Mitch Marner "waiting for something good from you" edition part III

[Stephen]

Again I think a lot of this has to do with teams just learning and figuring out how to stop him. He still has hands but D men don't overpressure him anymore the way they used to when he was younger. He's one dimensional and teams have caught on. IMO the best he looked was with Kadri and then that first year of Tavares, even has his point production has gone up since I attribute that more to growth from Matthews / improvements around the roster, to me he doesn't look like he has any of the magic he used to play with in his first two years especially

I mean personally I wanted him traded this summer, not a fan of the guy personally and didn't like the contract from day one, but while he's here I'm going to cheer him on and wish the best for him, but I just don't think he's got enough going for him mentally to live up to his potential

Marner's already lived up to his potential. Just because you're a 90 point capable guy and first team All-Star doesn't necessarily mean you have those extra gears to be a superstar in the playoffs. Remember when the 2000s Ottawa Senators would skate circles around the Leafs, and yet they never beat us playing their soft skilled offensive game and never got over the championship hump. I just tend to think the Marner in tears in the penalty box vs Montreal is probably closer to the career average than expecting some Ryan O'Reilly to emerge with just enough love, water and sunshine.

 

[Stephen]

Getting crushed from the weight of the contract. Needs to be traded for Eichel, then next year we have a good team.

Maybe talk a team into Marner for the Shane Wright pick. Yashin for the Spezza pick all over again.

 

[IPS]

You can deflect Marner’s contract onto dubas because that’s his fault. But you can’t deflect his bad play onto dubas. The kid is playing so f***ing soft out there it’s not even funny. And it’s really not funny at all when he’s not putting up any points.. and god was he so f***in arrogant and condescending towards those reporters the other day. Shut your f***in mouth until you’re actually back up to par kid.. you have no right to talk like that with the disgrace of a series you put out against the Habs last year.

 

[JT Kreider]

His startling lack of creativity and effort made me wonder what the hell happened to this kid? Look at this video compared to the shell of what's floating out there 22 minutes a game nowadays.


It truly looks as if he's mentally checked out, and no longer wants to play hockey anymore. I'm fearful if it continues we're gonna have a Drouin situation on our hands

I'll tell you exactly what happened to him.

He got infected with the John Tavares syndrome---- put up as much points as possible while also putting in as little effort as possible. I saw it Tavares entire career here in NY and even as a Rangers fan he was a maddening player to watch. He could put up 3 points in a game and yet you would still come away feeling like he was capable of a whole lot more if he just crossed that line.

You are right Marner was such a buzzsaw on the ice his first two seasons and was doing it all even beyond offensively. He is a shell of that player and the biggest condemnation against him is that he is now softer on the puck than he was as a rookie.

 

[killer1980]

You can deflect Marner’s contract onto dubas because that’s his fault. But you can’t deflect his bad play onto dubas. The kid is playing so f***ing soft out there it’s not even funny. And it’s really not funny at all when he’s not putting up any points.. and god was he so f***in arrogant and condescending towards those reporters the other day. Shut your f***in mouth until you’re actually back up to par kid.. you have no right to talk like that with the disgrace of a series you put out against the Habs last year.

Actually, I think it is pretty funny. Some of us, not many, predicted this exact outcome. That my friend is all on Dubas. Marner is what he is and that is what the GM is supposed to figure out before he opens the vault.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Marner's already lived up to his potential. Just because you're a 90 point capable guy and first team All-Star doesn't necessarily mean you have those extra gears to be a superstar in the playoffs. Remember when the 2000s Ottawa Senators would skate circles around the Leafs, and yet they never beat us playing their soft skilled offensive game and never got over the championship hump. I just tend to think the Marner in tears in the penalty box vs Montreal is probably closer to the career average than expecting some Ryan O'Reilly to emerge with just enough love, water and sunshine.

If Marner in tears is closer to his career average, then that only proves my point that he is not living up to his potential. But if you're point is that this is what Marner is at this point, I'm inclined to agree. But in an alternate timeline a Mitch Marner with the exact same hockey skills and a better mindset IMO could be a superstar.
No matter how bad he is playing right now, this is still one of the most talented players I have ever seen play hockey. But for many reasons, he can't put it all together to be the player he could have been. IMO he was doomed when he signed that contract, he was never going to live up to that and I don't think he's not a guy who thrives under that sort of pressure, he's better when he's an underdog. Still, I don't really like Marner, if this season/playoffs plays out poorly, I seriously hope he's the guy who gets moved and not Nylander.

 

[Stephen]

You can deflect Marner’s contract onto dubas because that’s his fault. But you can’t deflect his bad play onto dubas. The kid is playing so f***ing soft out there it’s not even funny. And it’s really not funny at all when he’s not putting up any points.. and god was he so f***in arrogant and condescending towards those reporters the other day. Shut your f***in mouth until you’re actually back up to par kid.. you have no right to talk like that with the disgrace of a series you put out against the Habs last year.

I think the whole organization is on the hook for putting their resources and trust into Marner, but it is ultimately Marner's fault if his game goes completely off the rails and he's been so unwilling to change his game.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Actually, I think it is pretty funny. Some of us, not many, predicted this exact outcome. That my friend is all on Dubas. Marner is what he is and that is what the GM is supposed to figure out before he opens the vault.

can’t believe mlse and shanny hired a guy who was supposed to be a part time AHL guy and part time Barista at your local hipster cappuccino joint. Dubas got fleeced by the Marner family…

we will miss our playoffs this year…
Marner will have ptsd from the boos.
His family will forever be known as the pariah black sheep folk that stained the Matthews era.

we can only dream now, what was once a wide open window filled with hope optimism and warm fuzzy feelings, is now a narrowing window almost at its latched edge - doubt, melancholy, and the urge to watch the Raptors instead.

Hope for the best….
But prepared for the worst

 

[Oscar Peterson]

You can deflect Marner’s contract onto dubas because that’s his fault. But you can’t deflect his bad play onto dubas. The kid is playing so f***ing soft out there it’s not even funny. And it’s really not funny at all when he’s not putting up any points.. and god was he so f***in arrogant and condescending towards those reporters the other day. Shut your f***in mouth until you’re actually back up to par kid.. you have no right to talk like that with the disgrace of a series you put out against the Habs last year.

Hate to say it but arrogant and condescending are pretty par for the course with him and it holds him back.

A couple years ago when Mitch was still somewhat of a golden boy on these boards, I posted about how my younger brother had been working out alongside him that off-season and a handful of other times. I asked my bro if he talked to Mitch at all and he told me he tried to but he was very dismissive and generally a bit of a douchebag lol. This was before the contract negotiations, safe to say as big of a fan of hockey player Mitch that I have been, I can't say I'm in anyway surprised about the way things have played out for him

 

[Stephen]

If Marner in tears is closer to his career average, then that only proves my point that he is not living up to his potential. But if you're point is that this is what Marner is at this point, I'm inclined to agree. But in an alternate timeline a Mitch Marner with the exact same hockey skills and a better mindset IMO could be a superstar.
No matter how bad he is playing right now, this is still one of the most talented players I have ever seen play hockey. But for many reasons, he can't put it all together to be the player he could have been. IMO he was doomed when he signed that contract, he was never going to live up to that and I don't think he's not a guy who thrives under that sort of pressure, he's better when he's an underdog. Still, I don't really like Marner, if this season/playoffs plays out poorly, I seriously hope he's the guy who gets moved and not Nylander.

Marner is a superstar. A 5 game scoring drought on top of the Montreal series doesn't take away from what he's accomplished over his career. But that also doesn't mean he has endless untapped potential to carry a team through four rounds. Out of the Big 4, I wish we can regroup and build around Matthews and Nylander and would be happy to see Tavares go first and then Marner as well.

 

[Canadian Finn]

Hate to say it but arrogant and condescending are pretty par for the course with him and it holds him back.

A couple years ago when Mitch was still somewhat of a golden boy on these boards, I posted about how my younger brother had been working out alongside him that off-season and a handful of other times. I asked my bro if he talked to Mitch at all and he told me he tried to but he was very dismissive and generally a bit of a douchebag lol. This was before the contract negotiations, safe to say as big of a fan of hockey player Mitch that I have been, I can't say I'm in anyway surprised about the way things have played out for him

it's cause little mitchey had a tough childhood and upbringing. the silver spoon in his mouth was bright and shiny.

now it's tarnished.

 

[Aashir]

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. He's just like his old man.

I thought this was what nylander was supposed to be

 

[CycloneSweep]

Would it make sense to have Marner play away from Matthews more? Sometimes I’ve noticed players when playing with a goal scorer of Matthews calibre or a player of that calibre almost waste their abilities cause they are consistently deferring or doing what they can to get them the puck. So they aren’t playing their game they are just over thinking. Do you think a like change could help Marner there?

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Marner is a superstar. A 5 game scoring drought on top of the Montreal series doesn't take away from what he's accomplished over his career. But that also doesn't mean he has endless untapped potential to carry a team through four rounds. Out of the Big 4, I wish we can regroup and build around Matthews and Nylander and would be happy to see Tavares go first and then Marner as well.

I don't think he's a superstar, I've never thought he is in the same category as Matthews and I don't think his impact has ever lined up with his production.
You also seem to be putting words in my mouth, not sure where I said he has "endless untapped potential that can carry a team through four rounds", but he certainly has enough hockey ability to be far, far better than he was in last year's playoffs where he wasn't capitalizing on good shooting attempts, was forcing crazy passing plays instead of going for the direct option, trying to go for fancy stickhandles and dangles at times when he needed to keep it simple stupid. If you couldn't see that last playoffs and thought he played like a superstar, then not sure what to tell you

 

[Oscar Peterson]

I thought this was what nylander was supposed to be

It's made like that in the media all the time, but by all accounts Nylander is a good kid who works hard who clearly just needed to grow up and mature to be his best self

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It is gonna happen very soon where Mitch gets boooooed .. da strategy to bulk him up and try to increase his strength was pretty stupid .. people who don't understand strength will think it was a good idea but a guy is either strong or not innately .. Mitch is not strong .. he needed to stay light and quicker on his edges .. his straight line skating speed deficiencies are due to his short choppy stride .. another complete screw up on that one but he continues to rely on his own skating coach which is another mistake .. he needs to go back to losing that extra muscle which only slowed him down a bit .. better diet and riding bike like a fien needs to happen NOW .. but it won't be a quick fix even starting today onwards it will take a couple months to get him back

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Marner is a superstar. A 5 game scoring drought on top of the Montreal series doesn't take away from what he's accomplished over his career. But that also doesn't mean he has endless untapped potential to carry a team through four rounds. Out of the Big 4, I wish we can regroup and build around Matthews and Nylander and would be happy to see Tavares go first and then Marner as well.

I agree.

seems like as these young guys age.

Nylander who has a tendency of being complacent before has now honed his skill of pouncing on plays at the right time. His frame is now starting to fill out and he is heavy on the puck now.

Marner on the other hand, Only had his unorthodox shifty skating and passing. Once the league figured him out, and realized a guy like Marchand can use one hand and push him off the puck. It was game over.

Matthews is Matthews… he can use a Hyman. heck Mcdavid is now using a Hyman.

Wow Dubas keeping Marner over Hyman is a lmao.

babcock was so right the management needs to be shipped to the moon.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I agree.

seems like as these young guys age.

Nylander who has a tendency of being complacent before has now honed his skill of pouncing on plays at the right time. His frame is now starting to fill out and he is heavy on the puck now.

Marner on the other hand, Only had his unorthodox shifty skating and passing. Once the league figured him out, and realized a guy like Marchand can use one hand and push him off the puck. It was game over.

Matthews is Matthews… he can use a Hyman. heck Mcdavid is now using a Hyman.

Wow Dubas keeping Marner over Hyman is a lmao.

babcock was so right the management needs to be shipped to the moon.

Babs had his own issues .. his days and approach to game will never work in today's game .. it is stuff of relic .. and TBH da issues with this team are recruitment and salary issues .. although some coaching issues too

 

[TOGuy14]

Marner is a superstar. A 5 game scoring drought on top of the Montreal series doesn't take away from what he's accomplished over his career. But that also doesn't mean he has endless untapped potential to carry a team through four rounds. Out of the Big 4, I wish we can regroup and build around Matthews and Nylander and would be happy to see Tavares go first and then Marner as well.

true superstars don’t go on frequent prolonged droughts.

it’s a big deal when McDavid doesn’t have a multipoint game every 2-3 games and we are defunding Marner for being totally useless for five games now, the entire playoffs last season, and our PP last year.

real stars create their own chances and carry a line. He’s an 11m passenger

 

[Stephen]

Babs had his own issues .. his days and approach to game will never work in today's game .. it is stuff of relic .. and TBH da issues with this team are recruitment and salary issues .. although some coaching issues too

I don't think there's anything especially outdated about Babcock's game if he had the right roster, but I don't think he would be a solution to his group either. It's one thing to diagnose problems (we can see them from the couch) but another to fix them.

 

[stickty111]

I thought this was what nylander was supposed to be

That was media and fan driven that Nylander was lazy and didn't care. Nylander is a gym rat who works on his game like crazy. Every time he was ignored by the previous coach, all he did was come out better and not make excuses. Nylander deserves way better then this team.

Exactly the opposite attitude from Mitch. Lets not forget, apparently Marner and his family were tough to deal with even when he was in minor midgit.

 

[Stephen]

true superstars don’t go on frequent prolonged droughts.

it’s a big deal when McDavid doesn’t have a multipoint game every 2-3 games and we are defunding Marner for being totally useless for five games now, the entire playoffs last season, and our PP last year.

real stars create their own chances and carry a line. He’s an 11m passenger

I don't care to debate labels, other than to say he's neither 1 point in 5 games bad nor a future Conn Smythe candidate but definitely among the leagues superstar players. I don't mind of the organization moves on from him if we get the right return and use the cap space properly in the medium term, but while he's here, for a guy whose bread and butter is glamorous offensive numbers, maybe this humble pie will be good for him.

 

[Stephen]

Would it make sense to have Marner play away from Matthews more? Sometimes I’ve noticed players when playing with a goal scorer of Matthews calibre or a player of that calibre almost waste their abilities cause they are consistently deferring or doing what they can to get them the puck. So they aren’t playing their game they are just over thinking. Do you think a like change could help Marner there?

I would just put Matthews and Nylander back together for now, get 34 up and running and write off the Tavares and Marner second line as a time waster.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I don't think there's anything especially outdated about Babcock's game if he had the right roster, but I don't think he would be a solution to his group either. It's one thing to diagnose problems (we can see them from the couch) but another to fix them.

Babs was a perimeter coach too .. and had a much too soft approach to recruitment too .. we need more of an old line hockey guy who believes in flat out speed 1st, compete/strength for puck 2nd, size and toughness 3rd and then as much skill as you can get in a guy who has 1st 3 characteristics .. and you only need 2/3 skill guys max on any pro team to build a winner .. if you can get 5 of those types then you are a Cup contender .. we are a skill based team with way too many of same type of guy due to Dubie/Shanny .. and Ritchie and Wayner are fine on that type of team too .. you need HEAVY'S to properly police a game .. they don't have to fight much anymore but they need to be on 4th line on bench and get a few shifts where they run around a scare people

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

That was media and fan driven that Nylander was lazy and didn't care. Nylander is a gym rat who works on his game like crazy. Every time he was ignored by the previous coach, all he did was come out better and not make excuses. Nylander deserves way better then this team.

Exactly the opposite attitude from Mitch. Lets not forget, apparently Marner and his family were tough to deal with even when he was in minor midgit.

It's crazy how things stick. Even though Nylander was always a first in last out guy, his pre draft stock of being a lazy diva really stuck with him. The holdout and how he played afterwards really sunk him in Leaf Land. I look back now and it's crazy to see people cheering for him now vs 2-3 years ago when people had their pitchforks ready to drive him to the airport themselves.

All we can hope is that Marner has that same resurgence. You're completely right, Nylander honed his craft and even after the wave after wave of sludge leaf land and the media gave him he came out a stronger, better man. Marner is getting it pretty tough right now. For the sake of the Toronto Maple Leafs I hope he can take it and come out better for it. If we get regular season Marner in the Playoffs we can actually do some damage. He's got to try and cut out the noise and just focus on being the superstar his 10.9M contract demands he be.