Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

[ACC1224]

I think it's the other way around - if a teammate scores 60, he may get 120 points.

What if Matty or Willy score 60, but Mitch is playing with JT?

You can come up with all kinds of scenarios. I was just thinking of the most common one.

Couple seasons ago he paced close to that( around 110 I think), I don’t recall if he played more with Matthews or Tavares that season.

 

[Antropovsky]

I think it's the other way around - if a teammate scores 60, he may get 120 points.

What if Matty or Willy score 60, but Mitch is playing with JT?

A linemate of his already scored 60 in a season and he didn't break 100 points. Why will he suddenly put up 23% more points if a linemate hits 60 for a second time?

 

[Stephen]

I like where Marner slots on the pecking order with Matthews and Willie starting the season hot and looking strong carrying the play. Things get topsy turvy in the playoffs when we're running Co-Batman's in Matthews and Marner, never really like how the Leafs cup runs are tied directly to Marner's nerves, big game pressure, maturity.

But I like the look and feel of Matthews separating himself as lead dog and then Marner and Nylander drawing closer to parity as co number 2's.

Tavares has looked pretty good to start the year but I'm less inclined to expect massive 5 on 5 carry the team contributions from him and just hoping for good energy, healthy PP based stats and just be effective.

 

[ACC1224]

I like where Marner slots on the pecking order with Matthews and Willie starting the season hot and looking strong carrying the play. Things get topsy turvy in the playoffs when we're running Co-Batman's in Matthews and Marner, never really like how the Leafs cup runs are tied directly to Marner's nerves, big game pressure, maturity.

But I like the look and feel of Matthews separating himself as lead dog and then Marner and Nylander drawing closer to parity as co number 2's.

Tavares has looked pretty good to start the year but I'm less inclined to expect massive 5 on 5 carry the team contributions from him and just hoping for good energy, healthy PP based stats and just be effective.

With Matthews improving his defensive game, he’s widen the gap between the two a bit more no doubt.

 

[francis246]

I like where Marner slots on the pecking order with Matthews and Willie starting the season hot and looking strong carrying the play. Things get topsy turvy in the playoffs when we're running Co-Batman's in Matthews and Marner, never really like how the Leafs cup runs are tied directly to Marner's nerves, big game pressure, maturity.

But I like the look and feel of Matthews separating himself as lead dog and then Marner and Nylander drawing closer to parity as co number 2's.

Tavares has looked pretty good to start the year but I'm less inclined to expect massive 5 on 5 carry the team contributions from him and just hoping for good energy, healthy PP based stats and just be effective.

This is why I’ve been adamant in the playoffs Marner and Matthews cannot play together. You kind of see Marner rub off on Matthews and they both get out of wack. I think Matthews and Nylander should be the duo we lean on offensively in the playoffs. Put Mitch with JT and let them take advantage of weaker match ups. At some point you have to sit the two down and explain that we all know they wanna play together but it’s better for them to be separated

 

[ACC1224]

This is why I’ve been adamant in the playoffs Marner and Matthews cannot play together. You kind of see Marner rub off on Matthews and they both get out of wack. I think Matthews and Nylander should be the duo we lean on offensively in the playoffs. Put Mitch with JT and let them take advantage of weaker match ups. At some point you have to sit the two down and explain that we all know they wanna play together but it’s better for them to be separated

Either will play anywhere in the lineup they are slotted. Seems a bit of an urban legend that they dictate the lines.

 

[francis246]

Either will play anywhere in the lineup they are slotted. Seems a bit of an urban legend that they dictate the lines.

I don’t think they dictate, keefe ultimately makes the decision but I think everyone knows they want to play together and prefer to play together.

 

[ACC1224]

I don’t think they dictate, keefe ultimately makes the decision but I think everyone knows they want to play together and prefer to play together.

Sure, who doesn't want to play with great players?

 

[67leafs]

Marner will be a ghost in the playoffs…..mark my words.

 

[francis246]

Sure, who doesn't want to play with great players?

100%, not a bad thing at all. I just think if they are split at home at least we can take advantage of that. I just think back to the earlier years when we had 3 legit scoring lines.

 

[ACC1224]

Marner will be a ghost in the playoffs…..mark my words.

Game 4 of 82 tonight. Why not save the Grump Worsley act for the playoffs?

100%, not a bad thing at all. I just think if they are split at home at least we can take advantage of that. I just think back to the earlier years when we had 3 legit scoring lines.

I like this for the top 2. (copied from another thread)

Knies Matthews Nylander
Bertuzzi Tavares Marner

 

[Stephen]

This is why I’ve been adamant in the playoffs Marner and Matthews cannot play together. You kind of see Marner rub off on Matthews and they both get out of wack. I think Matthews and Nylander should be the duo we lean on offensively in the playoffs. Put Mitch with JT and let them take advantage of weaker match ups. At some point you have to sit the two down and explain that we all know they wanna play together but it’s better for them to be separated

I don’t think they need to be separated on the ice together necessarily, but I think the Leafs would benefit from Matthews taking a step forward as the lead dog, Marner takes a step back on the hierarchy (only to alleviate the burden he seems to feel) and Nylander draws close to Marner so they’re co-number 2 guys. Like I always say, just separate the Leafs playoff mission storyline from the Marner come up story.

 

[francis246]

I don’t think they need to be separated on the ice together necessarily, but I think the Leafs would benefit from Matthews taking a step forward as the lead dog, Marner takes a step back on the hierarchy (only to alleviate the burden he seems to feel) and Nylander draws close to Marner so they’re co-number 2 guys. Like I always say, just separate the Leafs playoff mission storyline from the Marner come up story.

I personally think Matthews and Nylander is a better duo and JT and Marner play better together. I’m not sure the data supports it though. But I completely agree, I’ve never understood why Marner’s performance is used as the baseline for the Maple Leafs playoff push.

 

[67leafs]

Game 4 of 82 tonight. Why not save the Grump Worsley act for the playoffs?


I like this for the top 2. (copied from another thread)

Knies Matthews Nylander
Bertuzzi Tavares Marner

Doesn’t matter if it’s 4 or 82
just saying he will be insignificant in the playoffs.

 

[ACC1224]

Doesn’t matter if it’s 4 or 82
just saying he will be insignificant in the playoffs.

for sure, what's that old saying?
"why put off grumping tomorrow when you can grump today. "

 

[WTFMAN99]

If Nylander re-signs, eyes will turn towards Marner and if the ask is stupid, that might spell the end for Marner in a Leaf uniform.

I thought Nylander has really made strides to close the gap between the 2 of them.

I simply reject Marner using Matthews as a point of comparison, centres are simply more valuable than wingers.

The problem is you would need to get great value back on Marner and I don't expect Marner to fetch an established top end defenseman.

You could try to gamble? I thought about something like Mintyukov, McTavish, Strome or Vatrano ($) for Marner and Liljegren or something along those lines.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Rumour out there is Willy may take a short term 1 year deal to help out Leafs on CAP for a year and then sign an 8 year deal asap ..

 

[Antropovsky]

I don’t think they dictate, keefe ultimately makes the decision but I think everyone knows they want to play together and prefer to play together.

In 2017-2018 - Matthews played on line with Hyman, Brown, Nylander. All three of his linemates in their second NHL seasons.

Meanwhile Marner was playing on lines with veterans Marleau, Kadri, JVR and Bozak. All with exception of Marleau in the primes of their careers. Marleau was coming off a 27 goal 46 point season.

In 2018-2019 - Matthews primary linemates were Kapanen, Johnsson, Marleau and Nylander. The line with Nylander being the least of the main three. So the oldest guy on the roster and two rookies.

In 2018-2019 - Marners primary linemates were Hyman and Tavares by a wide margin. The next biggest being Johnsson Tavares. So he's playing with a two time Hart trophy nominee in his prime and Hyman who was entering his third full season.

Can't really blame Matthews for making requests, he was clearly being given the short end of the stick in terms of linemates by Babcock. Heck both Matthews rookie linemates in 2018 (Johnsson and Kapanen) had their best years with him and then struggled to stay in the league afterwards.

 

[ACC1224]

If Nylander re-signs, eyes will turn towards Marner and if the ask is stupid, that might spell the end for Marner in a Leaf uniform.

I thought Nylander has really made strides to close the gap between the 2 of them.

I simply reject Marner using Matthews as a point of comparison, centres are simply more valuable than wingers.

The problem is you would need to get great value back on Marner and I don't expect Marner to fetch an established top end defenseman.

You could try to gamble? I thought about something like Mintyukov, McTavish, Strome or Vatrano ($) for Marner and Liljegren or something along those lines.

Only way Marner goes is walking as a UFA.

Rumour out there is Willy may take a short term 1 year deal to help out Leafs on CAP for a year and then sign an 8 year deal asap ..

Risky for Nylander but that could end up being good for everyone.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Only way Marner goes is walking as a UFA.


Risky for Nylander but that could end up being good for everyone.

If he wants it that way, yes, he has a full NMC now I believe.

 

[ACC1224]

If he wants it that way, yes, he has a full NMC now I believe.

Can't see him wanting to leave now. There was a time but not now, probably not ever.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Rumour out there is Willy may take a short term 1 year deal to help out Leafs on CAP for a year and then sign an 8 year deal asap ..

Yeah I really don't think so, sounds like complete BS for a number of reasons.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Can't see him wanting to leave now. There was a time but not now, probably not ever.

I just don't know how much higher we can realistically go over his current AAV.

He's already #9 for top cap hit in the league

MacKinnon, Matthews, McDavid, Tavares are centres and ahead of him

Doughty and Karlsson are Norris winning defenseman that are ever so slightly ahead of him.

Pastrnak just re-upped to 11.25M after a sweet heart RFA deal

Panarin as a UFA got a bit more

I'm hoping he'd take 11-11.5M

 

[ACC1224]

I just don't know how much higher we can realistically go over his current AAV.

He's already #9 for top cap hit in the league

MacKinnon, Matthews, McDavid, Tavares are centres and ahead of him

Doughty and Karlsson are Norris winning defenseman that are ever so slightly ahead of him.

Pastrnak just re-upped to 11.25M after a sweet heart RFA deal

Panarin as a UFA got a bit more

I'm hoping he'd take 11-11.5M

No idea, lots can happen in 2 years.

 

[francis246]

If Nylander re-signs, eyes will turn towards Marner and if the ask is stupid, that might spell the end for Marner in a Leaf uniform.

I thought Nylander has really made strides to close the gap between the 2 of them.

I simply reject Marner using Matthews as a point of comparison, centres are simply more valuable than wingers.

The problem is you would need to get great value back on Marner and I don't expect Marner to fetch an established top end defenseman.

You could try to gamble? I thought about something like Mintyukov, McTavish, Strome or Vatrano ($) for Marner and Liljegren or something along those lines.

I doubt Marner ever gets traded. Also, I don’t think Marner is getting this magical raise everyone thinks he is. I see him going to 11 or 11.5 that’s about it. So at most we are looking at a $100,000 to $600,000 raise. On an 8 year deal I think Marner takes that every day of the week.

He’s not going to go to put himself through what he went through again last go around IMO.