Mitch Marner (post playoffs) discussion thread continued...

[Brobust]

You’re understating how much of an asset Bickell was in his prime. During that cup run I would easily take Bickell in the playoffs only over any playoff version of Marner to date. Doesn’t mean he’s a better player. Is showing up a skill? These discussions are more nuanced than we think

So you're saying you'd take Bickell over Marner?

 

[Gallagbi]

Marner's a very unsual package. He's obviously high skilled and ultra shifty with the puck and can dangle and deke in tight but sometimes his basic handles are sloppy to bad. Compare that to Nylander, whose just always smooth and that's it. Marner's got elite edge work and a smooth skater but his separation speed and explosiveness isn't that good and doesn't have that lower body to handle the physicality. For a skill guy, his shot is terrible. He's creative but also chaotic. Has great vision but isn't necessarily intelligent. He's at his best playing a scrappy underdog with skill game but you can see when trouble is around the corner when he's feeling very confident and his game turns into an OHL skills competition. I have no idea what makes this guy tick.

He's one of the weirder players I can remember. Unbelievably talented, but almost seems like he works against himself more than he ever needs to.

He's at his best pushing the pace and working with speed, but almost always tries to slow things down. He passes by opening up lanes and pulling people out of position, but routinely turns pucks over because he forces plays and/or drives into traffic instead of away from it pulling people out of position.

 

[Brobust]

He's one of the weirder players I can remember. Unbelievably talented, but almost seems like he works against himself more than he ever needs to.

He's at his best pushing the pace and working with speed, but almost always tries to slow things down. He passes by opening up lanes and pulling people out of position, but routinely turns pucks over because he forces plays and/or drives into traffic instead of away from it pulling people out of position.

He needs to learn from Kucherov.

It's all about making plays and passes quicker than defences can anticipate during the playoffs. The reason Kucherov is so dangerous is the touch passes and quick plays. Marner likes to hold the puck, giving defenders time to get cut off his options. Leaving him there to twirl around in circles aimlessly.

 

[Gallagbi]

He needs to learn from Kucherov.

It's all about making plays and passes quicker than defences can anticipate during the playoffs. The reason Kucherov is so dangerous is the touch passes and quick plays. Marner likes to hold the puck, giving defenders time to get cut off his options. Leaving him there to twirl around in circles aimlessly.

Honestly, he's nothing like Kucherov.

Kuch is a shooting threat and just plays a much different game. He's smoother and can work from a standstill because of it, especially on the PP.

Marner's the opposite where he needs to be working with movement, isn't a shooting threat and doesn't have the shot/pass strength to make a lot of the quick plays that Kuch does.

 

[Brown Dog]

I'm a small, petty man in some ways...but I still haven't gotten over how Marner approached his contract negotiation two summers ago. I haven't felt the same about him since and he hasn't seemed like the same player despite the regular season production.

I think he should go if only to free up some cap flexibility and shed our playoff choker reputation. But also for spite and because karma is a bitch.

 

[TMLAM34]

Honestly, he's nothing like Kucherov.

Kuch is a shooting threat and just plays a much different game. He's smoother and can work from a standstill because of it, especially on the PP.

Marner's the opposite where he needs to be working with movement, isn't a shooting threat and doesn't have the shot/pass strength to make a lot of the quick plays that Kuch does.

Completely agree. Even when you watch a Tampa game, that PP is so dangerous because they move the puck so well and quick. Our players like to hold onto the puck let the opposing team reset and then wonder why they can’t get anything through or in.

 

[Stephen]

Honestly, he's nothing like Kucherov.

Kuch is a shooting threat and just plays a much different game. He's smoother and can work from a standstill because of it, especially on the PP.

Marner's the opposite where he needs to be working with movement, isn't a shooting threat and doesn't have the shot/pass strength to make a lot of the quick plays that Kuch does.

From a pure skillset and style point of view William Nylander's smooth handles and explosive potential and shot arsenal, is closer to a Kucherov than Marner. But Kucherov is much closer to a Kane with that ice water in his veins when he's making little trick plays.

I think Marner most resembles Sebastian Aho in terms of build, stickhandling and skating. But Aho has a better shot and seems to opt for the quick direct routes which makes him efficient and that often translates better in a playoff game when you don't have time to screw around. More pro and less cute.

 

[Gallagbi]

I think Marner most resembles Sebastian Aho in terms of build, stickhandling and skating. But Aho has a better shot and seems to opt for the quick direct routes which makes him efficient and that often translates better in a playoff game when you don't have time to screw around. More pro and less cute.

He and Barzal are the closest comparables for style IMO. Oddly enough they could both learn a bit from eachother in picking up/slowing down the pace, but small, skilled puck handlers who work best off the rush and their speed.

 

[blueberrie]

It would actually be really stupid to turn down the contract he was offered. It was a mistake for the Leafs management to offer Nylander, Matthews and Marner those contracts. Put yourself in his spot. Here @mozz , I'm going to give you 10mill to play for the Leafs. Is the first thing you say, "but what about the rest of the roster?" or would it be "f***ing rights, where do I sign?"

That doesn't take away from how poor he played in the playoffs, but the whole contract discussion lays more at the feet of management than him.

Marner and co ran a very loud very public negotiation demanding Mitch become the highest paid NHL winger ever. That number clearly wasn’t what Dubas had in mind given the holdout lasted til training camp. Rock and a hard place to sit a key player half a season again in a cup window year. Dubas shares the blame.

however every media leak with Mitch’s negotiated cap hit and when terms broke was pretty well agreed it was a big overpay.

it basically immediately began affecting his play with gripping his stick too tight and playing hero puck and no doubt was continually creeping into his mind throughout periods of underperforming.

dubas gets a share of the blame but the Marner negotiation was bullshit and could have very well punched his ticket off of his childhood team and sullied his name in his own city forever.

 

[Stephen]

I'm a small, petty man in some ways...but I still haven't gotten over how Marner approached his contract negotiation two summers ago. I haven't felt the same about him since and he hasn't seemed like the same player despite the regular season production.

I think he should go if only to free up some cap flexibility and shed our playoff choker reputation. But also for spite and because karma is a bitch.

Marner's salary negotiation to this playoff collapse is going to be a cautionary tale for agents to review options with their star RFA agents. "Do you want to go for the jugular now and punch your ticket out of town in a few years or work with the team and continue to grow while allowing them to put better teammates around you. How much do you like here. How much do you like winning?"

Some guys will take the money, and others will think "I'm a team guy, I'm not going to pull a Marner." You already hear guys like Mackinnon and Aho alluding to that.

 

[Cleetus]

From a pure skillset and style point of view William Nylander's smooth handles and explosive potential and shot arsenal, is closer to a Kucherov than Marner. But Kucherov is much closer to a Kane with that ice water in his veins when he's making little trick plays.

I think Marner most resembles Sebastian Aho in terms of build, stickhandling and skating. But Aho has a better shot and seems to opt for the quick direct routes which makes him efficient and that often translates better in a playoff game when you don't have time to screw around. More pro and less cute.

Aho is awesome! 7 points in 7 games 5G 2A, 31 points in 30 career playoff games, guy brings the heat when the pressure is on

 

[Stephen]

He and Barzal are the closest comparables for style IMO. Oddly enough they could both learn a bit from eachother in picking up/slowing down the pace, but small, skilled puck handlers who work best off the rush and their speed.

If he had Barzal's wheels I'd be a lot more bullish about him as a Leaf.

 

[koyvoo]

Aho is awesome! 7 points in 7 games 5G 2A, 31 points in 30 career playoff games, guy brings the heat when the pressure is on

A number #1C who produces like a #1C when the games matter? I wish.

 

[blueberrie]

Marner's salary negotiation to this playoff collapse is going to be a cautionary tale for agents to review options with their star RFA agents. "Do you want to go for the jugular now and punch your ticket out of town in a few years or work with the team and continue to grow while allowing them to put better teammates around you. How much do you like here. How much do you like winning?"

Some guys will take the money, and others will think "I'm a team guy, I'm not going to pull a Marner." You already hear guys like Mackinnon and Aho alluding to that.

MacK’s comments are pretty funny about “taking less again” when he was not even a star playing at time of signing let alone a superstar

 

[OptimusReim]

I wonder if Mitch is going to say he wasn't engaged in the games like last season's "performance" against CBJ.

Clown

 

[Gallagbi]

I wonder if Mitch is going to say he wasn't engaged in the games like last season's "performance" against CBJ.

Clown

Pretty sure he already did

 

[TheGoldenJet]

MacK’s comments are pretty funny about “taking less again” when he was not even a star playing at time of signing let alone a superstar

He already had one more major award than Marner did though.

 

[PromisedLand]

#TradeMarner

get it trending

 

[ruaware41]

So you're saying you'd take Bickell over Marner?

A prime Bickell in the playoffs vs anything Marner has brought to date in the nhl playoffs? Yes. At the very least he won’t be playing golf from the defensive zone blue line taking delay of game penalties.

 

[HomerJLeafs]

Seriously? Who cares what he does. It's his time. Do you honestly expect the dude to be curled up in his bed crying for a month lol? Im truly disgusted by his performance just as everyone is but if the guy wants to golf, or spend time with his friends, let the dude be.

I'm pretty sure if a player calls him out for it he shoulda waited for the exit interviews at least He only cares for the fame and the money. Childhood team Go get some more side deals

 

[lebdafor norris]

Rantanen, Point and Stone play on great playoff teams. Aho and Guentzel play on arguably better playoff teams than the Leafs. You are making my point for me. Do you really think things would be much different if any of these guys replaced Marner? Do you think that Marner on those great playoff teams would play poorly? It's the team. We have Zack "Hands" Hyman on the top line. Foligo, Thornton and Simmonds are sometimes on the PP etc etc. While we're at it our PP was horrible and could have made the difference in this series at least. Is it ONLY Marners fault that our PP sucks?

No one was complaining about Hyman being on the top line when he was pacing ~60 points in the regular season while being an absolute workhorse along the boards. Why are we treating the playoffs like its a whole different sport for the Leafs here and not do the same for all these other teams? At the end of the day, the Leafs regular season record was comparable to Pitt, Carolina, Vegas and all those other teams, with Marner outscoring many of these teams top line players. But why is it only the Leafs that has such a huge discrepency between their regular season and post season? And why should we not call it what it is, choking?

And no the blame should be pass all around and in this case, Matthews is just as much to blame as Marner, AM paced for like 60+ goals this season, but only scored 1 goal in 7 games against the Habs, the same team he torched during the regular season, its not like Shea Weber drunk the fountain of youth here and shaved off 10 years of his age, this was the same team and much like the CBJ series, the offence choked hard.

 

[Gabriel426]

From a pure skillset and style point of view William Nylander's smooth handles and explosive potential and shot arsenal, is closer to a Kucherov than Marner. But Kucherov is much closer to a Kane with that ice water in his veins when he's making little trick plays.

I think Marner most resembles Sebastian Aho in terms of build, stickhandling and skating. But Aho has a better shot and seems to opt for the quick direct routes which makes him efficient and that often translates better in a playoff game when you don't have time to screw around. More pro and less cute.

that’s a good analysis.

Aho is very effective bc he is direct and keep thing simple.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Derozan…Marner

the rest any Toronto fan can figure out.

let’s Trade up Coach’s too if this shot show continues

 

[Gabriel426]

The Marner Defenders are coming out. Thought they would come out sooner.

Honestly, AM and Marner both didn’t play well and not only did they didn’t hit that extra gear for playoffs, they hit the reverse gear.
Keefe did bad too with his coaching decision and PP.

One thing I would say is that both AM and Marner played bad but how come most fans and even medias are talking about trading Marner and not AM.

 

[Gabriel426]

Derozan…Marner

the rest any Toronto fan can figure out.

let’s Trade up Coach’s too if this shot show continues

I guess we just need to find a Cup Winner who is in his last year of his contract to come to TO. Is Toews available?