Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

[thewave]

Lol 1 game. That's your evidence? Weak and a quote that will come back at you in the future for a good laugh.

It really was the worst game by any leaf in playoff history. I was hoping he got benched most the game. He always cracks under pressure though, mr shambles can't take the heat. Skip the Playoffs Marner at it again, great every other time but those POs stink,

 

[Notsince67]

It really was the worst game by any leaf in playoff history. I was hoping he got benched most the game. He always cracks under pressure though, mr shambles can't take the heat. Skip the Playoffs Marner at it again, great every other time but those POs stink,

Context....
The whole series, he was on ice 5x5 for 8 gf and 1 ga with the highest gf% of the team.
He also led with the highest xg% in case you thought it was a fluke.
Stink my ass. You have an agenda and nothing really tangible to throw.

 

[nuck]

Trade if there is a $14M Matthews. Keep if AM wants $14 x 3. There can be only one!

 

[thewave]

Trade if there is a $14M Matthews. Keep if AM wants $14 x 3. There can be only one!

View attachment 718652

We need a name change. Toronto Pirates or Vikings or Greedhounds? Then award a new team to the GTA as the Leafs under new ownership. Seems like the only solution.

 

[notDatsyuk]

These kinds of players are worth far more than they are paid or can be paid. McDavids actual value is actually greater than 20mm.
AM closer to league max , Marner ~13mm and Willy ~11mm
Now depending on term and projection of how much they improve or decline, that number changes. League socialism brings the number down. It's depth players that are usually overpaid.

I suppose if you start by saying McDavid is worth $20M, then you can justify Matty at $15 and Mitch at $13. Since McDavid gets about 2/3 that, I guess Matty should get $10 and Mitch $8.5.

That sounds much more reasonable. Well done.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Isn't Marner amazing?

Even if he does act the privileged entitled.

Marner was doomed the moment he signed that contract. He set himself up to being judged to unrealistic expectations. He just wanted his fair share.

Whether you, me, or anyone else thinks it's "fair"", or not.

The Leafs should just trade Marner now and get it over with. Like tearing a bandaid off. Short term pain for long term gain.

They haven't won anything with him anyway, so why not see if they can win without him?

I don't see how any management group could watch this unfold without changing something. Treading out the same chokers year after year. At least trading Marner would be trying something different.

They might still lose.

But then again, maybe they won't. What's a guarantee is that not making change will result in exact that: no change. Keeping this same core of losers together will do nothing to improve the team beyond what they already are.

Unless it helps precipitate the transition to another management group quicker.

 

[Notsince67]

I suppose if you start by saying McDavid is worth $20M, then you can justify Matty at $15 and Mitch at $13. Since McDavid gets about 2/3 that, I guess Matty should get $10 and Mitch $8.5.

That sounds much more reasonable. Well done.

Even places like The Athletic has similar valuations as to what I cited. But you don't need to justify your opinion based on anything other than tea leaves. Well done. The world is a guessing game

 

[Arzak]

These kinds of players are worth far more than they are paid or can be paid. McDavids actual value is actually greater than 20mm.
AM closer to league max , Marner ~13mm and Willy ~11mm
Now depending on term and projection of how much they improve or decline, that number changes. League socialism brings the number down. It's depth players that are usually overpaid.

The mental gymnastics you need to take to justify Mitch's contract.
Just read what you are posting every once in a while Paul.


You need the best player in the world - McDavid taking 30% more than is allowed under CBA to justify what "Can't score" Mitch is taking...


Marner is not Matthews or McDavids comparable, do not put his skinny ass in the same conversation. It's beyond pathetic.

 

[Notsince67]

The mental gymnastics you need to take to justify Mitch's contract.
Just read what you are posting every once in a while Paul.


You need the best player in the world - McDavid taking 30% more than is allowed under CBA to justify what "Can't score" Mitch is taking...


Marner is not Matthews or McDavids comparable, do not put his skinny ass in the same conversation. It's beyond pathetic.

The mental gymnastics you require to read a thing or two, Gomer, isn't that taxing. Try Google for a change or if you have a couple of bucks, subscribe to the Athletic and check out their player cards. You might learn things beyond finger painting with your own shit.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Isn't Marner amazing?

Even if he does act the privileged entitled.

Marner was doomed the moment he signed that contract. He set himself up to being judged to unrealistic expectations. He just wanted his fair share.

Whether you, me, or anyone else thinks it's "fair"", or not.

The Leafs should just trade Marner now and get it over with. Like tearing a bandaid off. Short term pain for long term gain.

They haven't won anything with him anyway, so why not see if they can win without him?

I don't see how any management group could watch this unfold without changing something. Treading out the same chokers year after year. At least trading Marner would be trying something different.

They might still lose.

But then again, maybe they won't. What's a guarantee is that not making change will result in exact that: no change. Keeping this same core of losers together will do nothing to improve the team beyond what they already are.

Unless it helps precipitate the transition to another management group quicker.

Not only are many posters here advocates of keeping the core together many of them are even in favour of paying MORE for the privilege.

This is NOT a recipe for success.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Not only are many posters here advocates of keeping the core together many of them are even in favour of paying MORE for the privilege.

This is NOT a recipe for success.

Some people insist on rewarding failure.

More money than brains.

If they fail again, fans and media should be up all these guys asses.

Just gotta find room beside their heads is all.

 

[Arzak]

The mental gymnastics you require to read a thing or two, Gomer, isn't that taxing. Try Google for a change or if you have a couple of bucks, subscribe to the Athletic and check out their player cards. You might learn things beyond finger painting with your own shit.

Thank you for mentioning Athletic, I've been a subscriber for years so feel free to share a link that might explain your garbage logic.

There never was an article you are trying to misquote Paul.

The fact that McDavid would take much more if there wasn't a hard cap and comparison to all-time greats from the pre-cap era has nothing to do with Mitch being overpaid or having any bearings on his next contract.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Lol 1 game. That's your evidence? Weak and a quote that will come back at you in the future for a good laugh.

Nothing that happens in the future can change the fact that in the most important game of the year, Marner was simply awful.

The mental gymnastics you require to read a thing or two, Gomer, isn't that taxing. Try Google for a change or if you have a couple of bucks, subscribe to the Athletic and check out their player cards. You might learn things beyond finger painting with your own shit.

Exchanging thoughts with you is always such a pleasure.

 

[Notsince67]

Thank you for mentioning Athletic, I've been a subscriber for years so feel free to share a link that might explain your garbage logic.

There never was an article you are trying to misquote Paul.

The fact that McDavid would take much more if there wasn't a hard cap and comparison to all-time greats from the pre-cap era has nothing to do with Mitch being overpaid or having any bearings on his next contract.

The numbers they have up are a bit old and higher than what I put up.
But here it is

NHL Player Cards: Toronto Maple Leafs

Data visualizations for each relevant player on the Toronto Maple Leafs, stylized as hockey cards.

theathletic.com

 

[Notsince67]

Nothing that happens in the future can change the fact that in the most important game of the year, Marner was simply awful.


Exchanging thoughts with you is always such a pleasure.

Don't bring a proverbial knife (read as a metaphor. If you dont know what that is...dictionary.com) to a gun fight. If you bring g nothing but an opinion with zero to back it up, it is never pleasant when you get called out.

 

[Gallagbi]

Don't bring a proverbial knife (read as a metaphor. If you dont know what that is...dictionary.com) to a gun fight. If you bring g nothing but an opinion with zero to back it up, it is never pleasant when you get called out.

Current market would be the obvious comparison for salary, while Athletic and other hypotheticals are nice, there is known high and low salaries currently and those are the teams Toronto faces.

With that said, I do think Marner has produced at the level needed in regular season, its just a shame his ability to elevate hasnt carried through to playoff production often enough. It also feels like hes been involved in an abnormally high number of key playoff mistakes. The turnover on the GWG in game which basically ended our series/season followed by his overall play in game 3 in FLA. The TB turnover and inability to stop a zone entry for the GWG in game 6. The misplayed coverage on TB's G7 Winner after Muzzin gets hauled down. The G7 turnover v. MTL, the over the glass v. Mtl in G6.

That does ignore the good, like his overall play in both TB series, the GWG v. Fla in Game 4, his Game 5 "shot pass" v. TB.

But really you want to clean up those crucial mistakes by him and to a lesser extent Matthews in playoffs.

 

[Mess]

Mitch Marner to Arizona for ...

Former 1st round pick #7 overall that played with Austin Matthews at US National Development program ..

Keller finished #21 overall (just behind Nylander) and score +7 more goals but 13 less points then Mitch, and would likely see a nice points increase playing alongside Matthews.

Arizona got Keller re-signed for 8 years coming out of his ELC and has 5 more years at $7.150 mil AAV remaining.

Leafs could pull a blockbuster deal similar to the Matthew Tkachuk deal (which Treliving pulled off) that sends multiple players each way built around Marner for Keller.

 

[geo25]

Back to ass kissing, I'm shocked.

Every time Marner's contract is discussed, you mock people for thinking any amount mentioned would be an overpayment, you keep saying he'd be leaving money on the table at whatever amount but when asked to name a number yourself, you resort to deflection and insults while scurrying away.

Gutless.

Totally agree w/you....embarrassing

Mitch Marner to Arizona for ...

View attachment 718810

Former 1st round pick #7 overall that played with Austin Matthews at US National Development program ..

View attachment 718812

Keller finished #21 overall (just behind Nylander) and score +7 more goals but 13 less points and would likely see a nice points increase playing alongside Matthews.

Arizona got Keller re-signed for 8 years coming out of his ELC and has 5 more years at $7.150 mil AAV remaining.

View attachment 718815
View attachment 718816

View attachment 718813

Leafs could pull a blockbuster deal similar to the Matthew Tkachuk deal (which Treliving pulled off) that sends multiple players each way built around Marner for Keller.

Great idea, would love to see it..

 

[sunstersun]

Doooooo it.

Marner can maybe drag some life into Arizona in the regular season.

 

[Notsince67]

Current market would be the obvious comparison for salary, while Athletic and other hypotheticals are nice, there is known high and low salaries currently and those are the teams Toronto faces.

With that said, I do think Marner has produced at the level needed in regular season, its just a shame his ability to elevate hasnt carried through to playoff production often enough. It also feels like hes been involved in an abnormally high number of key playoff mistakes. The turnover on the GWG in game which basically ended our series/season followed by his overall play in game 3 in FLA. The TB turnover and inability to stop a zone entry for the GWG in game 6. The misplayed coverage on TB's G7 Winner after Muzzin gets hauled down. The G7 turnover v. MTL, the over the glass v. Mtl in G6.

That does ignore the good, like his overall play in both TB series, the GWG v. Fla in Game 4, his Game 5 "shot pass" v. TB.

But really you want to clean up those crucial mistakes by him and to a lesser extent Matthews in playoffs.

Current mkt value is pretty tough with elite players. Each have a skill set that is rare...even among other elite players. The frequency of contracts just aren't there at at some cases, there are other things at play like dumb mgmt that bid up prices through actions such as waiting too long to agree to offer a contract.

 

[ToneDog]

Mitch Marner to Arizona for ...

View attachment 718810

Former 1st round pick #7 overall that played with Austin Matthews at US National Development program ..

View attachment 718812

Keller finished #21 overall (just behind Nylander) and score +7 more goals but 13 less points and would likely see a nice points increase playing alongside Matthews.

Arizona got Keller re-signed for 8 years coming out of his ELC and has 5 more years at $7.150 mil AAV remaining.

View attachment 718815
View attachment 718816

View attachment 718813

Leafs could pull a blockbuster deal similar to the Matthew Tkachuk deal (which Treliving pulled off) that sends multiple players each way built around Marner for Keller.

Nylander > Keller but at 7m for 5 more years and a couple of years younger, one for one is tempting.

Or

Marner for Keller and Crouse ???

 

[Gary Nylund]

Don't bring a proverbial knife (read as a metaphor. If you dont know what that is...dictionary.com) to a gun fight. If you bring g nothing but an opinion with zero to back it up, it is never pleasant when you get called out.

Marner was unbelievably bad that game, I wouldn't have thought it was even possible for regular season wonder boy to play so badly with the season on the line had I not seen it with my own eyes. He was abysmal, that's not an opinion, it's a fact that not one single person has disputed, except you of course.

You want something to back it up, here you go. Game 3 against Florida, expected goals %, individual players 5on5. Read'em and weep.

MoneyPuck.com

Real Time Hockey Win Probabilities In Game

moneypuck.com

With the season on the line, Marner put up a historically putrid performance. Keep denying this simple fact if you like, by doing so you're only destroying any sliver of credibility you have left.

 

[Arzak]

The numbers they have up are a bit old and higher than what I put up.
But here it is

https://theathletic.com/3018348/[B]2022/04/19/nhl-player-cards[/B]-toronto-maple-leafs/

See Paul, this is exactly why I asked for a source in the first place, suspecting you misrepresenting pseudo data and here you go.
Player cards from last year...


In no way this explains why you think $$$ player brings to the club via merchant sales justifies his on-ice performance relative to his cap hit.

I know that you like to play dumb when it suits you, but even you understand the difference.
McDavid can be worth 30 mills, but no one is icing a competitive team with this hit.


The same way you can't have Marners of the world @ $11. Not if you want to be a contender.

 

[Trapper]

Nylander > Keller but at 7m for 5 more years and a couple of years younger, one for one is tempting.

Or

Marner for Keller and Crouse ???

I’d make that deal in a second.
Keller had 86 points with who on his team?

 

[sunstersun]

Nylander > Keller but at 7m for 5 more years and a couple of years younger, one for one is tempting.

Or

Marner for Keller and Crouse ???

Take the 2nd deal in a heartbeat. I'd take Marner for Keller straight up.

Sweet sweet cap space.