Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

[WTFMAN99]

PPG over 5 years and Kuch and Pasta are still ahead. Pasta has actually produced more total points, Rantanen is right there with him.

The defensive aspect is where he could be argued into top spot, but playoff failures takes him back out.

Perfectly put. +1

Those are all great points.

Rantanen is pretty good defensively.

Tkachuk more physical

Pasta and Kucherov more natural goal scorers

Marner great defensively.

All with pluses and minuses...but no doubt, any team takes these players on their roster.

 

[Martin Skoula]

He’s not even the best RW on his own team lol.

 

[Zybalto]

Gonna keep posting it because this nutty thread wont stop....

Tops for Leafs points in the playoffs the last 3 years:

1st - Marner: 26 points in 25 games

Looking at the 55 forwards who have played at least 400 5v5 minutes over the last 3 playoffs, here are the top 5 standouts with the best numbers in the most important categories relative their teammates:

REL rankings:

Shot Differential:
1. Tkatchuk
2. Matthews
3. Bennet
4. Verhaeghe
5. Marner

High Danger Chance Differential:
1. Matthews
2. Marner
3. Tkatchuk
4. McDavid
5. Verhaeghe

Expected Goal Differential:
1. Matthews
2. Marner
3. Tkatchuk
4. McDavid
5. Verhaeghe

Goal Differential:
1. Marner (+23.46%)
2. McDavid
3. MacKinnon
4. Danault
5. Verhaeghe


Top 5 defensive forward in the league over the last 3 playoffs.

You guys gotta stop with the "playoffs" stuff.

So sorry if Marner hasnt been elite every single game (no player has) or hasnt apparently lived up to a contract elevated by the fact it was signed right before the flat cap and so looks bigger than it would have been in hindsight (although he has still lived up to it by any objective measure). The fact of the matter is that he has been one of the teams MVPs in the playoffs and the cringe is growing ever so much bigger as the thread grows larger, Jeezus.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Gonna keep posting it because this nutty thread wont stop....

Tops for Leafs points in the playoffs the last 3 years:

1st - Marner: 26 points in 25 games

Looking at the 55 forwards who have played at least 400 5v5 minutes over the last 3 playoffs, here are the top 5 standouts with the best numbers in the most important categories relative their teammates:

REL rankings:

Shot Differential:
1. Tkatchuk
2. Matthews
3. Bennet
4. Verhaeghe
5. Marner

High Danger Chance Differential:
1. Matthews
2. Marner
3. Tkatchuk
4. McDavid
5. Verhaeghe

Expected Goal Differential:
1. Matthews
2. Marner
3. Tkatchuk
4. McDavid
5. Verhaeghe

Goal Differential:
1. Marner (+23.46%)
2. McDavid
3. MacKinnon
4. Danault
5. Verhaeghe


Top 5 defensive forward in the league over the last 3 playoffs.

You guys gotta stop with the "playoffs" stuff.

So sorry if Marner hasnt been elite every single game (no player has) or hasnt apparently lived up to a contract elevated by the fact it was signed right before the flat cap and so looks bigger than it would have been in hindsight (although he has still lived up to it by any objective measure). The fact of the matter is that he has been one of the teams MVPs in the playoffs and the cringe is growing ever so much bigger as the thread grows larger, Jeezus.

Yep - one giant point ahead of Nylander (and seven tiny goals behind) in those three playoffs, despite having averaged 5½ minutes more per game. At even strength four fewer goals and two fewer points than Nylander (but only 2 minutes more ES time per game).

But Mitch did have the handicap of playing with better linemates, and almost 25% more PP time per game.

Hmmm: "relative their teammates". Does that mean that Matty and Mitch are great, or just that we had a badly balanced team?

 

[Arzak]

Gonna keep posting it because this nutty thread wont stop....

Tops for Leafs points in the playoffs the last 3 years:

1st - Marner: 26 points in 25 games

Looking at the 55 forwards who have played at least 400 5v5 minutes over the last 3 playoffs, here are the top 5 standouts with the best numbers in the most important categories relative their teammates:

REL rankings:

Shot Differential:
1. Tkatchuk
2. Matthews
3. Bennet
4. Verhaeghe
5. Marner

High Danger Chance Differential:
1. Matthews
2. Marner
3. Tkatchuk
4. McDavid
5. Verhaeghe

Expected Goal Differential:
1. Matthews
2. Marner
3. Tkatchuk
4. McDavid
5. Verhaeghe

Goal Differential:
1. Marner (+23.46%)
2. McDavid
3. MacKinnon
4. Danault
5. Verhaeghe


Top 5 defensive forward in the league over the last 3 playoffs.

You guys gotta stop with the "playoffs" stuff.

So sorry if Marner hasnt been elite every single game (no player has) or hasnt apparently lived up to a contract elevated by the fact it was signed right before the flat cap and so looks bigger than it would have been in hindsight (although he has still lived up to it by any objective measure). The fact of the matter is that he has been one of the teams MVPs in the playoffs and the cringe is growing ever so much bigger as the thread grows larger, Jeezus.

Really? Source? Somehow that 1 extra point and -7 goals Marner got over Nylander puts him at the top of the league? While Nylander not making the list at all? No one else is curious how that happened?

Have you considered turning your short fabrication into Netflix drama?


Pro tip, if your advanced stats tell you Marner is a playoff beast, your metric left a lot to be desired.

 

[authentic]

Really? Source? Somehow that 1 extra point and -7 goals Marner got over Nylander puts him at the top of the league? While Nylander not making the list at all? No one else is curious how that happened?

Have you considered turning your short fabrication into Netflix drama?


Pro tip, if your advanced stats tell you Marner is a playoff beast, your metric left a lot to be desired.

I dont think the stats he posted are the issue it’s that Marner does most of his damage in the first half of the first round then turns into a giveaway machine who’s scared to get hit and can’t score a goal to save his life

 

[Antropovsky]

Gonna keep posting it because this nutty thread wont stop....

Tops for Leafs points in the playoffs the last 3 years:

1st - Marner: 26 points in 25 games

Looking at the 55 forwards who have played at least 400 5v5 minutes over the last 3 playoffs, here are the top 5 standouts with the best numbers in the most important categories relative their teammates:

REL rankings:

Shot Differential:
1. Tkatchuk
2. Matthews
3. Bennet
4. Verhaeghe
5. Marner

High Danger Chance Differential:
1. Matthews
2. Marner
3. Tkatchuk
4. McDavid
5. Verhaeghe

Expected Goal Differential:
1. Matthews
2. Marner
3. Tkatchuk
4. McDavid
5. Verhaeghe

Goal Differential:
1. Marner (+23.46%)
2. McDavid
3. MacKinnon
4. Danault
5. Verhaeghe


Top 5 defensive forward in the league over the last 3 playoffs.

You guys gotta stop with the "playoffs" stuff.

So sorry if Marner hasnt been elite every single game (no player has) or hasnt apparently lived up to a contract elevated by the fact it was signed right before the flat cap and so looks bigger than it would have been in hindsight (although he has still lived up to it by any objective measure). The fact of the matter is that he has been one of the teams MVPs in the playoffs and the cringe is growing ever so much bigger as the thread grows larger, Jeezus.

I'll repost all these great recent articles on Marner.... Let me know if you want me to post the five giveaways or delay of game pentiwa he's had in elimination games that have led directly to backbreaking goals against. Or let me know if you want me to bring up the article indicating Marnerplaying possibly his worst game as a leaf in game 3 vs Panthers:

Got this from a Reddit thread:

Mitch Marner has 4 goals in his last 34 playoff games.

- Game 1s: 4 G and 5 A in 8 games.
- Game 2s: 4 G and 7 A in 8 games
- Game 3s: 0 G and 8 A in 8 games.
- Game 4s: 0 G and 9 A in 7 games
- Game 5s: 0 G and 4 A in 7 games
- Game 6s: 1 G and 1 A in 6 games
- Game 7s: 0 G and 2 A in 4 games

Marner is literally the most unclutch player when push comes to shove.

This is from TSN before the 2022 playoffs:

Mitch Marner motivated by past playoff failures?

"Definitely, but can't think about those," the 24-year-old winger said. "Gotta be here in the moment. Gotta be ready for what comes tonight."

Marner has gone 18 straight playoff games without a goal dating back to Game 1 against the Boston Bruins in 2019. He has the same number of goals (five) as delay-of-game penalties during his 32 playoff starts.

This is from the athletic this year:
Marner put together the most productive playoffs of his career with 14 points in 11 games last spring, but overall his performance still fell shy of his electric regular-season standards. Six of those 14 points came in Games 1 and 2 against the Lightning, both blowouts. Marner notched only one assist in Games 1-3 of the second round, all losses. Like the Leafs’ other stars, his performance in the biggest games has fallen short of expectations.

This is from Twitter:

https://x.com/TheOakLeafs/status/1655949774099722240?s=20

Headline: 10.903 million

This was from Sportsnet:
Leaf player shot distances from net season vs playoffs

Leaf player slot shot %:

It’s also tough to make sense of Matthews’ dried-up point totals, but wlly dropped were his primary assists, which went from 1.16 (per 60) to 0.48. Hindsight is 20/20, but seeing how far Marner was living from the net in the above stats, and that Calle Jarnkrok was on Matthews’ left side, maybe it would’ve been tough to tally many points on passes.

 

[Zybalto]

Really? Source? Somehow that 1 extra point and -7 goals Marner got over Nylander puts him at the top of the league? While Nylander not making the list at all? No one else is curious how that happened?

Have you considered turning your short fabrication into Netflix drama?


Pro tip, if your advanced stats tell you Marner is a playoff beast, your metric left a lot to be desired.

It's not my advanced stats. They are what they are.

If you do want to compare Nylander to Marner in this regard, it will not look great for Nylander overall, mainly because of vast underrating of defensive play by 90% of hockey fans.

Marner vs. Nylander the last 3 years in the playoffs with REL:

5v5:

Shot differential:
Marner: 55.06 (+6.55)
Nylander: 49.04 (-1.30)

High Danger Chance Differential:
Marner: 60.04 (+13.36)
Nylander: 50.80 (-0.18)

Expected Goal differential:
Marner: 59.29 (+10.65)
Nylander: 51.74 (-0.52)

Goal differential:
Marner: 65.98 (+23.46) - this leads all NHL forwards who have played at least 400 minutes
Nylander: 43.50 (-9.96)

5v5, its a complete mismatch. Marner destroys Nylander in every category and ranks as one of the better wingers in the NHL in the playoffs 5v5 the last 3 seasons....while facing the far tougher defensive matchups as well.

Seeing as Marner is a good Pker who logs solid minutes on the PK, does Nylander have the PP production numbers to even stand a chance?

PP Production the last 3 years:
Marner: 1 goals, 8 assists for 9 points
Nylander: 4 goals, 3 assists for 7 points

All strengths production:
Marner: 5 goals, 21 assists for 26 points in 25 games
Nylander: 12 goals, 13 assists for 25 points in 25 games

Nylander has been the go to goal scorer and ES production king on the team the last 3 years and is an important piece moving forward but Marner's overall complete game highlighted by being one of the best defensive wingers in the playoffs has made him the overall more effective forward.

Thats whats so ludicrous here. Everyone is attacking a player who has been one of the best players on average on the team in the playoffs. Now Marner wasnt great against Florida after coming off a dominant Bolts series but its not like anyone else stood up either........but all that is moot when we have been putting up playoff failure Freddie/Campbell/Samsonov/rookie Woll up against the likes of Rask/Vasy/Price/Bob which is a lot closer to the real issue IMO. Getting a raw deal on reffing in tight series sucks as well.

This all just seems so over the top really. Marner isnt the problem everyone is making him out to be.

 

[Zybalto]

Yep - one giant point ahead of Nylander (and seven tiny goals behind) in those three playoffs, despite having averaged 5½ minutes more per game. At even strength four fewer goals and two fewer points than Nylander (but only 2 minutes more ES time per game).

But Mitch did have the handicap of playing with better linemates, and almost 25% more PP time per game.

Hmmm: "relative their teammates". Does that mean that Matty and Mitch are great, or just that we had a badly balanced team?

Not saying Nylander didnt carry his weight by outscoring his defensive failings against his easier matchups.

In the end, they both were effective enough to have carried a team over the line many times if bottom sixers and goaltending were able to at least closely match up with their counterparts. I don't remember....did the Corey Perry's of the other teams manhandle and outscore our bottom 6 with regularity or vice versa? Was it others teams goalies giving up softies every big game or was it ours?

 

[Zybalto]

I'll repost all these great recent articles on Marner.... Let me know if you want me to post the five giveaways or delay of game pentiwa he's had in elimination games that have led directly to backbreaking goals against. Or let me know if you want me to bring up the article indicating Marnerplaying possibly his worst game as a leaf in game 3 vs Panthers:

Got this from a Reddit thread:

Mitch Marner has 4 goals in his last 34 playoff games.

- Game 1s: 4 G and 5 A in 8 games.
- Game 2s: 4 G and 7 A in 8 games
- Game 3s: 0 G and 8 A in 8 games.
- Game 4s: 0 G and 9 A in 7 games
- Game 5s: 0 G and 4 A in 7 games
- Game 6s: 1 G and 1 A in 6 games
- Game 7s: 0 G and 2 A in 4 games

Marner is literally the most unclutch player when push comes to shove.

This is from TSN before the 2022 playoffs:

Mitch Marner motivated by past playoff failures?

"Definitely, but can't think about those," the 24-year-old winger said. "Gotta be here in the moment. Gotta be ready for what comes tonight."

Marner has gone 18 straight playoff games without a goal dating back to Game 1 against the Boston Bruins in 2019. He has the same number of goals (five) as delay-of-game penalties during his 32 playoff starts.

This is from the athletic this year:
Marner put together the most productive playoffs of his career with 14 points in 11 games last spring, but overall his performance still fell shy of his electric regular-season standards. Six of those 14 points came in Games 1 and 2 against the Lightning, both blowouts. Marner notched only one assist in Games 1-3 of the second round, all losses. Like the Leafs’ other stars, his performance in the biggest games has fallen short of expectations.

This is from Twitter:

https://x.com/TheOakLeafs/status/1655949774099722240?s=20

Headline: 10.903 million

View attachment 756365

This was from Sportsnet:
Leaf player shot distances from net season vs playoffs

View attachment 756363

Leaf player slot shot %:

View attachment 756364


It’s also tough to make sense of Matthews’ dried-up point totals, but wlly dropped were his primary assists, which went from 1.16 (per 60) to 0.48. Hindsight is 20/20, but seeing how far Marner was living from the net in the above stats, and that Calle Jarnkrok was on Matthews’ left side, maybe it would’ve been tough to tally many points on passes.

One way to show someone is biased with their data is when they block out one of the greatest comebacks in Leafs history (August 7th, 2020) in which the Leafs staved off elimination and won in overtime. I know Marner's 3 points in that game hurts your worldview but how can I take any else of that seriously after it? Add in not including the first game from 2019 (for bias sake again of course) and we are left with an incomplete picture are we not?


and unclutch? I guess you could say that.

But how about Kucherov?

He has 1 goal and 8 assists in his last 19 elimination games.
Marner has 1 goal and 9 assists in his last 14 elimination games.

Kucherov has a rep for being this killer in big games and that just wasnt the case...but thats not really the slam on him it appears. A lot of big stars go somewhat invisible in big playoff games which are close-checking, low-scoring affairs and Tampa's hero, the reason for all of their success has been Vasy of course.

In those 19 games (which Tampa never scored more than 4 goals in and only 3 times):

6 shutouts
2 or less goals allowed in 14 of the games

I assure you it hasnt been choking D that is the reason Vasy has close to a .950 in these games. For all his accolades, he still doesnt get enough credit.

Kucherov has been very impressive overall in the playoffs though just not when things really tighten up. The fact his production was so poor in those games and he still ended up with crazy numbers shows he's probably the guy who got them there in the first place.

Maybe Bolts fans would be running him out of town for his lack of "clutch" if the goaltending roles were reversed? I dunno.

I applaud you for digging up whatever you could though.

 

[GoonieFace]

One way to show someone is biased with their data is when they block out one of the greatest comebacks in Leafs history (August 7th, 2020) in which the Leafs staved off elimination and won in overtime. I know Marner's 3 points in that game hurts your worldview but how can I take any else of that seriously after it? Add in not including the first game from 2019 (for bias sake again of course) and we are left with an incomplete picture are we not?


and unclutch? I guess you could say that.

But how about Kucherov?

He has 1 goal and 8 assists in his last 19 elimination games.
Marner has 1 goal and 9 assists in his last 14 elimination games.

Kucherov has a rep for being this killer in big games and that just wasnt the case...but thats not really the slam on him it appears. A lot of big stars go somewhat invisible in big playoff games which are close-checking, low-scoring affairs and Tampa's hero, the reason for all of their success has been Vasy of course.

In those 19 games (which Tampa never scored more than 4 goals in and only 3 times):

6 shutouts
2 or less goals allowed in 14 of the games

I assure you it hasnt been choking D that is the reason Vasy has close to a .950 in these games. For all his accolades, he still doesnt get enough credit.

Kucherov has been very impressive overall in the playoffs though just not when things really tighten up. The fact his production was so poor in those games and he still ended up with crazy numbers shows he's probably the guy who got them there in the first place.

Maybe Bolts fans would be running him out of town for his lack of "clutch" if the goaltending roles were reversed? I dunno.

I applaud you for digging up whatever you could though.

How many cups does Kucherov have and how many does Marner have? Actually he has more cups than Marner has series wins. Terrible comparison

 

[Zybalto]

How many cups does Kucherov have and how many does Marner have? Actually he has more cups than Marner has series wins. Terrible comparison

I thought I broke things down well enough but it's never enough is it?........

 

[Antropovsky]

I thought I broke things down well enough but it's never enough is it?........

.... Please post your Kucherov and Marner playoff comparison on the main board and I'll get my popcorn.

 

[thewave]

One way to show someone is biased with their data is when they block out one of the greatest comebacks in Leafs history (August 7th, 2020) in which the Leafs staved off elimination and won in overtime. I know Marner's 3 points in that game hurts your worldview but how can I take any else of that seriously after it? Add in not including the first game from 2019 (for bias sake again of course) and we are left with an incomplete picture are we not?


and unclutch? I guess you could say that.

But how about Kucherov?

He has 1 goal and 8 assists in his last 19 elimination games.
Marner has 1 goal and 9 assists in his last 14 elimination games.

Kucherov has a rep for being this killer in big games and that just wasnt the case...but thats not really the slam on him it appears. A lot of big stars go somewhat invisible in big playoff games which are close-checking, low-scoring affairs and Tampa's hero, the reason for all of their success has been Vasy of course.

In those 19 games (which Tampa never scored more than 4 goals in and only 3 times):

6 shutouts
2 or less goals allowed in 14 of the games

I assure you it hasnt been choking D that is the reason Vasy has close to a .950 in these games. For all his accolades, he still doesnt get enough credit.

Kucherov has been very impressive overall in the playoffs though just not when things really tighten up. The fact his production was so poor in those games and he still ended up with crazy numbers shows he's probably the guy who got them there in the first place.

Maybe Bolts fans would be running him out of town for his lack of "clutch" if the goaltending roles were reversed? I dunno.

I applaud you for digging up whatever you could though.

Nylander makes half the money. Compare with Kucherov or someone in the same pay grade

 

[Zybalto]

.... Please post your Kucherov and Marner playoff comparison on the main board and I'll get my popcorn.

I actually made a typo as I forgot to add the last game of the Panthers series for Marner:

Kucherov has 1 goal and 8 assists in his last 19 elimination games.
Marner has 1 goal and 9 assists in his last 15 elimination games.

Feel free to post it and have some fun if ya want. You were the one who was spouting off on how points in elimination games defines your "clutchness" and how Marner was the least clutch player. I came up with an even more "unclutch" one pretty quick for you and even defended him against it. The difference between how many points Kucherov scores in the "less important" games is far greater too. Personally, I think game 1 is just as important as 7 and, like I said, Kucherov is still the guy that got them there even if he wasnt able to produce as well in elimination games. HOF Goalie and an actual supporting cast can make a difference in a 20ish player team sport for sure.

So yea, go ahead and post that with your theory on how that makes him a garbage playoff player (if you are being consistent). You have my blessing.

 

[thewave]

I actually made a typo as I forgot to add the last game of the Panthers series for Marner:

Kucherov has 1 goal and 8 assists in his last 19 elimination games.
Marner has 1 goal and 9 assists in his last 15 elimination games.

Feel free to post it and have some fun if ya want. You were the one who was spouting off on how points in elimination games defines your "clutchness" and how Marner was the least clutch player. I came up with an even more "unclutch" one pretty quick for you and even defended him against it. The difference between how many points Kucherov scores in the "less important" games is far greater too. Personally, I think game 1 is just as important as 7 and, like I said, Kucherov is still the guy that got them there even if he wasnt able to produce as well in elimination games. HOF Goalie and an actual supporting cast can make a difference in a 20ish player team sport for sure.

So yea, go ahead and post that with your theory on how that makes him a garbage playoff player (if you are being consistent). You have my blessing.

10 games we can clinch a series he has 3pts. Kucherov has? How about goals. How about points per game in the PO. Kuch destroys Mitch in the PO

 

[Zybalto]

10 games we can clinch a series he has 3pts. Kucherov has? How about goals. How about points per game in the PO. Kuch destroys Mitch in the PO

Not gonna spend the time but Kucherov probably has the same. Tampa lived off of winning series on the back of the greatest playoff goalie of modern times and getting big goals from 3rd/4th liners in their clinching games so it shouldnt be a surprise. Lot of 1-0/2-1 wins.

...and Yea, overall Kucherov destroys Mitch on the offensive side. Marner has the edge on D of course.

If we want to get into actual criticisms of Marner, it would be his middling PP numbers and flawed forcing of plays at bad times in the playoffs. Overall I have no clue what most people are talking about though.

The Leafs themselves have also run into a gauntlet of teams on rolls led by goalies having career streaks that given playoff year. It's why the "lack of offense" runs right through the entire lineup and cant really be pinned on any one player.

This Woll kid looks pretty good and I'm hoping he can be that guy for us but its probably wishful thinking.

....and who knows when anyone could pop off. Ovi was a playoff choker until he wasnt. Mark Stone was an even worse choker (including 0 points against those Habs that beat us) but was a beast last year.

It all has to come together at the right time, especially the goalkeeping.

 

[no2ninja]

I am new to this forum, so I am confused by this thread... He is one of our TOP producers over the last few seasons, how is he the problem? Why would we lose sleep over a guy that is this talented?

Does the team not have much more pressing needs/holes? Is MM really that much of a problem? Or has his regular season success just created unrealistic expectations in folks?

To me, it seems that some players are built for the playoffs, some for the regular season. We need to do well in both in order to win a cup. That said, wasn't he our most productive player in the playoffs last year?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Not saying Nylander didnt carry his weight by outscoring his defensive failings against his easier matchups.

In the end, they both were effective enough to have carried a team over the line many times if bottom sixers and goaltending were able to at least closely match up with their counterparts. I don't remember....did the Corey Perry's of the other teams manhandle and outscore our bottom 6 with regularity or vice versa? Was it others teams goalies giving up softies every big game or was it ours?

You're the one posting a few misleading stats. I just added context.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I am new to this forum, so I am confused by this thread... He is one of our TOP producers over the last few seasons, how is he the problem? Why would we lose sleep over a guy that is this talented?

Does the team not have much more pressing needs/holes? Is MM really that much of a problem? Or has his regular season success just created unrealistic expectations in folks?

To me, it seems that some players are built for the playoffs, some for the regular season. We need to do well in both in order to win a cup. That said, wasn't he our most productive player in the playoffs last year?

Welcome to chaos.

This thread started just after the playoffs, when Marner had his worst playoffs, most of the team was bad, and his NTC was about to kick in. Hence the "trade or keep" poll. Obviously many posters were very disappointed by his performance in the Panthers' series.

Yes, he is one of the top producers over the last few regular seasons, but much less so in the playoffs. There are a couple of stats which, taken without context and with a lot of vague comments, make it look like he was a team leader. There are a couple of posters who insist on reiterating them, and therefore several other posters who insist on refuting them. It's a vicious cycle.

Add to all that the money we are paying him (somewhere between appropriate and far too much, depending on the poster) and how the team is unbalanced with three forwards making too large a portion of the cap, there are posters who feel the money could be better allocated.

This particular thread should have died the moment his NTC kicked in on June 1st (or July 1st, I forget which), but it keeps being brought back to life.

 

[Gary Nylund]

One way to show someone is biased with their data is when they block out one of the greatest comebacks in Leafs history (August 7th, 2020) in which the Leafs staved off elimination and won in overtime. I know Marner's 3 points in that game hurts your worldview but how can I take any else of that seriously after it? Add in not including the first game from 2019 (for bias sake again of course) and we are left with an incomplete picture are we not?

and unclutch? I guess you could say that.

Glad you agree Marner is unclutch. Could have just said that from the start instead of posting a bunch of stats without context. He's a great regular season player, nobody is disputing that but the bigger the games get, the more Marner fades away. Unclutch is if anything an understatement.

 

[Evilhomer]

I am new to this forum, so I am confused by this thread... He is one of our TOP producers over the last few seasons, how is he the problem? Why would we lose sleep over a guy that is this talented?

Does the team not have much more pressing needs/holes? Is MM really that much of a problem? Or has his regular season success just created unrealistic expectations in folks?

To me, it seems that some players are built for the playoffs, some for the regular season. We need to do well in both in order to win a cup. That said, wasn't he our most productive player in the playoffs last year?

Stop talking logic. It has no place here.

 

[ACC1224]

I am new to this forum, so I am confused by this thread... He is one of our TOP producers over the last few seasons, how is he the problem? Why would we lose sleep over a guy that is this talented?

Does the team not have much more pressing needs/holes? Is MM really that much of a problem? Or has his regular season success just created unrealistic expectations in folks?

To me, it seems that some players are built for the playoffs, some for the regular season. We need to do well in both in order to win a cup. That said, wasn't he our most productive player in the playoffs last year?

Welcome!
Most see the value, it's really only a handful that don't. It's their redundancy that makes it seem like a greater volume, most just ignore them.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Zybalto knocking down bad, lazy narratives left and right.

It's mind-boggling the hate that one of the best players in the game gets from his own fanbase.

 

[leafan11]

If we get Nylander signed, I feel like we can drive a hard bargain with Marner. All the core with be signed except him.