Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

[Notsince67]

all I see is excuses...stop making excuses for other teams.

When the leafs win its excuses galore for others.


why are you making excuses for Tampa? why are the leafs the only team to make vast a pumpkin 2 years straight?

There are excuses for the excuses but nobody is ready to admit them because they want to be seen as impartial. When the pitch forks are out, nobody stops and says..".I'm irrational but it sure feels good taking out my anger at my low self worth to feel like I'm part of a community...even if I'm lynching someone.
Not sure what everyone is angry at but I'm going to find every excuse to justify my actions"

 

[TheDoldrums]

Trade Mitch for whatever and Matthews.. Roll with Tavares and O'Reilly as the 1+2 C's. Tired of this shit.

Tired of the playoffs? This looks like the antidote for that!

 

[Martin Skoula]

Matthews is one of the best centers in the league. His 5vs5 stats are high, his faceoff percentage is high, his blocked shots high, hits are high, PIM differential high, expected goals are #1, and he competes physically in the playoffs. In the past two postseason his physical play has created numerous goals.

Problem with Matthews is that in the playoffs hes stapled to Marner and 3rd line wingers. Marner is less effective than 4th liners out there. No joke, watch game 3, Marner can't even carry the puck without it quicky being stripped. In fact very few players in the game are able to actually accelerate fast enough to skate with the puck. Nylander was one of them. Players without acceleration primarily play a cycle game and board battles. Marner does not part take in either. So he was absolutely useless, it's astonishing to watch him struggle, especially in game 3. Not only does he lack acceleration to create a gap but he's so afraid of contact that he's making premature decisions with the puck because he wants to get rid of it before a player is close enough to finish their hit. It's like hot potato to him.

Obvious glaring holes in his game that everyone except 3 gigahomers in here can see aside, his body language and general attitude in the playoffs is the biggest poison imo. He doesn’t get mad, he gets sad and panicky.

If he responded to getting repeatedly stripped of the puck with some dirty slashes and elbows a la Kucherov I wouldn’t even mind keeping him, but he just mopes and doubles down on his emotional on-ice decision making. For all the criticism of Matthews/Tavares/Nylander’s playoffs, at least they just don’t react when things go bad, maybe Matthews will throw a hit or two. I’ll take emotionless robots over crybabies as the “leadership” any day. Failure to inspire is preferable to actively sabotaging the teams spirits by moping like it’s over with time still left on the clock.

 

[mydnyte]

The Leafs are defying the odds. We should be close to a second cup since 1967.

So you prefer what the Leafs have given us over a SC appearance and a shot at the SC? ALL or nothing for you. Hey some of the usual suspects gloat that the team we lose to in the playoffs usually goes on to the SCF and loses.

have you ever made the finals and lost (in anything) ...that feeling is much worse, especially if you never get another chance, that yes, you'd rather lose early, than be that close and fail. ...that agony stays with you a lifetime.

 

[ToneDog]

all I see is excuses...stop making excuses for other teams.

When the leafs win its excuses galore for others.


why are you making excuses for Tampa? why are the leafs the only team to make vast a pumpkin 2 years straight?

Those are not excuses. Vasi was ass, Hedman played hurt and Cernak was knocked out by Bunts. If it makes you feel better that we won 5 instead of 3 games, God bless. The Leafs were not very good in these playoffs. Period.

 

[WillNy29]

Those are not excuses. Vasi was ass, Hedman played hurt and Cernak was knocked out by Bunts. If it makes you feel better that we won 5 instead of 3 games, God bless. The Leafs were not very good in these playoffs. Period.

it doesn't occur to you that Vasi was ass in two straight playoffs against the leafs?

Everyone is hurt that time of year so im not buying that excuse. The leafs outplayed Tampa and lost last year because Campbell was worse than Vasi but that's an excuse.

 

[ToneDog]

have you ever made the finals and lost (in anything) ...that feeling is much worse, especially if you never get another chance, that yes, you'd rather lose early, than be that close and fail. ...that agony stays with you a lifetime.

I always get that feeling losing in any round of playoffs I have played in. Sure it is going to hurt to lose in the SCF but when it is all said and done, I doubt players regret getting to the SCF and losing. Get there and who knows what the future holds for a young team??

 

[JT AM da real deal]

all I see is excuses...stop making excuses for other teams.

When the leafs win its excuses galore for others.


why are you making excuses for Tampa? why are the leafs the only team to make vast a pumpkin 2 years straight?

If they can't beat an AHL D in tampa then maybe we gotta sell of da entire core 4 .. be real

 

[ToneDog]

it doesn't occur to you that Vasi was ass in two straight playoffs against the leafs?

Everyone is hurt that time of year so im not buying that excuse. The leafs outplayed Tampa and lost last year because Campbell was worse than Vasi but that's an excuse.

Agree but we get outgoalied every year whereas the problem I see is that our core guys can't score in big games. When you pay 4 forwards half the cap and cheap out on goaltending, you can't blame the goalie when you lose a 2-1 game or 3-2 game in OT.

 

[ACC1224]

If not for Vasi, they would have lost in round #1. They reverted back to the same team in round #2 though. Running this core back will not work IMO. It is time for a change.

Yes he wasn’t very good and the team could have played better but they still advanced.

 

[Antropovsky]

Obvious glaring holes in his game that everyone except 3 gigahomers in here can see aside, his body language and general attitude in the playoffs is the biggest poison imo. He doesn’t get mad, he gets sad and panicky.

If he responded to getting repeatedly stripped of the puck with some dirty slashes and elbows a la Kucherov I wouldn’t even mind keeping him, but he just mopes and doubles down on his emotional on-ice decision making. For all the criticism of Matthews/Tavares/Nylander’s playoffs, at least they just don’t react when things go bad, maybe Matthews will throw a hit or two. I’ll take emotionless robots over crybabies as the “leadership” any day. Failure to inspire is preferable to actively sabotaging the teams spirits by moping like it’s over with time still left on the clock.

Agreed... No contact or grit in the playoffs, not even a bad word towards an opponent (just ask Marchand), and constant complaining about social media and criticism. And in game pouting. Whose the idiot who gave him an A? What about him makes him a leader? Marners softness makes Kessel look like George Parros.

 

[Gabriel426]

Yes he wasn’t very good and the team could have played better but they still advanced.

I agree. Did Vas played bad or did the boys made him looked bad? This is question can also be asked for past playoffs exp, did the opposing goalie made the Leafs look bad or the Leafs made it easy for the opposing goalie?

 

[ACC1224]

I agree. Did Vas played bad or did the boys made him looked bad? This is question can also be asked for past playoffs exp, did the opposing goalie made the Leafs look bad or the Leafs made it easy for the opposing goalie?

There are camps that will argue either side of that.

I’m not an excuses guy, just be better. It hasn’t been good enough.

 

[ToneDog]

I agree. Did Vas played bad or did the boys made him looked bad? This is question can also be asked for past playoffs exp, did the opposing goalie made the Leafs look bad or the Leafs made it easy for the opposing goalie?

In 8 playoff series we have made one goalie look bad. Goalied by Holtby, Rask, Elvis, Korpi, Price, Bob and Vasi when it counted last year.

 

[Gabriel426]

When it comes to any trades esp a 100pt player, it really depends on who are coming our way. Before saying you don’t trade MM(since this is a MM thread), what if the returning package is Makar or Fox? Pretty much all the trade proposals I read are non sense and I would even state that none of the trade proposals ever made on HF ever become a reality.

To me, saying let’s trade MM, the question is who are the players coming back and it applies to any players. The goal of the team is not to have MM gets 200pts in a season but rather it is to win the Cup.

The question is not can Leafs win with MM or can MM produces in the playoffs but rather can the core four forwards lead the Leafs to Cup?

As of today, the answer is NO. The next question is what can be done about it? How to improve the team to become Cup Winner

 

[Trapper]

The Leafs are defying the odds. We should be close to a second cup since 1967.

So you prefer what the Leafs have given us over a SC appearance and a shot at the SC? ALL or nothing for you. Hey some of the usual suspects gloat that the team we lose to in the playoffs usually goes on to the SCF and loses.

So we keep losing to the teams not good enough to win the Cup? Interesting.

 

[Al14]

If Matthews is willing to sign for $13-14M, and Nylander for $9M, then Marner needs to be traded.

Marner is overpaid by $3-4M for what he can't bring in the playoffs. At $8M he stays, but for his $11M he just can't stay, especially when he and his Dad are going to expect a hefty raise.

Marner is too greedy for someone claiming to be a die hard Leaf wanting to bring a Stanley Cup championship to Toronto.

It takes a full roster of 23 players to win it all in the NHL. 4 players are NOT ENOUGH. Our core has proven this over and over !!!

 

[Trapper]

If Matthews is willing to sign for $13-14M, and Nylander for $9M, then Marner needs to be traded.

Marner is overpaid by $3-4M for what he can't bring in the playoffs. At $8M he stays, but for his $11M he just can't stay, especially when he and his Dad are going to expect a hefty raise.

Marner is too greedy for someone claiming to be a die hard Leaf wanting to bring a Stanley Cup championship to Toronto.

It takes a full roster of 23 players to win it all in the NHL. 4 players are NOT ENOUGH. Our core has proven this over and over !!!

As I’ve said:
Currently
Matthews 11.6
Tavares 11
Marner 10.9
Nylander 6.9
= 40.4

Matthews 12.7 (highest paid in league)
Tavares 11
Nylander 9.5
Kempe 5.5 + 1st round and/or D Prospect
= 38.7

 

[ToneDog]

If Matthews is willing to sign for $13-14M, and Nylander for $9M, then Marner needs to be traded.

Marner is overpaid by $3-4M for what he can't bring in the playoffs. At $8M he stays, but for his $11M he just can't stay, especially when he and his Dad are going to expect a hefty raise.

Marner is too greedy for someone claiming to be a die hard Leaf wanting to bring a Stanley Cup championship to Toronto.

It takes a full roster of 23 players to win it all in the NHL. 4 players are NOT ENOUGH. Our core has proven this over and over !!!

I'd trade 88 before I pay him $9m. Trade Marner and Nylander and reload for two years at which point JT comes off the books. Marner and Nylander are never winning a SC being the alpha dogs.

As I’ve said:
Currently
Matthews 11.6
Tavares 11
Marner 10.9
Nylander 6.9
= 40.4

Matthews 12.7 (highest paid in league)
Tavares 11
Nylander 9.5
Kempe 5.5 + 1st round D Prospect
= 38.7

Nylander at 9.5m is too much. That is Tkachuk money.

 

[Trapper]

I'd trade 88 before I pay him $9m. Trade Marner and Nylander and reload for two years at which point JT comes off the books. Marner and Nylander are never winning a SC being the alpha dogs.


Nylander at 9.5m is too much. That is Tkachuk money.

I’m just going on high end/worst case. If you can reduce that, all the better. You won’t be reducing Marner. Whatever number Matthews starts with (12,13,14) you can bet Mick Marner is me too thanks.

 

[ToneDog]

I’m just going on high end/worst case. If you can reduce that, all the better. You won’t be reducing Marner. Whatever number Matthews starts with (12,13,14) you can bet Mick Marner is me too thanks.

12.7 is min for Matty. 9.5 is max for Nylander but a number I would never entertain. I still say pay Matty and trade both 16 and 88 but it is wishful thinking.

 

[BaseballCoach]

..... He also makes top 4 or maybe higher for endorsements because he's a leaf. To think he's constantly complaining about social media fans and the media calling him out for trash play? Talk about entitlement! Later Marner. You should have signed for 8 and demanded a nmc sooner - Dubas I'm sure would have done it!

NMC can only start at age 27.

 

[Trapper]

12.7 is min for Matty. 9.5 is max for Nylander but a number I would never entertain. I still say pay Matty and trade both 16 and 88 but it is wishful thinking.

I have no problem with that at all.
However, Nylander has a limited NTC so is not currently as high a priority as moving Marner.

Right now Marner should get the better return. Then later, a signed Nylander will have more value if you want to explore that option as well.

It’s tough for the new GM to just trade both after walking in. Moving a core is probably best done over a couple of years. Someone should have been moved already, then we are evaluating from there. Unfortunately we are the run it back champs.

 

[Notsince67]

If Matthews is willing to sign for $13-14M, and Nylander for $9M, then Marner needs to be traded.

Marner is overpaid by $3-4M for what he can't bring in the playoffs. At $8M he stays, but for his $11M he just can't stay, especially when he and his Dad are going to expect a hefty raise.

Marner is too greedy for someone claiming to be a die hard Leaf wanting to bring a Stanley Cup championship to Toronto.

It takes a full roster of 23 players to win it all in the NHL. 4 players are NOT ENOUGH. Our core has proven this over and over !!!

Now Nylander is worth more than Marner. What a f***ing joke of a post.

 

[Trapper]

Now Nylander is worth more than Marner. What a f***ing joke of a post.

These players are 1 contract ahead of where they should have been IMO.
Last time it should have been:
Matthews 10 (like Eichel)
Marner 8.5
Nylander 6.9 (where he is was fine)
And maybe with more years attached.

Now where they are, is what the next round should look like.
Matthews 12, Marner 10, Nylander 8.5

Maybe we would have afforded just a little better depth and be talking about getting by the conference final like Carolina is, instead of hoping to just win the first round again.

That of course assumes you believe the core is built proper for playoffs (which I don’t) but that’s a better structure IMO.