Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

[thewave]

Mitch Marner to Arizona for ...

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Former 1st round pick #7 overall that played with Austin Matthews at US National Development program ..

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Keller finished #21 overall (just behind Nylander) and score +7 more goals but 13 less points then Mitch, and would likely see a nice points increase playing alongside Matthews.

Arizona got Keller re-signed for 8 years coming out of his ELC and has 5 more years at $7.150 mil AAV remaining.

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Leafs could pull a blockbuster deal similar to the Matthew Tkachuk deal (which Treliving pulled off) that sends multiple players each way built around Marner for Keller.

I like it.

They wont because they will cite having to pay more for less goals and term.

Actually a situation where we may need to add to get the lesser player. Not sure what the add would be.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Even places like The Athletic has similar valuations as to what I cited. But you don't need to justify your opinion based on anything other than tea leaves. Well done. The world is a guessing game

I didn't actually offer an opinion. I just asked for yours, which turns out to match mine fairly well.

 

[Notsince67]

Marner was unbelievably bad that game, I wouldn't have thought it was even possible for regular season wonder boy to play so badly with the season on the line had I not seen it with my own eyes. He was abysmal, that's not an opinion, it's a fact that not one single person has disputed, except you of course.

You want something to back it up, here you go. Game 3 against Florida, expected goals %, individual players 5on5. Read'em and weep.

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MoneyPuck.com

Real Time Hockey Win Probabilities In Game

moneypuck.com

With the season on the line, Marner put up a historically putrid performance. Keep denying this simple fact if you like, by doing so you're only destroying any sliver of credibility you have left.

1 game. Such a flaccid argument. You and the ponderous arguments are just tedious.

 

[Notsince67]

See Paul, this is exactly why I asked for a source in the first place, suspecting you misrepresenting pseudo data and here you go.
Player cards from last year...


In no way this explains why you think $$$ player brings to the club via merchant sales justifies his on-ice performance relative to his cap hit.

I know that you like to play dumb when it suits you, but even you understand the difference.
McDavid can be worth 30 mills, but no one is icing a competitive team with this hit.


The same way you can't have Marners of the world @ $11. Not if you want to be a contender.

Nice try. It drives a nail into your argument whether you misrepresent or distort it as irrelevant. It even shows that a source that you have access to read isn't being read. Give up on the tea leaves Gomer

 

[Antropovsky]

No question he outperformed kucherov both times they met and certainly Pasta this year. This is getting so old. People need to stop repeating such stupidity. He outperformed the whole f***ing team ffs. Best player in series 1 and the only clutch game winner in series 2. The only one that kept a crappy defense together. The one that saw the highest QoC of anyone including Dmen. If they weren't focusing on him, everyone else would have choked larger than they did.

Really? Marner had 14 playoff points... Why don't you name off all the goals of those 14 points that he was the line driver on. I've rewatched all the games... His stats are padded by his elite linemates. Go ahead... 14 points how many was he the line driver?

Sift through them... And you will note that they are just 50' shots, typical pp point passes etc.

The reason Matthews struggles in the playoffs is because literally anytime Marner gets the puck, he does something stupid and loses it.

Marners acceleration is too slow for him to create off the rush, and he's too terrified of contact for him to produce on a cycle. He's garbage. Nylander is afraid of contact too...but his skating is significantly better so he can produce on the rush and he also is significantly stronger so he is hard to get knocked off the puck. Marner is falling all over the ice.

He's trash....walk on Paul.

 

[al secord]

Boring. Practically, they have no chance. Seven years in a row is the proof.

I showed this to my kids to convince them to stay in school.

 

[Antropovsky]

1 game. Such a flaccid argument. You and the ponderous arguments are just tedious.

He was unbelievably bad in many games.. Game 3 vs Florida, leafs probably would've been better off playing short handed rather than having him on the ice.

Game 1-2 vs Tampa he put up 6 points... 4 of them after the game was 5-1 with less than 23 mins remaining..... Whoop whoop! Go Marner!

His average shot distance was over 40 feet... And his slot shots were 10% worse than the next leaf player. Yep sure sounds like an elite 11 million dollar player Paul!

 

[Antropovsky]

Lol 1 game. That's your evidence? Weak and a quote that will come back at you in the future for a good laugh.

And where is your evidence... ?Marner had 14 points, all are on the internet. Break down these plays and explain to us how he was the line driver. Explain the high end skill behind the plays and how the point at that particular point in the game matters so much.

You won't find much. He's typically not the driver of the goal, he typically doesn't produce when it matters either, and the points are usually not high end... They are just basic passes or prayers of a slap shot from 50' out and he's not even looking when he does it. He produces because he plays 22 mins with truly elite teammates.

 

[Gary Nylund]

1 game. Such a flaccid argument. You and the ponderous arguments are just tedious.

Not an argument, a fact. You seem to be in love with Marner which explains why you you fawn over the good stuff and pretend the bad doesn't exist. Love's a beautiful thing so enjoy.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I get not wanting to trade him but it’s crazy to suggest we can’t live without him. Part of hockey IQ is adapting to the situation in front of you, sometimes that situation doesn’t require threading the perfect pass no one saw coming.

He’s the opposite of Crosby, Sid needed very specific types of players on his line but once he had them he could play any way the situation called for. You can stick Marner with any combination of forwards and they’ll be playing his game seamlessly but that game doesn’t have a Plan B in case it doesn’t work. He could dissect Tampa with his game no problem, Florida’s D weren’t even in a position to dissect half the time. He couldn’t make the adjustment to simple straight lines towards the net with the space and turnovers they gave up.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Current mkt value is pretty tough with elite players. Each have a skill set that is rare...even among other elite players. The frequency of contracts just aren't there at at some cases, there are other things at play like dumb mgmt that bid up prices through actions such as waiting too long to agree to offer a contract.

Translation: the guy I like is too special to be rated like everyone else, so my opinion is the only valid one.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Nylander > Keller but at 7m for 5 more years and a couple of years younger, one for one is tempting.

Or

Marner for Keller and Crouse ???

Nylander is better than Keller, but their salaries are comparable. With Mitch and his higher cap hit we may not have to add.

 

[ToneDog]

Nylander is better than Keller, but their salaries are comparable. With Mitch and his higher cap hit we may not have to add.

Willie is owed $2.5m bonus July 1st and $6m for the season. Keller is owned $6m, Keller has a higher cap hit though. Willie's cap hit will be higher after he signs his new deal. Be great if we can get Zona to add a pick or prospect since everybody knows Keller wants out.

I doubt Leafs would do Mitch for Keller one for one. I doubt Zona adds Crouse though.

 

[thewave]

Really? Marner had 14 playoff points... Why don't you name off all the goals of those 14 points that he was the line driver on. I've rewatched all the games... His stats are padded by his elite linemates. Go ahead... 14 points how many was he the line driver?

Sift through them... And you will note that they are just 50' shots, typical pp point passes etc.

The reason Matthews struggles in the playoffs is because literally anytime Marner gets the puck, he does something stupid and loses it.

Marners acceleration is too slow for him to create off the rush, and he's too terrified of contact for him to produce on a cycle. He's garbage. Nylander is afraid of contact too...but his skating is significantly better so he can produce on the rush and he also is significantly stronger so he is hard to get knocked off the puck. Marner is falling all over the ice.

He's trash....walk on Paul.

This is the real assessment for intelligent scouts. Marner looks good in the regular season as a trotter making some slick passes to a truly elite goal scorer. POs come around and he is done.

Not even Paul Marner could deny it if the blinders were taken off.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I showed this to my kids to convince them to stay in school.

Your kids have no chance of success with the acceptance of losing attitude you set.

Have a nice day.

 

[sunstersun]

Really? Marner had 14 playoff points... Why don't you name off all the goals of those 14 points that he was the line driver on. I've rewatched all the games... His stats are padded by his elite linemates. Go ahead... 14 points how many was he the line driver?

Sift through them... And you will note that they are just 50' shots, typical pp point passes etc.

The reason Matthews struggles in the playoffs is because literally anytime Marner gets the puck, he does something stupid and loses it.

Marners acceleration is too slow for him to create off the rush, and he's too terrified of contact for him to produce on a cycle. He's garbage. Nylander is afraid of contact too...but his skating is significantly better so he can produce on the rush and he also is significantly stronger so he is hard to get knocked off the puck. Marner is falling all over the ice.

He's trash....walk on Paul.

Everyone can spare 10 minutes and verify this true claim.

I will be very upset if we trade Willy over Marner.

 

[Leafshater67]

Wish he wasn’t so hung up on being as rich as possible and cared more about winning..

He’d be a lot more effective with a power forward on his line to open up space for him. I was so mad when the leafs didn’t get Evander Kane for free - his game would have strongly complimented this soft top 6 that can’t and won’t go to the dirty areas to win a playoff game. A guy like that on Marner’s line would give him so much more room to play his game. He’s a brilliant player but soft and gets bullied when the tempo picks up out there.

 

[thewave]

Everyone can spare 10 minutes and verify this true claim.

I will be very upset if we trade Willy over Marner.

Watched it. Nylander looked more impactful having to use more skill to complete the plays on the ice, Many of Marners points came off of just putting the puck on net from the blue line. Many of the others were just quick dishes as well.

I don't think anyone honest watches that in isolation and says 16 is better. No way.

Wish he wasn’t so hung up on being as rich as possible and cared more about winning..

He’d be a lot more effective with a power forward on his line to open up space for him. I was so mad when the leafs didn’t get Evander Kane for free - his game would have strongly complimented this soft top 6 that can’t and won’t go to the dirty areas to win a playoff game. A guy like that on Marner’s line would give him so much more room to play his game. He’s a brilliant player but soft and gets bullied when the tempo picks up out there.

He is too slow for how pretty he likes to play. It's going to catch up to him in short order.

 

[Trapper]

Willie is owed $2.5m bonus July 1st and $6m for the season. Keller is owned $6m, Keller has a higher cap hit though. Willie's cap hit will be higher after he signs his new deal. Be great if we can get Zona to add a pick or prospect since everybody knows Keller wants out.

I doubt Leafs would do Mitch for Keller one for one. I doubt Zona adds Crouse though.

I would do Marner for Keller straight up.

Would you rather pay 11 million (due a raise in 2 years) for 99 points, or 7 million for 86 points?
In a cap world that’s just smart business.

It’s not like Marner has been some playoff bull dragging us single handed through the playoffs. So even if Keller does the same, you’ve still been able to add another 4 million dollar player.

I’d make that deal in a heartbeat. Throw in Doan’s kid for the hard feelings club.

 

[leafs in five]

we reached the "Mitch Marner is making too many simple plays in the playoffs" stage of the thread

 

[notdoneyet]

11games
MM 3-11 14 points +8 18 hits
WN 4-6 10 points -4 3 hits


You nylander fanboys should get your
Shit together

 

[leafs in five]

should have been passing it back into his own zone on breakouts more et cetera

11games
MM 3-11 14 points +8 18 hits

but on how many of the plays that resulted in points was he just making a simple pass or getting the puck on net from distance? checkmate

 

[Notsince67]

Translation: the guy I like is too special to be rated like everyone else, so my opinion is the only valid one.

It is the only right one here.
Marner will likely sign with the Leafs with a raise. Your fantasy is really irrelevant. If he leaves the team he will also get a raise. What part of that don't you get...or do you agree with it and in some demented way feel that the world just doesn't work properly and that while he will get a raise, it just isn't right?

 

[Trapper]

It is the only right one here.
Marner will likely sign with the Leafs with a raise. Your fantasy is really irrelevant. If he leaves the team he will also get a raise. What part of that don't you get...or do you agree with it and in some demented way feel that the world just doesn't work properly and that while he will get a raise, it just isn't right?

Yes please. I wouldn’t be paying Matthews/Marner both 13 mil plus.
Lock up Matthews and find a player around 7 with term for Marner.

 

[PromisedLand]

Treliving needs to trade one of Matthews or Marner there are no 2 ways around it.

Ideally Marner is traded before July 1st to round out the roster.

Leafs are never going to win the cup with Matthews/Marner/Nylander (and tavares) taking lion;s share of the cap. Even after Tavares is off the cap paying ridiculous AAV to all 3 of Matthews, Marner, Nylander is stupid.

Marner is the odd man out as far as I am cocnerned. Marner should be gone asap and Keefe should be fired.

Treliving time is running out don't be stupid or should i say don't be a freakin dubas.