big game player…Full stop. He isn’t worth 12.5 or 13 million his team is looking for. Dubas really screwed us on him and Tre and the Brass didn’t do enough to find a trade partner when we could have dealt him. If he walks away for nothing I think that’s a fireable offence.

Shrinking violets.

Just a big pass on Marner.

 

[francis246]

Of course, he would LOVE to have him re-signed in Toronto. Similar to Marchand talking about how good Marner is, anything to get the Leafs to overpay. lol.

These guys are winners, they are always playing 3D chess.

Some of you, are just outrageous. This place has honestly gone to shit.

It’s not even quality posts anymore, just baseless speculation.

 

[thewave]

Some of you, are just outrageous. This place has honestly gone to shit.

It’s not even quality posts anymore, just baseless speculation.

You know what the best pass that Marner could make going forward is? The pass on the 13m contract they allegedly offered him. Talk about dodging a bullet whewwwweeee

 

[Apex Predator]

Some of you, are just outrageous. This place has honestly gone to shit.

It’s not even quality posts anymore, just baseless speculation.

It’s a frustrated fan base that has turned on Marner. I think Matthews up till this year has been getting away with murder. He should be getting a lot more heat than he receives.

 

[francis246]

You know, not many guys get the privilege of playing beside McDavid. Marner really did not make the best of it at all. Like go to the f***ing net or something, he refused to change anything about his game to try and mesh better with McDavid. Brayden Point gets on the McDavid line and he scores almost instantly.

I honestly think you’re just reading way too much into it. Some players gel and some players don’t. Marner is a puck dominant player. If he doesn’t have the puck, he’s not going to be as effective. Same with Reinhart, Reinhart likes to create his own shots. Those two were not the right fits for McDavid. McDavid plays fast and needs guys who can gain the zone fast and drive the net and clean up rebounds. That’s not Reinhart or Marner’s game and never has been. It was never a fit.

Against the USA, McDavid wasn’t even looking to pass. He just gained the zone and tried to be a hero. Today even with his own goal. The guy looked off his teammates, froze the goalie and placed a beautiful shot. It’s extremely difficult to play with McDavid if you are also a puck dominant player cause you ain’t touching the puck until he dictates you are.

That being said it’s on Marner and Reinhart to fight for a space in front of the net and adapt.

 

[Confucius]

It’s a frustrated fan base that has turned on Marner. I think Matthews up till this year has been getting away with murder. He should be getting a lot more heat than he receives.

Mathews has done well in past seasons, Hart, Lindsay, 3 rockets, Calder. what awards has any of the other Leafs received?

 

[francis246]

It’s a frustrated fan base that has turned on Marner. I think Matthews up till this year has been getting away with murder. He should be getting a lot more heat than he receives.

It’s not even fun to be on here anymore. It’s constant negativity. No constructive criticism, no reasonable takes. Just personal shots. It sucks, what a fall from grace this place used to be. A big part of me honestly hopes Marner walks or something. Cause I wanna see where the anger gets directed to next.

Bennett at 7 or 8 million is gonna be a treat lmao!’