Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

[mapleleaf979]

Nylander if he remains engaged all year like he is showing so far, he is superior to Marner.

 

[francis246]

And I thank you for sharing your opinions as well. I'll just add that maybe some people do hate Marner, I can't say for sure one way or the other. All I can say is that I've never seen anyone post "I hate Marner" or words to that effect but I don't read every post here so it's obviously possible I missed it. Or maybe I'm taking the concept of hate too literally, I do understand that some people really seem to have it in for him, hate just seems like a really strong word to use about a person we don't even know really.


Wow! I was not expecting that, that's something you hardly ever see around here, I do appreciate that and you are now officially among the posters who I have a ton of respect for. I'll just add that I sometimes post in a way that I'm not exactly proud of later and while most of the time I like to think I'm pretty reasonable, I can do better and your post has inspired me to do just that!

I’m always one to admit when I’m wrong and in that case I was wrong and too prideful to admit it. Lol it’s what I teach my students everyday. Plus I was serious before I did quite enjoy our conversations even if we opposed sometimes. It was good discussion.

Main thing is we are all fans of the same team, so we all shouldn’t be bashing each other. Seems kinda dumb for me to be petty. Glad we can bury it, move on, get back to hoping we win.

 

[ACC1224]

Nylander if he remains engaged all year like he is showing so far, he is superior to Marner.

Offensively for sure.

 

[thusk]

1st bolded - IMO Keefe should be playing Nylander a LOT more when trailing, that would reduce the burden on M&M.

2nd bolded - If you mean regular season, just play them less, no need to overplay them when trailing. The regular season record matters so little - we're going to make the playoffs and having everyone rested and ready to grind for two months is so much more important than home ice in the playoffs. We're 1-7 in playoff series with this core and that's because we keep choking in game 7's, home ice has nothing to do with it. JMHO.

1-
At 5v5 in playoff last 2
Matthews 18:40
Marner 17:13
Nylander 15:37


Considerating marner played every high defrnsive situation like protecting a lead late in 3rd period or whatever...so nylander had as much or extremely close to play as much time than marner on offensive situation

2- playing 18 minutes game 70 is not what will making you playing less than 23-25 minutes/game come playoff time.. so i dont know where you want to go but we clearly not talking about the same thing.

 

[Gary Nylund]

1-
At 5v5 in playoff last 2
Matthews 18:40
Marner 17:13
Nylander 15:37


Considerating marner played every high defrnsive situation like protecting a lead late in 3rd period or whatever...so nylander had as much or extremely close to play as much time than marner on offensive situation

2- playing 18 minutes game 70 is not what will making you playing less than 23-25 minutes/game come playoff time.. so i dont know where you want to go but we clearly not talking about the same thing.

1 - Forget 5v5, look at overall minutes. Nylander played way less than M&M, clearly he was fresh so IMO we should be double shifting him at times - why not send him out there with the 4th line now and then when we need a goal. Lord knows we have so often lost in the playoffs because we were trailing and unable to score and Nylander is just sitting there on the bench ...

2 - That sentence is muddled/confusing so not sure I understand your meaning. I thought you were asking how do we play the stars less. I assume you were talking about the regular season and many people have speculated that Keefe is guilty of burning out our stars in the regular season so I can see why that would be a concern, my apologies if I misunderstood. If I did then perhaps you can clarify, what were you talking about?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Do you mean that one time five years ago, when he was too scared to take a hit and threw a puck over the glass?

2018 Game 2: Puck over glass
2018 Game 6: Puck over glass
2019 Game 5: Puck over glass
2021 Game 1: Puck over glass
2021 Game 6: Puck over glass

Puck (singular ) over the glass , more like a bag of pucks, year after year and when he's not dishing souvenirs for fans, we can still experience game 3 like we did this year?

Playoff beast that one.

That's just so weird. I don't know where to look this stuff up (and I'm probably too lazy anyway TBH) but I can't help but wonder, in that 4 year time frame, how many such penalties did the rest of our team take? It's not something that happens all that often so I'm thinking it's even possible that Marner took more puck over glass penalties in those years than the rest of the guys on the team combined which if true, is pretty mind blowing. He's supposed be such a smart player (and most of the time he is). how is it even possible this keeps happening?

Another thought - in those 4 years, how many times did he do this during the regular season? Would be hilarious if that number was zero. At the same time, it wouldn't shock me either as regular season Marner is a hero, it's just the playoffs where he's not quite as consistent and reliable.

To be fair, if the last time was in 2021 then maybe he's finally learned his lesson, here's hoping we never see him penalized for this again in the playoffs, at least not in a key moment, if we're up or down by 4 goals then who cares.

 

[Arzak]

That's just so weird. I don't know where to look this stuff up (and I'm probably too lazy anyway TBH) but I can't help but wonder, in that 4 year time frame, how many such penalties did the rest of our team take? It's not something that happens all that often so I'm thinking it's even possible that Marner took more puck over glass penalties in those years than the rest of the guys on the team combined which if true, is pretty mind blowing. He's supposed be such a smart player (and most of the time he is). how is it even possible this keeps happening?

To be fair, if the last time was in 2021 then maybe he's finally learned his lesson, here's hoping we never see him penalized for this again in the playoffs, at least not in a key moment, if we're up or down by 4 goals then who cares.

IcyData » Player Stats » Penalties for 2019-2020 Playoffs

IcyData provides in-depth National Hockey League stats and analysis

www.icydata.hockey

A quick check shows you it's Marner 5 times , plus one-time Gordano, Zaitsev, Holl, Nylander,Rielly and Foligno .

It feels like a lot tbh. Still, Marner got the same amount as the rest of the team combined.

 

[thusk]

1 - Forget 5v5, look at overall minutes. Nylander played way less than M&M, clearly he was fresh so IMO we should be double shifting him at times - why not send him out there with the 4th line now and then when we need a goal. Lord knows we have so often lost in the playoffs because we were trailing and unable to score and Nylander is just sitting there on the bench ...

2 - That sentence is muddled/confusing so not sure I understand your meaning. I thought you were asking how do we play the stars less. I assume you were talking about the regular season and many people have speculated that Keefe is guilty of burning out our stars in the regular season so I can see why that would be a concern, my apologies if I misunderstood. If I did then perhaps you can clarify, what were you talking about?

Talking unstead of using marner 23-25 and get a marner/Matthews in a save energy mode all game long... try to drop their ice time around 18 to 20 minutes and get matthews/Marner at 109% everytime their hit the ice

If the solution is just to raise nylander and tavares ice time to reduce matthews/ marner ice time...maybe at the end maybe that will help to raise mm and AM energy but will creat the same exact problem with nylander and jt...

It is possible than the only reason why nylander was looking like a player playing with more determination and energy at time during playoff or on clutche moment... its only the fact hes playing less and having more energy left?

But when youre trailing 50% of the time, pretty hard to keep them fresh

 

[Gary Nylund]

Talking unstead of using marner 23-25 and get a marner/Matthews in a save energy mode all game long... try to drop their ice time around 18 to 20 minutes and get matthews/Marner at 109% everytime their hit the ice

If the solution is just to raise nylander and tavares ice time to reduce matthews/ marner ice time...maybe at the end maybe that will help to raise mm and AM energy but will creat the same exact problem with nylander and jt...

It is possible than the only reason why nylander was looking like a player playing with more determination and energy at time during playoff or on clutche moment... its only the fact hes playing less and having more energy left?

But when youre trailing 50% of the time, pretty hard to keep them fresh

My suggestion would be to consider playing M&M less during the season, especially Marner. Make sure they're fresh for the playoffs, that should be the priority. I vaguely remember one game late in the season where Marner played an absurd number of minutes (26+?) and many of us were left wondering why.

In the playoffs you ride your stars, I think maybe we can all agree on that. There were cases where we desperately needed a goal and those are the situations where Nylander excels. The knock on him is defence so I get not playing him a ton when we're hanging on to a one goal lead late in the game but when we need to score, WTF is Keefe doing sitting him on the bench so much?

Last playoffs, Marner played over 24 minutes per game, Nylander played less than 19. That's just insane IMO, it is my biggest issue with Keefe and I would have fired him for that alone if he couldn't give me a good reason for this and I can't imagine what the reason could possibly be.

Free Willy!

 

[thusk]

My suggestion would be to consider playing M&M less during the season, especially Marner. Make sure they're fresh for the playoffs, that should be the priority. I vaguely remember one game late in the season where Marner played an absurd number of minutes (26+?) and many of us were left wondering why.

In the playoffs you ride your stars, I think maybe we can all agree on that. There were cases where we desperately needed a goal and those are the situations where Nylander excels. The knock on him is defence so I get not playing him a ton when we're hanging on to a one goal lead late in the game but when we need to score, WTF is Keefe doing sitting him on the bench so much?

Last playoffs, Marner played over 24 minutes per game, Nylander played less than 19. That's just insane IMO, it is my biggest issue with Keefe and I would have fired him for that alone if he couldn't give me a good reason for this and I can't imagine what the reason could possibly be.

Free Willy!

Its exactly what i said 24 its just way too mucb

Last time tampa won it
Point was ice time leader at 18:55
Kucherov 18:18

Colorado mac 21:25 Landeskog 20:58

Vegas eichel 19:00
Stone 18:55

Marner last 3 season, his lowest had been at 22:56 and 22:14 for matthews ... it was last season and for me it was easily the best series leafs played last 7 years...( despite they lost vs win it this season)

For me keeping nylander and tavares around 18-19M keep matthews/marner around 20-21. Thats what you need


.. but toget that, you cant trailed all game long because your goalie cant do their job....i count 11 time leafs goalies allowing a weak goal 1st half ( 1st + 1st half of 2nd) of the game who gave up lead or tied the game. 11 of 25 (44%) games leafs played. Its just way too much, you cant just only hope winning a cup that way

 

[Gary Nylund]

Its exactly what i said 24 its just way too mucb

Last time tampa won it
Point was ice time leader at 18:55
Kucherov 18:18

Colorado mac 21:25 Landeskog 20:58

Vegas eichel 19:00
Stone 18:55

Marner last 3 season, his lowest had been at 22:56 and 22:14 for matthews ... it was last season and for me it was easily the best series leafs played last 7 years...( despite they lost vs win it this season)

For me keeping nylander and tavares around 18-19M keep matthews/marner around 20-21. Thats what you need


.. but toget that, you cant trailed all game long because your goalie cant do their job....i count 11 time leafs goalies allowing a weak goal 1st half ( 1st + 1st half of 2nd) of the game who gave up lead or tied the game. 11 of 25 (44%) games leafs played. Its just way too much, you cant just only hope winning a cup that way

That's interesting indeed, thank you for that - I would not have thought that the TB guys played so few minutes. Hard to say what the exact right number of minutes is but I agree 24 is way too much. The other thing is as I mentioned before, Marner playing 5+ minutes more than Nylander is insane.

Off the top of my head I'd say M&M around 21-22, Nylander and Tavares at 19-20 and if we badly need a goal in the 3rd, bump up Nylander's minutes.

And regular season, just keep everyone under 20 minutes and be rested for the playoffs. JMHO.

 

[thewave]

My suggestion would be to consider playing M&M less during the season, especially Marner. Make sure they're fresh for the playoffs, that should be the priority. I vaguely remember one game late in the season where Marner played an absurd number of minutes (26+?) and many of us were left wondering why.

In the playoffs you ride your stars, I think maybe we can all agree on that. There were cases where we desperately needed a goal and those are the situations where Nylander excels. The knock on him is defence so I get not playing him a ton when we're hanging on to a one goal lead late in the game but when we need to score, WTF is Keefe doing sitting him on the bench so much?

Last playoffs, Marner played over 24 minutes per game, Nylander played less than 19. That's just insane IMO, it is my biggest issue with Keefe and I would have fired him for that alone if he couldn't give me a good reason for this and I can't imagine what the reason could possibly be.

Free Willy!

MM was pushing 30mins some games with under 15 to go in the season. That was Keefe being dumb. The whole star winger PKing thing is dumb mostly. Maybe reserved for when you're down a goal in tye third or something.

I swear MM and his dad put together a spreadsheet of the things that guys get paid for (advanced stat edition) and he plays based on it. Now its float a shot in from the blue line for corsi, i cant be the only one that notices this.

 

[Gary Nylund]

MM was pushing 30mins some games with under 15 to go in the season. That was Keefe being dumb. The whole star winger PKing thing is dumb mostly. Maybe reserved for when you're down a goal in tye third or something.

I swear MM and his dad put together a spreadsheet of the things that guys get paid for (advanced stat edition) and he plays based on it. Now its float a shot in from the blue line for corsi, i cant be the only one that notices this.

I probably like Keefe better than many people here but still, some of the things does are just so nutso, enough for me to fire his ass anyway.

I don't think there's anything wrong with star players killing penalties, I mean 99 did it, no stars bigger than him so why not Marner? In any case, he sure is fun to watch on the PK!

 

[Gary Nylund]

A quick check shows you it's Marner 5 times , plus one-time Gordano, Zaitsev, Holl, Nylander,Rielly and Foligno .

It feels like a lot tbh. Still, Marner got the same amount as the rest of the team combined.

Feels like a lot? It is a lot! It's an absolute crap ton FFS, just an incredible stat. But OK, last time was a couple of years ago let's hope he's over it now. f***ing guy just frustrates the heck out of me sometimes, he's so talented, high hockey IQ yada yada yada but then he has the weirdest brain farts in key moments and disappears in a huge playoff game every now and then. 97% of the time he's money in the bank but that other 3% appears at the worst possible times ...

 

[Antropovsky]

Given the amount of minutes he plays and who his linemates are, his numbers are dreadful this year (as they are every playoffs as well). He only shows up in highlights because he's on the PP. Even then, he just executes the set play from the side of the net to the best goal scorer in the NHL.

Recall that in 2019 after Tavares big year, Sportsnets Berkshire (I believe) reported that Marner might he the most overrated player 5vs5 and that in fact Tavares was the play driver on that line 5vs5. Berkshire said that Marners stats on the PP are great though.

Berkshire generally has been right ever since.

 

[PromisedLand]

1-
At 5v5 in playoff last 2
Matthews 18:40
Marner 17:13
Nylander 15:37


Considerating marner played every high defrnsive situation like protecting a lead late in 3rd period or whatever...so nylander had as much or extremely close to play as much time than marner on offensive situation

2- playing 18 minutes game 70 is not what will making you playing less than 23-25 minutes/game come playoff time.. so i dont know where you want to go but we clearly not talking about the same thing.

I can't remember last time Leafs always played with a lead in the last 2 playoffs. May be i am getting old real fast

 

[Dekes For Days]

Berkshire generally has been right ever since.

Said nobody ever.
Imagine trying to use the repeatedly disproven 4+ year old opinion of a Habs fan to dump on Marner.

 

[Arzak]

Said nobody ever.
Imagine trying to use the repeatedly disproven 4+ year old opinion of a Habs fan to dump on Marner.

We know that at least @Antropovsky did.

You disagreed with the opinion that hardly makes it disproven. Typo? Repeatedly disagreed?

0/2

 

[Dekes For Days]

You disagreed with the opinion that hardly makes it disproven.

In case you weren't aware, the Berkshire opinion that he's referencing is one that he's posted in Marner threads about 100 different times over the years, and Habs fan Berkshire's opinion and the way that he arrived at such an opinion has been thoroughly torn apart by me and others about as many times.

 

[Antropovsky]

In case you weren't aware, the Berkshire opinion that he's referencing is one that he's posted in Marner threads about 100 different times over the years, and Habs fan Berkshire's opinion and the way that he arrived at such an opinion has been thoroughly torn apart by me and others about as many times.

Haha... Thoroughly torn apart.

Never happened... Just the typical subjective words that aren't able to be quantified. The same repeated sentences from you, like a broken record, everyone has called you out on numerous, numerous times.. It's a running joke around here really... "you cherry picked that info", "you're misrepresenting what I said", "Marner is a playmaker, those are non player stats!".... "that author is a habs fan!".

So your of the opinion that a NHL sporsnet reporter is putting his job on the line to report false information because of his loyalty to a team he's a fan of? Dear lord... I've heard everything.

 

[Kazparov]

Said this in the GTD.

I feel like Mitch got rich, got married ,got happy and is now coasting in life.

Am I wrong?

 

[uncleben]

In case you weren't aware, the Berkshire opinion that he's referencing is one that he's posted in Marner threads about 100 different times over the years, and Habs fan Berkshire's opinion and the way that he arrived at such an opinion has been thoroughly torn apart by me and others about as many times.

Haha... Thoroughly torn apart.

Never happened... Just the typical subjective words that aren't able to be quantified. The same repeated sentences from you, like a broken record, everyone has called you out on numerous, numerous times.. It's a running joke around here really... "you cherry picked that info", "you're misrepresenting what I said", "Marner is a playmaker, those are non player stats!".... "that author is a habs fan!".

So your of the opinion that a NHL sporsnet reporter is putting his job on the line to report false information because of his loyalty to a team he's a fan of? Dear lord... I've heard everything.

Can we all just stop with this "But you said this!" - "No! You said this!" nonsense.

 

[ACC1224]

Said this in the GTD.

I feel like Mitch got rich, got married ,got happy and is now coasting in life.

Am I wrong?

Yes, you're wrong.

 

[Avilaj07]

Something definitely seems off with Mitch this year. He seems slower and definitely less involved. In previous years, he was puck hungry, always creating plays, going after the puck, etc. For whatever reason this year, he seems hesitant and falls back off the play constantly. I don't know if it's a new system but he's definitely not the same player as years past.

 

[ACC1224]

Can we all just stop with this "But you said this!" - "No! You said this!" nonsense.

I wouldn't start holding your breath for someone to give in.
One guy has dedicated his life to putting Marner down by posting the same things daily while the other is dedicated to defending all things Leaf.

This will go on until the thread is locked.