Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

Trade or Keep Marner?

  • Trade Marner

    Votes: 420 67.5%
  • Keep Marner

    Votes: 183 29.4%
  • Other (explain)

    Votes: 19 3.1%

  • Total voters
    622

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
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Well, we seem to be complaining about someone who is net-positive on penalties.

Complain about people who are net negative or the lack of Marner's scoring from 5 years ago.

It seems weird to complain about the puck over the glass from 3 years ago or complain about how he is not producing when he is PPG over the last 3 years and last year he put up 14 in 11.
I don't know who's complaining about what or what that has to do with comparing two players who couldn't be more different. I can't remember anyone ever comparing Gretzky to Semenko or comparing Yzerman to Probert and I never in my wildest dreams thought I'd see anyone compare Marner to Reaves. Not only are they as different as two players could possibly be, they are also held to much different standards so why compare them to each other?

It's a very weird comparison, that's literally all I'm saying and I'm surprised you or anyone else would take issue that. But whatever, this is a Marner thread so you can go back to posting Kucherov stats again.
 
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Gary Nylund

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I agree that getting stupid penalities in the playoffs is detrimental but I can’t recall if Marner’s penalities outside of the Montreal series directly led to a game loss.

I think it’s tough to put it all on him. The reality is collectively as a group they under perform. That has to change, whether it’s bad penalties, lack of goal scoring, bad goaltending. To me it’s everything together that’s frustrating. I just find it silly we blame one guy lol. Matthews and Marner were equally horrible in the Florida series!
Not sure if that's what anyone is doing but if they are, it's wrong for sure. Lots of blame to go around, and I agree that in the playoffs, Matthews hasn't been all we'd hoped he'd be either. There's also the coach, other players etc. so no, definitely not all on Marner.

I feel like Marner is the most obvious target, maybe because his struggles most closely resemble the struggles of the team as a whole. Great in the regular season, most of the time pretty good early on in the playoffs as well but then boom, we fall off a cliff and of our high profile players, he falls harder than anyone else. He also has one of the biggest cap hits, if he made 6 million a year he'd be getting much less attention as well.

When we fall off a cliff, there are many people to point the finger at and while it's definitely not all on Marner. I do feel like he deserves a little bit more blame than anyone else. Maybe I should give him more credit for his contributions in games 1-4 before he fades, I dunno but whatever, I'm just one of millions of fans, we're all entitled to our opinions and I'm just disappointed as can be that this core has only won one playoff series when we should have won maybe 5-6 by now (maybe 4 in the 1st round and why not a few more after that). JMHO.
 
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francis246

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Nov 16, 2007
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Not sure if that's what anyone is doing but if they are, it's wrong for sure. Lots of blame to go around, and I agree that in the playoffs, Matthews hasn't been all we'd hoped he'd be either. There's also the coach, other players etc. so no, definitely not all on Marner.

I feel like Marner is the most obvious target, maybe because his struggles most closely resemble the struggles of the team as a whole. Great in the regular season, most of the time pretty good early on in the playoffs as well but then boom, we fall off a cliff and of our high profile players, he falls harder than anyone else. He also has one of the biggest cap hits, if he made 6 million a year he'd be getting much less attention as well.

When we fall off a cliff, there are many people to point the finger at and while it's definitely not all on Marner. I do feel like he deserves a little bit more blame than anyone else. Maybe I should give him more credit for his contributions in games 1-4 before he fades, I dunno but whatever, I'm just one of millions of fans, we're all entitled to our opinions and I'm just disappointed as can be that this core has only won one playoff series when we should have won maybe 5-6 by now (maybe 4 in the 1st round and why not a few more after that). JMHO.

Agreed, I also think Marner’s fall in production in the playoffs is more noticeable because he has stretches in the regular season where he is legit the best player in the NHL. So when we don’t see that in the playoffs it just gets your blood boiling. I don’t know what that missing link is. Could it be pressure? Could it be afraid of contact? Only Marner knows.
 

notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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I don't know who's complaining about what or what that has to do with comparing two players who couldn't be more different. I can't remember anyone ever comparing Gretzky to Semenko or comparing Yzerman to Probert and I never in my wildest dreams thought I'd see anyone compare Marner to Reaves. Not only are they as different as two players could possibly be, they are also held to much different standards so why compare them to each other?

It's a very weird comparison, that's literally all I'm saying and I'm surprised you or anyone else would take issue that. But whatever, this is a Marner thread so you can go back to posting Kucherov stats again.

PPG over the last 3 years, has a +10 goal differential, and +11 penalty differential, but people think he is a negative.

Keep posting about his pucks over the glass from 3/4 years ago, you've got to hold onto something.
 
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Dekes For Days

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Sep 24, 2018
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This thread: 0 points? No context needed! Marner sucks!
Also this thread: 3 point night? Yeah, but context! The team lost, so Marner sucks!

:facepalm:
 
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Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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Agreed, I also think Marner’s fall in production in the playoffs is more noticeable because he has stretches in the regular season where he is legit the best player in the NHL. So when we don’t see that in the playoffs it just gets your blood boiling. I don’t know what that missing link is. Could it be pressure? Could it be afraid of contact? Only Marner knows.
The thought has crossed my mind that playoff hockey is different so maybe Marner, and/or the team as a whole just isn't suited to playoff hockey. But then I think no, that doesn't make sense because they almost always make it to game 7. So the only thing that makes sense to me, is that it's the pressure. Something between the ears is preventing them from handling it properly and that's why I've mentioned a few times that they should be hiring the best sports shrinks in the business to pump Marner up, and when they're done with him, put in some time with the rest of them.

Or maybe they'll somehow figure it out themselves. Whatever the case, it better happen soon because we've wasted so many years already and our big guns only have a few more of years left before they start to decline. For big stars it's usually a slow decline so our window could be open for a while yet but still, you only get so many chances.

PPG over the last 3 years, has a +10 goal differential, and +11 penalty differential, but people think he is a negative.

Keep posting about his pucks over the glass from 3/4 years ago, you've got to hold onto something.
If you mean a net negative, I'd be surprised if anyone thinks that. But if they do and you want to set them straight, I'm sure you can come up with something more convincing than comparing him to Reaves. I mean what's next, pumping up Matthews by comparing him to Kampf?
 
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ACC1224

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exactly! it's so dumb, there's no winning sometimes.
Most know this to be true, rest is comic relief, no one takes them seriously.
Good news is this thread can go on for another 8 years or so!
 

notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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If you mean a net negative, I'd be surprised if anyone thinks that. But if they do and you want to set them straight, I'm sure you can come up with something more convincing than comparing him to Reaves. I mean what's next, pumping up Matthews by comparing him to Kampf?

Sure, you can compare multiple players on the team when someone is talking about penalties negatively affecting the team, I pointed out someone who you may want to be more aware of come playoff time about negatively affecting the team with dumb penalties. People act like flipping over the glass is dumber than some other penalties when it is not.

If people start to talk about Matthews' penalties (from 3/4 years ago) and he had a positive differential and someone like Kampf is very negative, so he will hurt the team more, you can point that out, it'd make sense. Not a hard concept to grasp for most.

I'm done responding since your posts are just rewording things you've already said, don't push the convo forward at all, and just overall make very little sense.
 

Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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Sure, you can compare multiple players on the team when someone is talking about penalties negatively affecting the team, I pointed out someone who you may want to be more aware of come playoff time about negatively affecting the team with dumb penalties. People act like flipping over the glass is dumber than some other penalties when it is not.

If people start to talk about Matthews' penalties (from 3/4 years ago) and he had a positive differential and someone like Kampf is very negative, so he will hurt the team more, you can point that out, it'd make sense. Not a hard concept to grasp for most.

I'm done responding since your posts are just rewording things you've already said, don't push the convo forward at all, and just overall make very little sense.
Spin it any way you want but nothing is going to change the fact that comparing Marner to Reaves is just weird, and comparing Matthews to Kampf would be weird too. If guess I could take a page from your book and add that it's "not a hard concept to grasp for most". ;)
 
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Antropovsky

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Jun 2, 2007
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This is the crap with Marner that I refer to:

Marner... changing a question about Bedard to being about himself. Marner in Marnerland.

 
Last edited:

notbias

Registered User
Feb 16, 2017
12,191
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This is the crap with Marner that I refer to:

Marner... changing a question about Bedard to being about himself. Marner in Marnerland.



What did he change? I've watched it twice to try to see...

In the first question and the second question he answered the question about Berard but used his own experience, what is the issue?
 

studebaker17

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Jan 24, 2010
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The thought has crossed my mind that playoff hockey is different so maybe Marner, and/or the team as a whole just isn't suited to playoff hockey. But then I think no, that doesn't make sense because they almost always make it to game 7. So the only thing that makes sense to me, is that it's the pressure. Something between the ears is preventing them from handling it properly and that's why I've mentioned a few times that they should be hiring the best sports shrinks in the business to pump Marner up, and when they're done with him, put in some time with the rest of them.

Or maybe they'll somehow figure it out themselves. Whatever the case, it better happen soon because we've wasted so many years already and our big guns only have a few more of years left before they start to decline. For big stars it's usually a slow decline so our window could be open for a while yet but still, you only get so many chances.
Just so many variables to consider .
As a team overall think they lack a killer instinct . They play for fun it seems . Just a personal opinion .

The pycholgical side of what you're thinking i don't think is lack of effort , or for the most part on Marners end anyways , it's trying to do to much .

Line matching in the playoffs is on a total different level than reg season and big part why that line has some troubles . Opposing coachs obviously send their most trusted lines and d pairs out as much as possible against them . It's a bit smoke and mirrors looking at goal differentials against line matchs because opposing lines are not trying to score against the leafs line . They're out there strictly to shut them down . Then send their best line out against Tavares line because the goal differential will favor the opposing team . It's worked great with every team until Tampa playing the leafs like that . Then Florida was a different animal . Think the dirty hits and rough play shook the leafs up .
So coaching has to come into play here doesn't it ? Teams not prepared to come out early , or finish off teams . Coach won't split his tallent up when it's obviously not working .

I knew they wouldn't beat Florida when Knies went down with a dirty hit and nobody did a thing . They looked scared . Then Gudas et al were just running around freely not just hitting but hurting Leafs players . This is playoff hockey and it won't change so as conn Smyth said if you can't beat them in the alley ....

Goaltending has been an archiles heal for the leafs . 1 series only where we may of had the better tending . Playoff winners are almost always the team with the better goalie .

On an individual scale of who performed or not up to their reg season levels or elevated it past honestly can say imo the only one was Reilly . Nylander was ok but went missing at times also . Just how i seen it but reilly was the only consistant one.

I'm not sure this teams an easy change to become winners . Maybe they like you say do it from within themselves . Or maybe Woll is the difference needed ? Up to date they've changed pretty much everything but the core 5 .

I know it's a Marner discussion but Marners only one player on a team that's all failing , he's just the main lightening rod . That said , why should he be any more of a lightening rod than any of the top guys ?
 
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ACC1224

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Just so many variables to consider .
As a team overall think they lack a killer instinct . They play for fun it seems . Just a personal opinion .

The pycholgical side of what you're thinking i don't think is lack of effort , or for the most part on Marners end anyways , it's trying to do to much .

Line matching in the playoffs is on a total different level than reg season and big part why that line has some troubles . Opposing coachs obviously send their most trusted lines and d pairs out as much as possible against them . It's a bit smoke and mirrors looking at goal differentials against line matchs because opposing lines are not trying to score against the leafs line . They're out there strictly to shut them down . Then send their best line out against Tavares line because the goal differential will favor the opposing team . It's worked great with every team until Tampa playing the leafs like that . Then Florida was a different animal . Think the dirty hits and rough play shook the leafs up .
So coaching has to come into play here doesn't it ? Teams not prepared to come out early , or finish off teams . Coach won't split his tallent up when it's obviously not working .

I knew they wouldn't beat Florida when Knies went down with a dirty hit and nobody did a thing . They looked scared . Then Gudas et al were just running around freely not just hitting but hurting Leafs players . This is playoff hockey and it won't change so as conn Smyth said if you can't beat them in the alley ....

Goaltending has been an archiles heal for the leafs . 1 series only where we may of had the better tending . Playoff winners are almost always the team with the better goalie .

On an individual scale of who performed or not up to their reg season levels or elevated it past honestly can say imo the only one was Reilly . Nylander was ok but went missing at times also . Just how i seen it but reilly was the only consistant one.

I'm not sure this teams an easy change to become winners . Maybe they like you say do it from within themselves . Or maybe Woll is the difference needed ? Up to date they've changed pretty much everything but the core 5 .

I know it's a Marner discussion but Marners only one player on a team that's all failing , he's just the main lightening rod . That said , why should he be any more of a lightening rod than any of the top guys ?
Good post. :thumbu:
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
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Just so many variables to consider .
As a team overall think they lack a killer instinct . They play for fun it seems . Just a personal opinion .

The pycholgical side of what you're thinking i don't think is lack of effort , or for the most part on Marners end anyways , it's trying to do to much .

Line matching in the playoffs is on a total different level than reg season and big part why that line has some troubles . Opposing coachs obviously send their most trusted lines and d pairs out as much as possible against them . It's a bit smoke and mirrors looking at goal differentials against line matchs because opposing lines are not trying to score against the leafs line . They're out there strictly to shut them down . Then send their best line out against Tavares line because the goal differential will favor the opposing team . It's worked great with every team until Tampa playing the leafs like that . Then Florida was a different animal . Think the dirty hits and rough play shook the leafs up .
So coaching has to come into play here doesn't it ? Teams not prepared to come out early , or finish off teams . Coach won't split his tallent up when it's obviously not working .

I knew they wouldn't beat Florida when Knies went down with a dirty hit and nobody did a thing . They looked scared . Then Gudas et al were just running around freely not just hitting but hurting Leafs players . This is playoff hockey and it won't change so as conn Smyth said if you can't beat them in the alley ....

Goaltending has been an archiles heal for the leafs . 1 series only where we may of had the better tending . Playoff winners are almost always the team with the better goalie .

On an individual scale of who performed or not up to their reg season levels or elevated it past honestly can say imo the only one was Reilly . Nylander was ok but went missing at times also . Just how i seen it but reilly was the only consistant one.

I'm not sure this teams an easy change to become winners . Maybe they like you say do it from within themselves . Or maybe Woll is the difference needed ? Up to date they've changed pretty much everything but the core 5 .

I know it's a Marner discussion but Marners only one player on a team that's all failing , he's just the main lightening rod . That said , why should he be any more of a lightening rod than any of the top guys ?
Why we keep failing just when the finish line is in sight is tough to answer, kudos for taking the time to express all these interesting thoughts.

When you say "I knew they wouldn't beat Florida when Knies went down with a dirty hit and nobody did a thing . They looked scared", that reminds me of the poster who said he knew this core would never win anything the night we went to Long Island for the first time with Tavares and got run out of the rink. I mean I hope he turns out to be wrong as do we all, but so far it looks like he was on to something and that jives with another thing you said - "they lack a killer instinct . They play for fun it seems . ".

And maybe it's as simple as that. There's a ton of talent but they lack the willingness to pay the price required to win when the going gets tough. They enjoy winning, but only if they don't have to exert themselves too much and overcome a ton of adversity in the process. Reminds me of an acronym I picked up in another forum - WIM. WIM stands for Wants It More and maybe the lack of WIM is the reason we lost all those game 7's in embarrassing fashion.

I think you're right about Rielly being the only one who hasn't come up short in the playoffs, too bad they didn't make him captain.

Re. Marner, I could give my answer but probably no point. It's all been said before, no need to get his defenders all riled up, let's hope he and the team get over the hump next spring, and then everyone will be happy.
 
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studebaker17

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Jan 24, 2010
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And maybe it's as simple as that. There's a ton of talent but they lack the willingness to pay the price required to win when the going gets tough. They enjoy winning, but only if they don't have to exert themselves too much and overcome a ton of adversity in the process. Reminds me of an acronym I picked up in another forum - WIM. WIM stands for Wants It More and maybe the lack of WIM is the reason we lost all those game 7's in embarrassing fashion.
Don't think it's not exerting themselves or paying the price so much as they're just genuine nice guy sportsman type of players that don't have a mean bone in their body . Someone back a few pages said when Tkchuk punched Marner he looked like his feelings were hurt more than anything . That epitomises this entire team for me .
 

Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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Don't think it's not exerting themselves or paying the price so much as they're just genuine nice guy sportsman type of players that don't have a mean bone in their body . Someone back a few pages said when Tkchuk punched Marner he looked like his feelings were hurt more than anything . That epitomises this entire team for me .
Yikes!. If that really happened, that's pretty bad.
 

polarbear4

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Oct 31, 2023
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Question from a newbie: isn’t hockey like the hardest moneyball game there is?
Ie you evaluate players solely on their performance vs their cap? What am i missing with all these player comparisons 1:1 without considering contract?

Example: (avg last 2 seasons)

Marner cap 10,95

Reg Points/$m: 8,95

Reg Goals/$m: 2,97

Playoff p/game/$m: 0,11

Playoff goals/game/$m: 0,02



Mathews cap 11,6

Reg Points/$m: 8,28

Reg Goals/$m: 4,31

Playoff p/game/$m: 0,10

Playoff goals/game/$m: 0,04



Nylander cap 6,95

Reg Points/$m: 12,01

Reg Goals/$m: 5,32

Playoff p/game/$m: 0,14

Playoff goals/game/$m: 0,06
 

Niagara Bill

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Oct 11, 2021
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Agreed, I also think Marner’s fall in production in the playoffs is more noticeable because he has stretches in the regular season where he is legit the best player in the NHL. So when we don’t see that in the playoffs it just gets your blood boiling. I don’t know what that missing link is. Could it be pressure? Could it be afraid of contact? Only Marner knows.
Or ask Mrs. Mitchy,
 
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Antropovsky

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Jun 2, 2007
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7,487
Marner gets a huge free pass compared to Nylander and Tavares when he's struggling. He needs to be much better.
And both don't get upset with the media or fans. Marner keeps complaining in the media about the criticism. I'm a bit surprised, that management hasn't sat him down and asked him to stop bringing it up.
 

Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
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7,487
With a grand total of 3 even strength points, Marner is tied for 186th in the league. While playing on a line with Matthews.

.. Not looking good for Gretzky 2.0. Definitely looking sneaky bad.
 

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