I've said it before and I will say it again. Marner was Dubas guy cause of the analytics. With Tre as GM Nylander will pass Marner in the depth chart on the Leafs. Which will make Marner expendable. His game does not translate to the playoffs well at all. Very soft. Drop passes and turnovers kill the Leafs offense in the playoffs. Marner will want a raise and Tre will trade Marner this summer. Nylander will get less than Marner. Leafs will open up Mitch's 11M cap hit and re-sign Tavares for half hes making now. Leafs will have tons of cap to add players that are better for the Leafs in the playoffs than Marner. Marners points in the regular season and playoffs are all FLUFF. No real substance to it. Marner has not dominated a game in years in the playoffs.
Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?
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Stephen
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- Feb 28, 2002
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Of course Marner is a reason why we lose every year. One of many. He’s one of the top 3 players on the team. Of course you can also blame the $1.5 million and under goaltending or lack of Yanni Gourde and Ross Colton support that can chip in while Marner has been neutralized. But the delta between Marner at the top of his game in the regular season and a Marner in Game 5, 6, 7… that gap needs to close.
kevsh
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A) We can't afford 4 forwards making $10M+ each, so someone has to go. JT and AM can't be traded, so it's Willie or Mitch.
B) Willie is the more mature player and though he doesn't (until recently) kill penalties he's more of a gamebreaker and less prone to boneheaded plays.
C) Mitch gets the points but as we've seen in tough series, he's not able to overcome the tight checking nor adapt his gameplay.
D) We BADLY need help on the blueline and the only assets the Leafs have that could realistically get a decent return are he and Willie. So take your pick.
If the Leafs had a recent track record of long playoff runs and were a legit Cup contender with this roster, no way I'd suggest trading him but they're not and something needs to change. Both in team complexion and cap allocation.
But you can be thankful that the only ones that want (or are even just willing) to trade Mitch are the fans and not Leafs management; I have no doubt he's staying and will be extended next Summer unless for some reason he wants out.
People who think Marner is above criticism are the same people who still like Disney Star Wars content. You see what you want to see.
Marner is incredible and is the straw that stirs the drink on the Leafs. When he’s on, we’re on. Unfortunately for us, he’s got his Doug Gilmour dream living in his head and he cannot handle the pressure in the playoffs. We lose series again and again because our 2nd best player and main engine turns into a shadow of himself.
I don’t even believe it’s a “playoffs are for men” kind of thing, it’s his own demons that make him play scared. He dazzles in the regular season with HHOF level talent, and after piling up a few points in game 1 and 2 of a series, disappears. He deserves praise for winning us those games, we blew Tampa out twice BECAUSE Marner was on fire, but he deserves the criticism at the same time for doing nothing in the Florida series.
Shout out to the guy who mentioned Marner’s 3 points in the epic Columbus comeback. That’s the sort of thing that makes a franchise legend, but unfortunately Marner came out and sucked in Game 5, completely ruining the magic. There really is no questioning his talent, but it is completely fair to question the fact that this guy just cannot finish what he starts.
Marner is incredible and is the straw that stirs the drink on the Leafs. When he’s on, we’re on. Unfortunately for us, he’s got his Doug Gilmour dream living in his head and he cannot handle the pressure in the playoffs. We lose series again and again because our 2nd best player and main engine turns into a shadow of himself.
I don’t even believe it’s a “playoffs are for men” kind of thing, it’s his own demons that make him play scared. He dazzles in the regular season with HHOF level talent, and after piling up a few points in game 1 and 2 of a series, disappears. He deserves praise for winning us those games, we blew Tampa out twice BECAUSE Marner was on fire, but he deserves the criticism at the same time for doing nothing in the Florida series.
Shout out to the guy who mentioned Marner’s 3 points in the epic Columbus comeback. That’s the sort of thing that makes a franchise legend, but unfortunately Marner came out and sucked in Game 5, completely ruining the magic. There really is no questioning his talent, but it is completely fair to question the fact that this guy just cannot finish what he starts.
Stephen
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- Feb 28, 2002
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Philosophically I have no problem with trading Marner at all but I’m not saying to trade him as a mandate today or tomorrow… I also think you can win just about any trade and that comes down to good GM’ing. Our previous GM was adept at the Moneypuck fringes, added support at a good retail price but I wouldn’t say he was a classic horse trader who could pull off a Leeman-Gilmour.
Stephen
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I find this analogy to be unusually insightful.
Some people do seem to be attached to our core players like they are main characters in some championship pursuit story arc but don’t seem to mind that they don’t actually get there or there’s real life time pressures year to year.
To extend the analogy it doesn’t seem to matter if we get the Empire Strikes Back every year.
Most.... Looks at poll 68% say trade Marner, 28% keep. What is your definition of most?
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
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I thought it made no sense at all but I don't watch cartoons.
Not one person thinks he's above criticism. Some just tire of the same daily criticisms that for the most part don't make a lot of sense.
The froth that some hold for this kid is really strange, no other way to put it.
I don’t think Marner was a “Dubas” guy at all. If there was any player that summed up what Dubas was all about it’s Nylander. Transition player, who isn’t physical but great with his stick and can score, is also on a value contract. I think Marner caused a lot of headaches for Dubas. I think he was the guy Dubas wanted to trade and that ultimately got him fired. That’s because I think Marner is probably the most liked by the alumni and popular in the community as a local guy. MLSE probably would never sign off on the team deciding to move on him. I think they’d rather he ask out
thusk
Registered User
Im not sure if its true, overall expected goal from both team was the same in playoff...
we talked about vegas D but Hill did what Samsonov did not... he made great save a key time and pratically didn't gave up any weak goal...
Final result really affecting the way we see things...
Against habs , leafs allowed like 5 dangerous scoring chance and allowed 5 goal... we talked about how bad the team was defensivly...
Last game after a disaster from samsonov and leafs trailing early 3-1... at this moment it was, an other slow start from leafs. They was playing with no heart, they will lost again in playff... Woll step in and be great... what we retain of the game, how good woll, domi, knies and everyone was, joseph freaking Wa(o)ll...
The only difference was Samsonov made everyone around him looking worst and Woll everyone around him better by how hes played...leafs was not better in 3rd than they was in 1st... Woll gave a chance to leafs to stay in the gane and gave confidence to the guys in front.
Goalie you need to develop them on basically over 80% of the time or being lucky and be able to find the right guy at the right time like hill/kuemper
Having gourde or whatever will change nothing if you dont have goalie able to be clutch at the right time... leafs had oreilly, knies on 3rd line last season and thats changed absolutly nothing if your goalie still allowing bad goal everygame
Game 6, overtime va Tampa bay, leafs up 3-2 in series, Marner, the defensive ace, with an opportunity for easy clear. Instead attempts a cross ice, flip pass to Matthews, puck picked off and Tampa scores. Take note of the urgency in Marners skating after he is beat on the counter attack:
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Sure Sammy has been bad so far but if you think Leafs D is on par with Vegas' SC winning D, I disagree.
thusk
Registered User
You know you can take tape of crosby making mistake like that pretty easily too. Sure when youre trying nothing you will never make any mistake... thats just an hillarious comment
In game 6 and 7 of elimination games in one series? Can you do it for back to back series?
If it's happened... Do show everyone. Show us all the same mistakes, made by Tavares, or Matthews... Because Marner apparently is treated unfairly.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Nice check on Hagel along the boards, losing his stick at the same time. Give this guy a raise.
thusk
Registered User
Leafs Defencemen.... maybe not but leafs defensivly as a team, for me leafs was as good last season than vegas...
Defensive is about 5 PLAYERS on the ice not about 2
Selke level...making all his teammates better no doubt.
I have never understood how personal it seems for anyone about any player.
No one has taken more abuse over the past 7 years than Nylander, and I get that he can be frustrating but to hate him seems silly.
Holl too. He had some big faults but it wasn't his fault Keefe kept sending him out.
Murphey was the first time I can really remember fans taking it so personal when things are not working the way they expect it to.
Since then there has been a long list of players some just want to hate
thusk
Registered User
You talked about an penalty and a turnover who gave up a weak scoring chance... pretty easy to find yes...
Good way to put it.
It's also important to keep in perspective that Matthews is just as much to blame as well. He's been right there with Marner in playing bad at the most important times.
A player has full ability to keep the contract negotiations silent in the media on their end. Matthews and Nylander's camp both took this approach, the reason Nylander's was particularly frustrating is because they gave so little information while he was holding out. Turns out this is the best way to handle it in this market.
Marner's camp did the opposite. That camp almost directly leveraged the media. Saying the things in your post is easy to say in hindsight, the negotiations were a circus when they were happening.
Gary Nylund
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- Oct 10, 2013
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I don't remember all these games by any stretch of the imagination but I do remember a few. I remember TB winning 1-0, and I remember several games where the Leafs went down early and desperately needed to score to catch up. I suspect a deep dive into these games might show that we were trailing for most of these games and desperately needed offence while TB just needed to clamp down defensively after they took the lead. If that's the case, then it's pretty silly to deduct points from Kucherov for not scoring when goals weren't needed.
I think it was zybalto who started this whole Kuch vs Marner thing to show that Marner isn't the only unclutch player in the league. I can't help but wonder how many players he had to sort through before he found a player to compare that wouldn't make Marner look bad? I can't be bothered to do the research but somehow I feel like if were to look at the other guys he's compared to like Pasta and Ranta, Marner would look pretty bad. I guess that's the problem with stats, if you can't trust that the guy posting the stats doesn't have an agenda, you can't trust the stats either.
I assume you meant to say "bigger", not "biggest". Either way, agree to disagree. Game 7 is so much bigger than game 1, it is the "biggest" game in any series and I'm shocked that anyone would suggest otherwise.
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
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Murphy was the worst, no doubt, that translated to the building.
With Nylander, Marner etc it's just a few here that really that just repeat the same things over and over again.
Somehow, Matthews escapes it.
How about the game 2 turnover vs Panthers where panthers made the game 3-2? .
The turnover is at 1:54 of the clip I posted below. Note that he has plenty of time to make a safe play, however, he stops skating, begins coasting, and looks backwards (broadcasting his next play) before passing backwards in his own zone.. The broadcast team "now Marner has an opportunity to get it out, instead, a risky play just inside your own line"
He followed that game up with what was called the worst game (game 3) of his Leaf career by some
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