Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

[centipede2233]

It feels like this might be Shannahan’s last season.

God leafs fans can only hope, it would be 10 years with 1 playoff rd win..pathetic

 

[Nineteen67]

God leafs fans can only hope, it would be 10 years with 1 playoff rd win..pathetic

Other than Montreal series they couldn’t be expected to win any other series.

The bigger issue is they are still so far away from contending and may have peaked.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Yeah I really don't think so, sounds like complete BS for a number of reasons.

I thought so too but you have to remember that Nylander's are already billionaires from family steel and real estate businesses in sweden .. Mike Willy Alex etc have never had to earn an income to survive .. hockey is all just gravy for them .. but when I heard it I thought so too regardless of family wealth

 

[Gary Nylund]

He’s the only entertaining player on the team.

I wouldn't go that far. Matthews was pretty entertaining in the first two games and when Nylander is on, he's a ton of fun to watch as well. I would just say that most nights, Marner is the most fun to watch, put the "regular season" asterix next to it and leave it at that.

Nice avatar BTW!

 

[centipede2233]

Other than Montreal series they couldn’t be expected to win any other series.

The bigger issue is they are still so far away from contending and may have peaked.

Columbus?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Other than Montreal series they couldn’t be expected to win any other series.

The bigger issue is they are still so far away from contending and may have peaked.

LOL. I know you love to make excuses for these guys but this is some next level nonsense. Based on pre-series odds, this core projected to be about 4-4 by now in playoff series and instead, we're 1-7. Those are the facts and you can spin like the Tazmanian devil if it makes you feel better, but facts are still facts.

 

[Nineteen67]

Columbus?

Play in, and no. That wasn’t a good matchup.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Play in, and no. That wasn’t a good matchup.

Says who? CLB was a mediocre team, seems like a pretty good matchup to me.

 

[Nineteen67]

LOL. I know you love to make excuses for these guys but this is some next level nonsense. Based on pre-series odds, this core projected to be about 4-4 by now in playoff series and instead, we're 1-7. Those are the facts and you can spin like the Tazmanian devil if it makes you feel better, but facts are still facts.

Odds, eh?

I never picked them to win any series outside of TB last year and were upset just the once, IMO.

 

[Nineteen67]

Says who? CLB was a mediocre team, seems like a pretty good matchup to me.

They were both mediocre which is why they were in a battle for a playoff position and seeded where they were.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Odds, eh?

I never picked them to win any series outside of TB last year and were upset just the once, IMO.

Yes, odds. If you picked them to lose to both MTL and Florida, good for you but they weren't smart choices, you just got lucky.

They were both mediocre which is why they were in a battle for a playoff position and seeded where they were.

Sure but both teams were ravaged by injuries during the season and both teams were almost 100% healthy for the playoffs. The difference is, we had a ton of stars injured whereas CLB didn't have much in the way of stars to begin with so at full strength, we projected to be the better team, much better than we were during the season and if you look at both teams records in the years before and after that series, that's what you'll see.

 

[centipede2233]

Play in, and no. That wasn’t a good matchup.

Toronto was the higher seed which is a fact. You saying it wasn’t a good matchup is just an opinion. Also Toronto was the favourite vs Florida last year ie. higher seed

 

[Gary Nylund]

Toronto was the higher seed which is a fact. You saying it wasn’t a good matchup is just an opinion. Also Toronto was the favourite vs Florida last year ie. higher seed

Toronto was a massive favorite against Florida, and MTL as well. They've never been as big an underdog as they were favorites those two times, and that includes the series against WSH.

 

[Nineteen67]

Toronto was the higher seed which is a fact. You saying it wasn’t a good matchup is just an opinion. Also Toronto was the favourite vs Florida last year ie. higher seed

It wasn’t a good matchup for the Leafs because of size, speed and the fact the Leafs are easy to play against. Foligno even said it. My opinion is based my observations.
Because of all the flaws in their roster over the years, when the playoffs begin I’ve said the Leafs are the 12- 16th best team. They have a few good pieces but the gapping holes prevent them from consistently winning in the playoffs.

 

[Arzak]

Toronto was a massive favorite against Florida, and MTL as well. They've never been as big an underdog as they were favorites those two times, and that includes the series against WSH.

We are a top 5 regular-season team, but we managed to temper playoff expectations so much, that we are never the favourite to win it.

1-7 , 50% of the teams in the 1st round move forward.
An average team (say one without Marner) should be 4:4.

Half of the teams moved on and we managed it once in 8 years no matter how you slice it but to say 1-7 is the best we could hope for given that destiny is always out to hunt Leafs in their pursuit of the Cup is laughable.


Counter-argument:
1-7 is basically SCF if you consider we were a dog in at least two playoff series, plus rookie GM and kids needed maturing, refs out to get Leafs and goalied a lot we were...

 

[kevsh]

Based on pre-series odds, this core projected to be about 4-4 by now in playoff series and instead, we're 1-7.

They also were 1 win away from winning all but one of the 7 they lost, choked in two series they were ahead 3-2 and another with a 3-1 lead (that will traumatize Leafs fans for a generation), so there's that.

Besides, even if going in they were underdogs in every single series, that's still no excuse. Underdogs go on deep runs frequently, just ask the Panthers and Canadiens from the past few years alone.

 

[Arzak]

It wasn’t a good matchup for the Leafs because of size, speed and the fact the Leafs are easy to play against. Foligno even said it. My opinion is based my observations.
Because of all the flaws in their roster over the years, when the playoffs begin I’ve said the Leafs are the 12- 16th best team. They have a few good pieces but the gapping holes prevent them from consistently winning in the playoffs.

Yeah they could use more size, speed and balls, what else is new?

 

[supermann_98]

It's a shame we'll probably lose Nylander because of $500k to $1m and overpay Marner (again) by at LEAST that much.

What's with him falling all over the place this year so far? It's not like it's playoff time yet.

And how can a guy who's such a 'magician' with the puck handle it like a grenade, forget how to make a tape-to-tape pass, and look less patient with the puck than Easton Cowan did while he was here during the pre-season?

Genuinely can't wait to hear the reaction on here when his asking price on an extension starts with $13m

 

[Nineteen67]

Yeah they could use more size, speed and balls, what else is new?

Nothing…been that way for years. That’s why I didnt believe they could have won 4 playoff series.

 

[Antropovsky]

It's a shame we'll probably lose Nylander because of $500k to $1m and overpay Marner (again) by at LEAST that much.

What's with him falling all over the place this year so far? It's not like it's playoff time yet.

And how can a guy who's such a 'magician' with the puck handle it like a grenade, forget how to make a tape-to-tape pass, and look less patient with the puck than Easton Cowan did while he was here during the pre-season?

Genuinely can't wait to hear the reaction on here when his asking price on an extension starts with $13m

- Tkachuk and Barkov are getting 19.5 million until 2030.

- Matthews next contract, for 13.25 million, which he just signed, is up in 2028, two years before Barkov and Tkachuk deals expire.

- Marner and Matthews today take up about 2 million more than Barkov/Tkachuk. Next year... They will make about 4 million more.

- the following year, depending how crazy Marners ask is... They will likely make 5 million more!

- in 2028 they could be making 10 million more because Matthews contract is again up!

We couldn't even take Florida (led by Barkov/Tkachuk to 6 games this past year...and got beat again in game 1 this season. How the hell are we going to compete with them next year, or when Marners contract is signed, or in 2029 when Matthews's next contract is signed... All before Barkov/Tkachuk contracts expire.

This team is in heaps of trouble. Had we traded Marner, I think we could've signed Nylander to 9.5 million immediately. But...as Nylander said publically, he won't take less if others don't. So now we are likely driving the price of Nylander up...I like Nylander more than Marner. But I don't think he's worth more than 9.5. However, I don't blame him for wanting it given the greed his teammates have shown.and rumors were that he was planning to move Marner

My fear was that Dubas would leave right when he saw the light, . He even said in his last conference that if he's back, nothing is off the table.

But another strike of bad luck... The transition from Lou to Dubas was at the worst time and the transition from Dubas to Treliving was too.

 

[IPS]

Genuinely can't wait to hear the reaction on here when his asking price on an extension starts with $13m

Yeah totally. All those arguments about how PK'ing is worth more than scoring 60 goals. Gonna be awesome.

Says who? CLB was a mediocre team, seems like a pretty good matchup to me.

They were a good matchup. About the perfect team they needed to beat to make a statement that they can do fine in playoff hockey.

Instead we get more $11M core players scoring 0 goals in the playoffs.

 

[supermann_98]

- Tkachuk and Barkov are getting 19.5 million until 2030.

- Matthews next contract, for 13.25 million, which he just signed, is up in 2028, two years before Barkov and Tkachuk deals expire.

- Marner and Matthews today take up about 2 million more than Barkov/Tkachuk. Next year... They will make about 4 million more.

- the following year, depending how crazy Marners ask is... They will likely make 5 million more!

- in 2028 they could be making 10 million more because Matthews contract is again up!

We couldn't even take Florida (led by Barkov/Tkachuk to 6 games this past year...and got beat again in game 1 this season. How the hell are we going to compete with them next year, or when Marners contract is signed, or in 2029 when Matthews's next contract is signed... All before Barkov/Tkachuk contracts expire.

This team is in heaps of trouble. Had we traded Marner, I think we could've signed Nylander to 9.5 million immediately. But...as Nylander said publically, he won't take less if others don't. So now we are likely driving the price of Nylander up...I like Nylander more than Marner. But I don't think he's worth more than 9.5. However, I don't blame him for wanting it given the greed his teammates have shown.

My fear was that Dubas would leave right when he saw the light, and rumors were that he was planning to move Marner. He even said in his last conference that if he's back, nothing is off the table. And rumors were he was planning to move Marner.

But another strike of bad luck... The transition from Lou to Dubas was at the worst time and the transition from Dubas to Treliving was too.

It's very distressing when you look at it in a nutshell like that, but luckily Tavares' contract comes off the books when these contracts really start to hurt, and who knows maybe the cap goes up enough to make the point moot.

Fact is Barkov/Tkachuk as a tandem may not be as talented as Matthews/Marner ... or ARE they? But both those guys are all-world and a serious argument could be made that if they're not as talented, they're certainly a more effective tandom when it comes to playing a heavy grinding playoff style of game.

If the rumours about Dubas looking to move Marner are true I wish we kept Dubas, and I'm a harsh Dubas critic. The return we would've got on Marner would probably start with a young potential top pairing Dman and some depth to solidify the bottom 6, as well as draft pick capital we can use in future deals.

There's no doubt we'd suffer in the regular season, but Marner is honestly pathetic in the playoffs. Those 2 over-the-glass penalties against Montreal will forever haunt me

 

[Arzak]

It's very distressing when you look at it in a nutshell like that, but luckily Tavares' contract comes off the books when these contracts really start to hurt, and who knows maybe the cap goes up enough to make the point moot.

Fact is Barkov/Tkachuk as a tandem may not be as talented as Matthews/Marner ... or ARE they? But both those guys are all-world and a serious argument could be made that if they're not as talented, they're certainly a more effective tandom when it comes to playing a heavy grinding playoff style of game.

If the rumours about Dubas looking to move Marner are true I wish we kept Dubas, and I'm a harsh Dubas critic. The return we would've got on Marner would probably start with a young potential top pairing Dman and some depth to solidify the bottom 6, as well as draft pick capital we can use in future deals.

There's no doubt we'd suffer in the regular season, but Marner is honestly pathetic in the playoffs. Those 2 over-the-glass penalties against Montreal will forever haunt me

We all hoping for the cap to go up, but it's tricky, all contenders will benefit from the cap increase.

We'll use the cap increase to mitigate our contracts, while another contender might use it to further improve.

I can see us gaining on teams like Arizona with the cap increase... The rest?
Let's say you give Tampa,Panthers,Carolina,Boston and Leafs extra 10M in cap space, who'll improve the most?

If the answer is anything but Leafs will improve the most, by far, no need to talk about cap increase .

 

[ULF_55]

LOL to trading Marner for a goalie. That would be the worst trade of all time.

Marner should not be traded. He carries this offense more than any other player on this team and is arguably the best defensive forward we have.

It sounds like Matthews might be the playoffs problem.

 

[Antropovsky]

It sounds like Matthews might be the playoffs problem.

Tell me you havent watched the playoffs without actually telling me you haven't watch the playoffs.