Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

[the squared circle]

Can somebody saaaay.....TRADE!

 

[ToneDog]

You say refuse to admit like it’s a black and white issue. But it’s not really. While we may not agree with the build philosophy, the fact it has not worked does not mean it inherently cannot work. It’s definitely more challenging cap wise though.

Our team was good enough to be better this year on paper. The fact we were let down mostly by our core guys in round 2, indicates this could be less of an issue with cap allocation and more with who we chose as those 4 players

Agreed it is possible they could win but how many more runs are you willing to take with these 4 before you've seen enough ?? Many agree 5 is a large enough sample size. I do agree that we'd have a better chance if JT could dominate like a player with an $11m cap hit should.

 

[WillNy29]

There are loads of non playoff teams who would die to overpay him as a 1C .. especially teams who need da playoff gates to survive .. half of nhl teams barely survive from a P&L standpoint .. which is why we have da CAP to keep teams paying salary .. if a team like Ottawa makes da playoffs and gets 6 home gates you are talking about 30M to new owner .. if he gives half to Matty he is winning .. da trade partner must be a non playoff team .. take Batherson Jacob C and 3 1st rounders and Ottawa jumps for joy .. in TO it makes no difference as team can triple salaries and still give Larry his 25M dividend .. until NHL accounts for arena sponsors in HRR this gulf will exist .. they don't because that $$$ goes to arena owner not team (except many team owners also own da arena like Leafs, Rangers, Habs) .. there is so much financials to unpack here unless you have seen Leafs numbers like I did when I was at KPMG you can't understand it .. but da big $$ teams benefit as they keep that $$$ for themselves .. it is not shared with da players 50/50

if those teams need the playoff gates then how are they going to afford to pay his overpaid salary and build a team around him to make the playoffs?

 

[Sypher04]

Well if the pundits are pointing to the fact that matthews will sign for 15 in what world would willy
Sign for 8/9. Is matthews worth 6/7 million more than willy.
Willy and his agent will point to this contract and say
Willy scored 40 too and was just as good or better than matthews in the playoffs.

When you overpay matthews like last time and now once again you can’t expect other players to get paid less when they are just as good.

Everyone talks about how great matthews is but if he was that great he would take the team on his shoulders and win a playoff like other great players do.
Im tired of seeing him get ragdolled and skating away smiling. He is 6 3 220. We trade for guys with
Zero years left on their contract. Why should these guys fight for him when he won’t fight for himself. And i dont mean drop the gloves i mean push back .

Imho matthews and his 15 million dollar contract is the one to go. We will never win a cup with one player being so greedy,

He’s not signing for $15M
Nobody who knows anything thinks that.

As for some of the points you make here:
- Matthews hasn’t been ragdolled in years and has quietly become one of the most physical forwards on the team.
- Nylander can try to compare himself to Matthews all he likes but there is no comparison. Great Nylander’s career high goals matched a down Matthews year (largely due to injury). He also isn’t a center. He has none of the hardware Matthews has 2 rockets, runner up twice, Hart trophy and runner up, Ted Lindsay and finalist. Willy also doesn’t have the defensive acumen Matthews had. The Leafs will shut down that comparison. That said I doubt the difference between the two is more than 3 or 4 million. Despite all of this, I have specifically said several times here than I see Nylander as the one we will have the most trouble re-signing.
- Matthews was overpaid for maybe 1 season at most

 

[ToneDog]

He’s not signing for $15M
Nobody who knows anything thinks that.

As for some of the points you make here:
- Matthews hasn’t been ragdolled in years and has quietly become one of the most physical forwards on the team.
- Nylander can try to compare himself to Matthews all he likes but there is no comparison. Great Nylander’s career high goals matched a down Matthews year (largely due to injury). He also isn’t a center. He has none of the hardware Matthews has 2 rockets, runner up twice, Hart trophy and runner up, Ted Lindsay and finalist. Willy also doesn’t have the defensive acumen Matthews had. The Leafs will shut down that comparison. That said I doubt the difference between the two is more than 3 or 4 million. Despite all of this, I have specifically said several times here than I see Nylander as the one we will have the most trouble re-signing.
- Matthews was overpaid for maybe 1 season at most

Clearly Matthews is not a Nylander comparison as you say. Who is the comprable the Leafs should use for Willie ?? Tkachuk @ 9.5mx8 ? No.

Forsberg, Fiala, Larkin, Kempe, Nuge, Stutzle, Brady, Keller, Miller, Skinner ?? I do not think you can pay your 3rd best forward $9+m, let alone doing it with your 4th best forward earning $11m.

 

[ULF_55]

$11mm
$12mm
$7mm

One of these is a Red Herring.

Don't let the charlatans distract you.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

if those teams need the playoff gates then how are they going to afford to pay his overpaid salary and build a team around him to make the playoffs?

Da rich owners front da salary and then they get their return with playoff gates .. at his wages and regular season play he should carry one of those teams to playoffs .. then of course he will do nothing as usual but who cares .. profits made .. they are happy .. he has never won da big game his entire life and he is not gonna start now .. but he can give great value in regular season hockey which is slower and played at a fairly non physical level

 

[WillNy29]

Da rich owners front da salary and then they get their return with playoff gates .. at his wages and regular season play he should carry one of those teams to playoffs .. then of course he will do nothing as usual but who cares .. profits made .. they are happy .. he has never won da big game his entire life and he is not gonna start now .. but he can give great value in regular season hockey which is slower and played at a fairly non physical level

didn't he have a 9 game playoff point streak, 5 goals in 6 games in round 1 and lead an iconic comeback from 4-1 down in a playoff game?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

didn't he have a 9 game playoff point streak, 5 goals in 6 games in round 1 and lead an iconic comeback from 4-1 down in a playoff game?

Yes he did .. Tampa looked like they were beat down over da years .. but he played ok in round 1 .. not outstanding but ok

 

[WillNy29]

Yes he did .. Tampa looked like they were beat down over da years .. but he played ok in round 1 .. not outstanding but ok

no he was pretty outstanding in round 1..why are you making excuses for Tampa not being able to contain him?

edited to tampa

 

[ShaneFalco]

If they sign AM, MM has to go. I'd say JT but he's not leaving

 

[JT AM da real deal]

no he was pretty outstanding in round 1..why are you making excuses for Tampa not being able to contain him?

edited to tampa

Tampa had NO D left .. Hedman was hurt real bad .. Cernak was hurt .. McD was traded .. so they had lost their best 3 D men .. Sergey is good offensively but defensively a mess .. it was an AHL D .. and AHL D don't win in da playoffs

 

[Dog]

Trade Mitch for whatever and Matthews.. Roll with Tavares and O'Reilly as the 1+2 C's. Tired of this shit.

 

[Notsince67]

All we know is we have not won much with the 3 amigos in 7 attempts. Either keep trying and hope they eventually win or make a change. Nobody wants them to make another Kadri trade.

I can see one of the 3 amigos winning a cup on another team but I do not see them winning a cup together as the top 3 players here. See Phil Kessel.

How many teams in the league has had 7 attempts in 7 years?
Answer...2...Leafs and Bruins. The rest missed the playoffs for at least one of them. 7 attempts in a row after finishing dead last in the league. 7 attempts from their rookie years.
Sounds horrible.

 

[mydnyte]

Can somebody saaaay.....TRADE!

i was able to say trade since i was 3 years old

 

[ToneDog]

How many teams in the league has had 7 attempts in 7 years?
Answer...2...Leafs and Bruins. The rest missed the playoffs for at least one of them. 7 attempts in a row after finishing dead last in the league. 7 attempts from their rookie years.
Sounds horrible.

Wonder if Vegas or Florida would trade their SCF appearance for those 7 failed attempts. Odds are it will be 8 next year if they run it back.

 

[mydnyte]

How many teams in the league has had 7 attempts in 7 years?
Answer...2...Leafs and Bruins. The rest missed the playoffs for at least one of them. 7 attempts in a row after finishing dead last in the league. 7 attempts from their rookie years.
Sounds horrible.

completely agree...
considering the Leafs should not have made the playoffs the 2 years after they drafted Matthews speaks volumes.
and our defense hasnt had a true #1 for a very long time and has been average, and undersized at best.

Wonder if Vegas or Florida would trade their SCF appearance for those 7 failed attempts. Odds are it will be 8 next year if they run it back.

i'm sorry but, a SCF appearance is meaningless if you dont win. that just makes you the best loser

 

[Notsince67]

Wonder if Vegas or Florida would trade their SCF appearance for those 7 failed attempts. Odds are it will be 8 next year if they run it back.

Odd are that any given core will take an average of 32 years to win a cup.

 

[ShaneFalco]

completely agree...
considering the Leafs should not have made the playoffs the 2 years after they drafted Matthews speaks volumes.
and our defense hasnt had a true #1 for a very long time and has been average, and undersized at best.


i'm sorry but, a SCF appearance is meaningless if you dont win. that just makes you the best loser

But yet some around here say "Yeah but we barely lost to.the SC finalist"

 

[mydnyte]

But yet some around here say "Yeah but we barely lost to.the SC finalist"

we had no chance with our core defense ..if we didnt have so many good 2-way players and team defense, we wouldnt even be a playoff team they are so bad.
Looking forward to a defense rebuild!
maybe the only good thing about the Treliving hire is his ability to produce a decent defense

 

[ToneDog]

Odd are that any given core will take an average of 32 years to win a cup.

The Leafs are defying the odds. We should be close to a second cup since 1967.

completely agree...
considering the Leafs should not have made the playoffs the 2 years after they drafted Matthews speaks volumes.
and our defense hasnt had a true #1 for a very long time and has been average, and undersized at best.


i'm sorry but, a SCF appearance is meaningless if you dont win. that just makes you the best loser

So you prefer what the Leafs have given us over a SC appearance and a shot at the SC? ALL or nothing for you. Hey some of the usual suspects gloat that the team we lose to in the playoffs usually goes on to the SCF and loses.

 

[ACC1224]

Wonder if Vegas or Florida would trade their SCF appearance for those 7 failed attempts. Odds are it will be 8 next year if they run it back.

How are those odds determined?
Last year we were told that odds are they’d lose in the first round again.

 

[ToneDog]

How are those odds determined?
Last year we were told that odds are they’d lose in the first round again.

If not for Vasi, they would have lost in round #1. They reverted back to the same team in round #2 though. Running this core back will not work IMO. It is time for a change.

 

[WillNy29]

Tampa had NO D left .. Hedman was hurt real bad .. Cernak was hurt .. McD was traded .. so they had lost their best 3 D men .. Sergey is good offensively but defensively a mess .. it was an AHL D .. and AHL D don't win in da playoffs

all I see is excuses...stop making excuses for other teams.

When the leafs win its excuses galore for others.

If not for Vasi, they would have lost in round #1. They reverted back to the same team in round #2 though. Running this core back will not work IMO. It is time for a change.

why are you making excuses for Tampa? why are the leafs the only team to make vast a pumpkin 2 years straight?

 

[Antropovsky]

Trade Mitch for whatever and Matthews.. Roll with Tavares and O'Reilly as the 1+2 C's. Tired of this shit.

Matthews is one of the best centers in the league. His 5vs5 stats are high, his faceoff percentage is high, his blocked shots high, hits are high, PIM differential high, expected goals are #1, and he competes physically in the playoffs. In the past two postseason his physical play has created numerous goals.

Problem with Matthews is that in the playoffs hes stapled to Marner and 3rd line wingers. Marner is less effective than 4th liners out there. No joke, watch game 3, Marner can't even carry the puck without it quicky being stripped. In fact very few players in the game are able to actually accelerate fast enough to skate with the puck. Nylander was one of them. Players without acceleration primarily play a cycle game and board battles. Marner does not part take in either. So he was absolutely useless, it's astonishing to watch him struggle, especially in game 3. Not only does he lack acceleration to create a gap but he's so afraid of contact that he's making premature decisions with the puck because he wants to get rid of it before a player is close enough to finish their hit. It's like hot potato to him.