Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

[Gary Nylund]

Average more than a point per game and likely play the most minutes of any forward on the team.

I don't really care how often the coach decides to send him out there, I'm more interested in whether or not he fades away again when the going gets tough like he usually does after games 1-4 in any series, and especially the way he did in game 3 against Florida.

 

[Arzak]

I don't really care how often the coach decides to send him out there, I'm more interested in whether or not he fades away again when the going gets tough like he usually does after games 1-4 in any series, and especially the way he did in game 3 against Florida.

He is playing 30min per game with Matthews - arguably the best goal-scorer in the league. That alone with a place on the 1st PP should guarantee him some points. A point that is rarely if ever brought up.

Mitch got the best PR in the league. How else can you explain "Mitch Marner makes everyone he plays with better" narrative? Or the fact that the only thing making him "PK elite" is his ability to score ok PK, not actual defensive skills, but that elite PK is big part of his Selke winger persona!

Let's assume MM fans are right. $13.5M Matthews would cost us how much, assuming his number would be at their natural level, not elevated by Mitch Marner. $10M ? $13.499?

We need a poll with these two options.

 

[IPS]

I'd like to see Marner back with Tavares.

I don't think Nylander will skip a beat with Matthews and Marner has always had a strong chemistry with JT. JT is also playing very well and can help spark Marner. I've always thought a Bertuzzi-Tavares-Marner line would end up being a very strong line.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Or the fact that the only thing making him "PK elite" is his ability to score ok PK, not actual defensive skills

That's not true at all. He's elite defensively on the PK too. He faces some of the toughest assignments in the league, and has some of the best defensive results in the league.

 

[Arzak]

That's not true at all. He's elite defensively on the PK too. He faces some of the toughest assignments in the league, and has some of the best defensive results in the league.

We'll just have to take your word for it

We have 40M in 4 forwards, yet it's not opposing PK facing the toughest assignments? Nope it's Mitch Marner.

His goals allowed on PK per 60 is anything but elite.
Excesses and wishful thinking when it comes to Marner's defensive game.


How would you rate his defensive game throughout the first 8 games?

 

[hullsy47]

Trade this chump. I'd see if Anaheim would consider dealing that #2 pick for a Marner package. Maybe a pipe dream but Fantilli would be a welcome change

this is gonna be a MSLE board decision .IMO brad treliving is gonna be taking brendan shanahans job maybe as early as april.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Without reading this horribly long thread, why do people think the Leafs can trade a local guy with a no movement clause? I don't think he would accept it myself and he's also almost point a game right now.

The only really valuable piece they can trade is Nylander with his partial NTC. Complicated because he's the best player on the team currently (except maybe Woll) but his father had a LONG history of having career years during contract negotiations, going to the highest bidder then sucking bad after that. And who do you think Will is getting the most advice from? Personally I'd stick with the we-can-and-we-will approach because I like all of the top players but either way, I doubt Mitch is going anywhere.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We'll just have to take your word for it
We have 40M in 4 forwards, yet it's not opposing PK facing the toughest assignments? Nope it's Mitch Marner.

Of course facing our top unit is a tough assignment for opposing PKs.
Similarly, Marner faces the top units of other teams, and is put out there in our most difficult situations.
You don't have to take my word for it. It's not only really easy to see who is sent out there and when, when you watch the games, but also pretty easily verifiable.
And his defensive results are elite. In fact, his closest comparable in defensive results on the PK over the past 3 seasons is probably Patrice Bergeron.
6.52 vs. 6.51 xGA/60. Which ranks near the top of the league.

 

[ACC1224]

Without reading this horribly long thread, why do people think the Leafs can trade a local guy with a no movement clause? I don't think he would accept it myself and he's also almost point a game right now.

The only really valuable piece they can trade is Nylander with his partial NTC. Complicated because he's the best player on the team currently (except maybe Woll) but his father had a LONG history of having career years during contract negotiations, going to the highest bidder then sucking bad after that. And who do you think Will is getting the most advice from? Personally I'd stick with the we-can-and-we-will approach because I like all of the top players but either way, I doubt Mitch is going anywhere.

Of course he’s not going anywhere and we can look forward to another 10 years or so of blind hate and made up facts.
Nylander isn’t going anywhere either unless he chooses to.

 

[Canadian Finn]

.... blind hate and made up facts.

or

maybe he changes how he plays.

(I feel like I know which option is more likely)

 

[thewave]

Without reading this horribly long thread, why do people think the Leafs can trade a local guy with a no movement clause? I don't think he would accept it myself and he's also almost point a game right now.

The only really valuable piece they can trade is Nylander with his partial NTC. Complicated because he's the best player on the team currently (except maybe Woll) but his father had a LONG history of having career years during contract negotiations, going to the highest bidder then sucking bad after that. And who do you think Will is getting the most advice from? Personally I'd stick with the we-can-and-we-will approach because I like all of the top players but either way, I doubt Mitch is going anywhere.

Your points are fine. Nylander may fall off after a contract, but we could trade him for something kind of okay and then Marner could set up for another hostile negotiation and demand 13m. He isnt worth his current contract.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Your points are fine. Nylander may fall off after a contract, but we could trade him for something kind of okay and then Marner could set up for another hostile negotiation and demand 13m. He isnt worth his current contract.

Their window was June 28-July 1 to trade Marner if that's what they wanted. Too late now and they can either pay him what he wants or lose him for nothing. I don't think there's any in between because I don't think he'll accept a trade. He's holding all the cards and someone's going to pay him that $13M guaranteed. The best we can hope for is he gives the team mercy. Just opinions.

 

[Antropovsky]

Marner has struggled with playoff hockey ever since 2017. That's 7 years! Do we really think that he's just been unlucky and that suddenly he will figure it out?

The definition of insanity is doing something over and over again, but expecting different results”

Here is an article from the 2017 postseason describing Marner struggling with playoff hockey. With Babcock and other teammates chiming in Marners play/struggles:

Maple Leafs' Mitch Marner struggles through the key lesson of NHL playoff hockey: ‘He's got to dig in’​

His assists in the series against Washington keep his production number up but he's been mostly invisible so far

He’s got to dig in,” Babcock said Saturday. “Everything about guys who score and feed off having the puck, sometimes in the playoffs you never get the puck. So you’ve got to come to grips with that and then enjoy the touches you do have and work hard to get it back.

In a post-season where first-year players such as Pittsburgh’s Jake Guentzel and Toronto’s Auston Matthews have been outperforming seasoned veterans, it’s time for Marner to dominate. He needs to score. He needs to be a factor if the Leafs hope to force a Game 7.

For that to happen, he needs to play more.

Marner averaged close to 17 minutes per game in the regular season, but was on the ice for less than 14 minutes in Game 4 and despite going to overtime in Game 5 logged just 14 minutes and 29 seconds.

That might explain why Marner isn’t a offensive factor. Then again, he hasn’t exactly earned any extra minutes.

“I mean it’s not easy to produce in the playoffs,” Tyler Bozak, Marner’s linemate, said. “It’s a lot tighter, there’s less opportunities. He got a big goal for us early in the season to get us going. He’s had a few assists since then. I think he’s doing fine.”
“Listen, he’s a great player but it’s the time of year. It’s not easy for anyone to produce,” Martin said of Marner....."it’s not just special teams all over the place. People are desperate and want to win the come. People are coming back that much harder and blocking shots. It’s just a hard time to put the puck in to the back of the net.”

Maple Leafs' Mitch Marner struggles through the key lesson of NHL playoff hockey: ‘He's got to dig in’

His assists in the series against Washington keep his production number up but he's been mostly invisible so far

www.google.com

 

[Smif]

Matthews has scored in what 3 out of 8 games, and first 2 games he scored hat-tricks.

Hard for some players to put up points if their linemate isn't scoring goals.

I'm not worried about marner.

Actually, this was my thought as well. Matthews first 6 goals in two games didn't impress me much, there were some really odd goals in there that shouldn't have gone in. The whole first line is not producing points. Good thing is their not fetting sxored on either though and the second line is hot.

 

[thewave]

Actually, this was my thought as well. Matthews first 6 goals in two games didn't impress me much, there were some really odd goals in there that shouldn't have gone in. The whole first line is not producing points. Good thing is their not fetting sxored on either though and the second line is hot.

And Keefe won't even try an obviously struggling Marner somewhere else. There are multiple times that Marner wrecks a play that could give AM a scoring chance right now.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Without reading this horribly long thread, why do people think the Leafs can trade a local guy with a no movement clause? I don't think he would accept it myself and he's also almost point a game right now.

The only really valuable piece they can trade is Nylander with his partial NTC. Complicated because he's the best player on the team currently (except maybe Woll) but his father had a LONG history of having career years during contract negotiations, going to the highest bidder then sucking bad after that. And who do you think Will is getting the most advice from? Personally I'd stick with the we-can-and-we-will approach because I like all of the top players but either way, I doubt Mitch is going anywhere.

Is it a contract year or has he just getting better every season? Other than the holdout year his PPG has been climbing for 5 years straight. It’s not a Kadri situation where he was a 50 point guy for 5 years and then exploded to almost double that in a contract year getting double his usual PP time.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Is it a contract year or has he just getting better every season? Other than the holdout year his PPG has been climbing for 5 years straight. It’s not a Kadri situation where he was a 50 point guy for 5 years and then exploded to almost double that in a contract year getting double his usual PP time.

If you're talking about Nylander I said he's currently the best player on the team. But he's definitely a little better so far this season as well as in last year's playoffs and I think you need to review his dad's career progress to understand why I'm a *tiny bit* skeptical. I also said I hope they sign them all. I have no agenda here.

 

[Yall are crazy]

Something definitely seems off with Mitch this year. He seems slower and definitely less involved. In previous years, he was puck hungry, always creating plays, going after the puck, etc. For whatever reason this year, he seems hesitant and falls back off the play constantly. I don't know if it's a new system but he's definitely not the same player as years past.

Yall vontunie to make up whatever false narratives you want bc I distinctly remember you saying the same things last year and the year before. What's this talk about in previous years he was puck hungry, creating plays, when yall were calling him shit and trash. Make it make sense

 

[Arzak]

Their window was June 28-July 1 to trade Marner if that's what they wanted. Too late now and they can either pay him what he wants or lose him for nothing. I don't think there's any in between because I don't think he'll accept a trade. He's holding all the cards and someone's going to pay him that $13M guaranteed. The best we can hope for is he gives the team mercy. Just opinions.

That's madness, no one is paying $13M for Mitch Marner, unless we do.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Of course he’s not going anywhere and we can look forward to another 10 years or so of blind hate and made up facts.
Nylander isn’t going anywhere either unless he chooses to.

If you think objectively looking at Marner, considering both the positives and the negatives is "blind hate", then it's you Paul that is blind. And BTW, there's no such thing as "made up facts".

And saying "Nylander isn’t going anywhere either" makes no sense whatsoever. Do you see why?

Their window was June 28-July 1 to trade Marner if that's what they wanted. Too late now and they can either pay him what he wants or lose him for nothing. I don't think there's any in between because I don't think he'll accept a trade. He's holding all the cards and someone's going to pay him that $13M guaranteed. The best we can hope for is he gives the team mercy. Just opinions.

How sure are you about this?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

That's madness, no one is paying $13M for Mitch Marner, unless we do.

Well that's a loaded claim. How can I prove we'd pay him that much money only if others would pay him that much money if we pay him first? Let's just make a friendly bet with an online handshake at the end someone (maybe us) pays him as much as Matthews. Deal?

If you think objectively looking at Marner, considering both the positives and the negatives is "blind hate", then it's you Paul that is blind. And BTW, there's no such thing as "made up facts".

And saying "Nylander isn’t going anywhere either" makes no sense whatsoever. Do you see why?


How sure are you about this?

I'm not but I feel pretty confident saying it. The market keeps going up every year and he's not a bum. I think he gets to set his price.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Actually, this was my thought as well. Matthews first 6 goals in two games didn't impress me much, there were some really odd goals in there that shouldn't have gone in. The whole first line is not producing points. Good thing is their not fetting sxored on either though and the second line is hot.

I agree that the line isn't producing at the moment, but I find it funny that the idea that 'Matty isn't doing his job (scoring), which is why Mitch isn't getting points' seems reasonable, but the other side of the coin, 'Mitch isn't doing his job (setting up), which is why Matty isn't scoring' doesn't seem to get equal play.

 

[ToneDog]

Well that's a loaded claim. How can I prove we'd pay him that much money only if others would pay him that much money if we pay him first? Let's just make a friendly bet with an online handshake at the end someone (maybe us) pays him as much as Matthews. Deal?



I'm not but I feel pretty confident saying it. The market keeps going up every year and he's not a bum. I think he gets to set his price.

Come on. Who is paying 88 1.75m more than Pasta? Willie will be lucky to get 10 IMO and that is assuming he keeps playing at this level, which I doubt.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Come on. Who is paying 88 1.75m more than Pasta? Willie will be lucky to get 10 IMO and that is assuming he keeps playing at this level, which I doubt.

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought we were talking about Marner. Yes, I expect Nylander to be in the $10M range.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Come on. Who is paying 88 1.75m more than Pasta? Willie will be lucky to get 10 IMO and that is assuming he keeps playing at this level, which I doubt.

He said $13M for Mitch, not Willy.

I don't think either one will get that (except maybe in Toronto), but if one of them did (somewhere else) I think it's more likely to be Willy.