Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[Sypher04]

In a deal for Makar? In a heartbeat.

Sure in a hypothetical Makar deal that has zero chance of actually happening I would move him. Hellcat however said he’s on his shortlist to move, that’s not the same.

 

[hullsy47]

Also possible.

His agent knows right now no team will want him as their highest paid
Dubas can't even take him unless he gives Crosby 13 million which he deserves
Marners camp knows

 

[Hellcat]

Your all over the place. Your talking specifically about huge chests and shoulders, however, I commented on nutrition and fitness in general. I say he's falling, you assume edge work prevents people from falling. Edge work doesn't mean sh&* if he's knocked over from a light push.

Marner is falling all over the place during the playoffs. This is common knowledge.

What your doing is called attacking a straw man. Look it up.

OK, agility has nothing to do with staying on your feet? Those figure skaters should probably put on 30 to 40 lbs to stay on their feet better. He's not falling all over the place this a false construct you've built in your mind.



How many days have you spent with him in the gym or with his nutritionist? I'm guessing the number is less than 1? Tell me what is his weekly diet? But you know about his conditioning? You know nothing about this mans condition or his nutrition but you are making an inference without any quantifiable fact. Eating another apple is not going to keep you on your feet.

Again I've asked you when he adds muscle and he gets gassed more easily and he has to play less ATOI and scores less. what have you gained? There is a push pull for everything you do with your body. I'm more gym acive than most people, in my younger years I gained 40lbs of muscle, did cardio too, to prevent me from losing my lungs and even with all that, I was gassed much more easily than I was when I was 170 lbs vs 210 lbs. 11th highest scoring player over the last 6 years needs better conditioning ... OK Doc...

You think a guy who makes 11 mil doesn't have every sports scientist working for MLSE looking at every possible metric?

6 years ago he had an interview where he talked about Yck Veggies .. and how he ate a lot of carbs.. Two eyars ago he made an adjustment, gained 9 lbs and was quoted as saying "I'm proud of the adjustments I made," he said. "Trying to eat healthier and eat better and get the right food in me and hopefully it pans out to make it a successful season again."

Simply put your assumptions are wrong.

 

[rojac]

At over 380 pages, this thread is ridiculous. I find it hard to believe that anything that is being said hasn't already said a dozen times. I have to wonder if the posters in this thread are like this offline, droning on and on about the same things over and over, again and again, ad nauseum. Maybe that's why some of them have taken their constant beating of an expired equine online -- none of their friends want to listen to it anymore.

 

[Antropovsky]

Haha honestly I’d just love Marner to have a great year from start to finish. Knowing him, if he’s healthy he’ll get his 100 points this year and I just want him, Matthews and Nylander to go on an absolute tear in the post season. Just prove everyone wrong, have a good playoffs and carry the mail and these narratives go away

Jeez this is like groundhog day. Every summer we hear the same thing from Marner supporters... "oh boy if he has a great season!!! Your all going to eat crow". When does he run of time for ya'll? When he's 38 and about to retire? He's been bad his entire 8 years in the playoffs. Terrible in alot of them too.

Management is wanting to move him, the board voted nearly 70% that he'd be traded
Yet the Marner supporters are literally predicting Art Ross Trophy and comparing him to Gretzky. Talk about delusional!

 

[Confucius]

Scored an OT goal in the playoffs?

Oh well then… lol

 

[Martin Skoula]

Last three years he has averaged higher than 15 SH%, his issue is that he does not take shots, he is normally in around 170 SOG/yr, not that he is a bad shooter.


He's a 2/3 that is dressed up as a 1 that at times struggles in his own zone, IMO he is not good value. Good player not good value.

I don’t think there’s a stat you could give me that would change my mind, Mitch could be a 20% shooter and teams still wouldn’t neglect to double team Matthews to make sure Marner’s shot is covered. If he was shooting league average with the amount of space afforded to him by being on the ice with the best goal scorer of the generation that would be a huge concern.

And that’s also just regular season, I don’t think there’s any point getting into his post season shooting.

Edit: I’ll reframe it a bit, Mitch is a good enough shooter to take advantage of the space he’s given reasonably well, we run into problems when he isn’t given space and pushed out to the perimeter. Nylander can use his skating to create space and Matthews is Matthews. The other two also have good plan B games around the net if the other team is really locking things down in the slot, Marner doesn’t really have a plan B game at all. Either he’s given time and space to think and create or he isn’t, there’s not much he can do to force the issue and make the opponent play on his terms.

 

[Hellcat]

Jeez this is like groundhog day. Every summer we hear the same thing from Marner supporters... "oh boy if he has a great season!!! Your all going to eat crow". When does he run of time for ya'll? When he's 38 and about to retire? He's been bad his entire 8 years in the playoffs. Terrible in alot of them too.

Management is wanting to move him, the board voted nearly 70% that he'd be traded
Yet the Marner supporters are literally predicting Art Ross Trophy and comparing him to Gretzky. Talk about delusional!

The board voted that they wanted him traded? BWAHHAHAHHAHA .... I can tell you with 100% certainty that vote never ever ever happened. Do tell us common folk, what is the function of the board? Look at the names of the board members and then come back here and tell all of us if voting on trading one individual could be fit into their schedules. The CEO of Bell who just laid off 15k people in the last calendar year, is doing everything possible to transform his company into a profitable business, is going to take 30 minutes out of his day to discuss trading Mitch Marner.... for the love of god the BS that is freely spread on this forum is laughable. Staffieri who is trying to stop the hemorrhaging of customers and financial losses from reckless content acquisitions says hey I'm gonna put running the largest telecommunication company in Canada on hold to discuss trading Marner ...

Who compared him to Gretzky?

Which management is wanting to move him?

I'm not a BS detector but if I was I would say ... tres BS ...

 

[Hellcat]

I don’t think there’s a stat you could give me that would change my mind, Mitch could be a 20% shooter and teams still wouldn’t neglect to double team Matthews to make sure Marner’s shot is covered. If he was shooting league average with the amount of space afforded to him by being on the ice with the best goal scorer of the generation that would be a huge concern.

And that’s also just regular season, I don’t think there’s any point getting into his post season shooting.

Edit: I’ll reframe it a bit, Mitch is a good enough shooter to take advantage of the space he’s given reasonably well, we run into problems when he isn’t given space and pushed out to the perimeter. Nylander can use his skating to create space and Matthews is Matthews. The other two also have good plan B games around the net if the other team is really locking things down in the slot, Marner doesn’t really have a plan B game at all. Either he’s given time and space to think and create or he isn’t, there’s not much he can do to force the issue and make the opponent play on his terms.

If Kucherov was on AM's wing they would still double team AM, AM is a shooter, there really is no surprise there. You said if he was shooting league average?League average is below 10% he is shooting +15% over the last 3 years

 

[Antropovsky]

OK, agility has nothing to do with staying on your feet? Those figure skaters should probably put on 30 to 40 lbs to stay on their feet better. He's not falling all over the place this a false construct you've built in your mind.



How many days have you spent with him in the gym or with his nutritionist? I'm guessing the number is less than 1? Tell me what is his weekly diet? But you know about his conditioning? You know nothing about this mans condition or his nutrition but you are making an inference without any quantifiable fact. Eating another apple is not going to keep you on your feet.

Again I've asked you when he adds muscle and he gets gassed more easily and he has to play less ATOI and scores less. what have you gained? There is a push pull for everything you do with your body. I'm more gym acive than most people, in my younger years I gained 40lbs of muscle, did cardio too, to prevent me from losing my lungs and even with all that, I was gassed much more easily than I was when I was 170 lbs vs 210 lbs. 11th highest scoring player over the last 6 years needs better conditioning ... OK Doc...

You think a guy who makes 11 mil doesn't have every sports scientist working for MLSE looking at every possible metric?

6 years ago he had an interview where he talked about Yck Veggies .. and how he ate a lot of carbs.. Two eyars ago he made an adjustment, gained 9 lbs and was quoted as saying "I'm proud of the adjustments I made," he said. "Trying to eat healthier and eat better and get the right food in me and hopefully it pans out to make it a successful season again."

Simply put your assumptions are wrong.

Guess Barzals sports scientist knows nothing. Again your attacking the strawman... your trying to indicate I've said Marner needs to be a body builder and you've attacked that argument.

Do you see a difference between NHL Star Marner and NHL star Barzal?

 

[Antropovsky]

The board voted that they wanted him traded? BWAHHAHAHHAHA .... I can tell you with 100% certainty that vote never ever ever happened. Do tell us common folk, what is the function of the board? Look at the names of the board members and then come back here and tell all of us if voting on trading one individual could be fit into their schedules. The CEO of Bell who just laid off 15k people in the last calendar year, is doing everything possible to transform his company into a profitable business, is going to take 30 minutes out of his day to discuss trading Mitch Marner.... for the love of god the BS that is freely spread on this forum is laughable. Staffieri who is trying to stop the hemorrhaging of customers and financial losses from reckless content acquisitions says hey I'm gonna put running the largest telecommunication company in Canada on hold to discuss trading Marner ...

Who compared him to Gretzky?

Which management is wanting to move him?

I'm not a BS detector but if I was I would say ... tres BS ...

??

67% of this message board voted trade:

Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

Should we Trade or Keep Marner? EDIT: His NMC kicks in July 1st, 2023 Scenarios: - We keep Marner then: A) he either walks as UFA in 2 years B) he wants anywhere from 12 to 14 AAV for 8 years (currently at approx. 11 AAV for 6 years) Given his play in the playoffs especially in elimination...

forums.hfboards.com

Read this thread for all kinds of delusion, including he'd be art ross winner and comparisons to Gretzky:

Tribute - Marner Appreciation Thread

Kid is on a serious heater, time for a fresh thread. Marner is now up to a 14-game points streak, after hustling in and centring for John Tavares’ club-high 12th goal. Marner is the seventh Leaf with a run that long, joining Darryl Sittler, Ed Olczyk, Babe Dye, John Anderson, Lorne Carr and...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Notsince67]

Like I said, poor shot and weak shot are two different things, sometime a shot can be both.

The important thing is getting a goal. Doesn’t matter if it is a 100mph shot or top corner or bounce off someone skate.
Having said that someone having a harder shot is better than someone having a weaker shot in terms of scoring.
Like someone skating closer to McD’s speed will have a higher chance of creating scoring opp than someone skating like JT. But that’s not the golden rule as we have seen first hand what Kap and Soup had done with their great speed.

At the end, if you believe having a harder shot is not an advantage over having a weaker shot, we just need to agree to disagree.

Hard shots have more than twice the correlation to goals than extra hard shots.
This is statistically known. You are just expressing an opinion based on an impression you have. You have no basis of fact to support your assertion.

 

[Notsince67]

Sure in a hypothetical Makar deal that has zero chance of actually happening I would move him. Hellcat however said he’s on his shortlist to move, that’s not the same.

I'd move Matthews for Makar

 

[Gary Nylund]

Hard shots have more than twice the correlation to goals than extra hard shots.
This is statistically known. You are just expressing an opinion based on an impression you have. You have no basis of fact to support your assertion.

This post is irony at it's finest. You know why? Because you have no basis of fact to support your assertion. Go ahead, prove me wrong. But you can't so what now?

Let me guess, here come the insults along with changing the subject.

 

[Antropovsky]

Watching Matthews goal highlights... it's pretty easy to see the stat padding benefit to any leaf playing with Matthews.

Numerous times I thought Marner made a pass, but it was just another Leaf player. Making a similar play that gets Marner fans calling him Gretzky.

Holmberg made a number of sweet plays to Matthews in the highlights.

In fact Holmberg had 3 primary assists and 4 total assists while playing only 90 mins with Matthews. (Marner has 10 primary and 5 secondary playing with Matthews).

5vs5:
Matthews had 33 points with Marner in 720 mins.
Matthews had 6 points with Holmberg in 90 mins. Which is 48 points in 720 mins.

Where is the stat boosting Marner gives Matthews? 4th liner Holmberg is boosting him more.

 

[Hellcat]

??

67% of this message board voted trade:

Mitch Marner (Trade or Keep)?

Should we Trade or Keep Marner? EDIT: His NMC kicks in July 1st, 2023 Scenarios: - We keep Marner then: A) he either walks as UFA in 2 years B) he wants anywhere from 12 to 14 AAV for 8 years (currently at approx. 11 AAV for 6 years) Given his play in the playoffs especially in elimination...

forums.hfboards.com

Read this thread for all kinds of delusion, including he'd be art ross winner and comparisons to Gretzky:

Tribute - Marner Appreciation Thread

Kid is on a serious heater, time for a fresh thread. Marner is now up to a 14-game points streak, after hustling in and centring for John Tavares’ club-high 12th goal. Marner is the seventh Leaf with a run that long, joining Darryl Sittler, Ed Olczyk, Babe Dye, John Anderson, Lorne Carr and...

forums.hfboards.com

LOL, I thought you were talking the Board of Directors of MLSE (a body with actual power vs a Hockey forum). What weight does this forum hold with Treliving?

 

[Hellcat]

Guess Barzals sports scientist knows nothing. Again your attacking the strawman... your trying to indicate I've said Marner needs to be a body builder and you've attacked that argument.

Do you see a difference between NHL Star Marner and NHL star Barzal?

View attachment 893148

View attachment 893147

Dude its not called attacking the strawman, its called making a strawman argument which is exactly what you are doing ... OK lets take your specious argument and break it down... the thicker you are the better you will do something... but what? ... What year did Barzal win the cup? Never? OK so your point must be it's not about the Cup, it's about individual performances ... OK Barzal has 442 points in 500 games, Marner has 639 in 576 games... over the same amount of years .. oh its not about regular season its is about playoffs? Mitch has 50 points in 57 games, Barzal 45 points in 60 games ... so what you are saying is if Marner gets thicker he can be a lesser player like Barzal? Gotcha... great debate there dude.. you really got me...

Apparently according to you, if he eats more Apples and Banana's he will fall down less (obvious sarcasm)... this is the problem we are trying to solve for right? Less falling and apparently less scoring like Barzal? Wait I know, if he eats more oranges that are genetically modified to have more skill he will be come more skilled and less fally downy?

So I think we can all agree having the FOUTH most even strength ice time out of any RW last year is an illustration of his lack of conditioning... MORE VEGGIES!!! How quick do you think eating more veggies will drop him to Barzals level? So you are saying there is only one way to not fall down, great edges or agility dont mean squat?

 

[Kazparov]

Marner as 2nd line centre.
Tavares as 3rd line centre.

View attachment 893084

Where did you see this? Or did you just make this?

 

[Notsince67]

This post is irony at it's finest. You know why? Because you have no basis of fact to support your assertion. Go ahead, prove me wrong. But you can't so what now?

Let me guess, here come the insults along with changing the subject.

Yawn. Casuals dont know how to use google...lol.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5037332/2023/11/08/nhl-edge-data-shot-speed-location?source=user-shared-article

 

[Martin Skoula]

If Kucherov was on AM's wing they would still double team AM, AM is a shooter, there really is no surprise there. You said if he was shooting league average?League average is below 10% he is shooting +15% over the last 3 years

If Matthews is drawing Kucherov’s coverage, Kuch would put up 50+ every year.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Perhaps they revisit moving Nylander?

Grasping at straws isn't a good look. It's a sign of extreme desperation.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Glad you asked. I said Marner doesnt take fitness seriously. Fitness would help him with board battles and staying on his feet. Which for a slow player would be very helpful. His lack of fitness along with his lack of grit/competiteness and high end skills (skating speed, shot speed) makes me not a big fan of him as a player. It's not just fitness that Marner lacks in, most importantly he's lacking in skating speed and shot speed.

Kessel is out of shape, but his skillset got him out of trouble. He had speed to burn.

Marner vs Kucherov?

Let's compare shot speed and speed of Marner and Kucherov.

Per NHL Edge Stats:
 
Kucherov:

Speed:
18-20mph - 89%
20-22mph - 89%
22+mph - 92%

Shot Speed:
70-80 mile hr shots - 94%
80-90 mile hr shots - 97%
90 - 100 mile hr shots - 79%

Marner:

Speed:
18-20mph - below 57%
20-22mph - below 50%
22+mph - below 50%

Shot speed:

70-80 mile hr shots - 56%
80-90 mile hr shots - below 50%
90 - 100 mile hr shots - below 50%

Wrecked him...

Your all over the place. Your talking specifically about huge chests and shoulders, however, I commented on nutrition and fitness in general. I say he's falling, you assume edge work prevents people from falling. Edge work doesn't mean sh&* if he's knocked over from a light push.

Marner is falling all over the place during the playoffs. This is common knowledge.

What your doing is called attacking a straw man. Look it up.

That's what NHLPA Reps do....

 

[Notsince67]

Leafs playoff scorers past 5 years.

Willy has 17 goals for even more than Rocket Man Matthews .... In fact Auston & Mitch have 19 combined, which barely beats Willy.

View attachment 893075

Leafs lack of playoff scoring of the Core 4, resulting in early exists would not be on Nylander who contributes the most.

Leafs have struggled to score more then 2 goals a game in 13 of the last 14 games played, however the 2 expiring contracts of JT and MM combined for 16 goals over 5 playoffs are the weakest links.

So the Leafs have it right, if they want to improve you start at the bottom and work your way up!!

Marner has scored 6 goals over 6 playoff series. You don't need to pay someone > $12 for so little goal production.

You miss the other part of the equation...goals allowed on ice.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

OK, agility has nothing to do with staying on your feet? Those figure skaters should probably put on 30 to 40 lbs to stay on their feet better. He's not falling all over the place this a false construct you've built in your mind.



How many days have you spent with him in the gym or with his nutritionist? I'm guessing the number is less than 1? Tell me what is his weekly diet? But you know about his conditioning? You know nothing about this mans condition or his nutrition but you are making an inference without any quantifiable fact. Eating another apple is not going to keep you on your feet.

Again I've asked you when he adds muscle and he gets gassed more easily and he has to play less ATOI and scores less. what have you gained? There is a push pull for everything you do with your body. I'm more gym acive than most people, in my younger years I gained 40lbs of muscle, did cardio too, to prevent me from losing my lungs and even with all that, I was gassed much more easily than I was when I was 170 lbs vs 210 lbs. 11th highest scoring player over the last 6 years needs better conditioning ... OK Doc...

You think a guy who makes 11 mil doesn't have every sports scientist working for MLSE looking at every possible metric?

6 years ago he had an interview where he talked about Yck Veggies .. and how he ate a lot of carbs.. Two eyars ago he made an adjustment, gained 9 lbs and was quoted as saying "I'm proud of the adjustments I made," he said. "Trying to eat healthier and eat better and get the right food in me and hopefully it pans out to make it a successful season again."

Simply put your assumptions are wrong.

Five paragraphs of shaming language. When are you Rocket Security guys gonna reach the "acceptance" phase of the grieving process?

At over 380 pages, this thread is ridiculous. I find it hard to believe that anything that is being said hasn't already said a dozen times. I have to wonder if the posters in this thread are like this offline, droning on and on about the same things over and over, again and again, ad nauseum. Maybe that's why some of them have taken their constant beating of an expired equine online -- none of their feline friends want to listen to it anymore.

Tone Police somewhere else. No one is forcing you to read it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yawn. Casuals dont know how to use google...lol.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5037332/2023/11/08/nhl-edge-data-shot-speed-location?source=user-shared-article

Google doesn't get me past paywalls and the Athletic prints too much nonsense to be considered the gospel truth on any hockey related subject.