Trapper
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- Nov 21, 2013
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Yeah but will Marner do whatever it takes to win like Kikuchi?
Even the Jays go to the dirty areas.
Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus
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Even the Jays go to the dirty areas.
- Dec 12, 2017
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Kazparov
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Larcos_Unal
Excuses are for losers
If the Jays know how to excel at one thing, it's bulking up their players.
ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
If there a lower point in Toronto sports history than Atkins + Dubas + Masai 2.0?
kevsh
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- Nov 28, 2018
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Or maybe that's the one strategy that will work to get him going? (I say that half-seriously)
I will never, ever question Vegas on any move they make. Even the ones that didn't go so well they somehow still overcame them. So if they trade for Marner lay down your bets early on them winning the Cup, perhaps a few times.
Mess
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Sheldon Keefe reportedly afraid of what would happen if he benched Mitch Marner
Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman has confirmed that Sheldon Keefe treated Mitch Marner differently than his teammates because he was afraid of how Marner would react to criticism and/or punishment.
Many gave Sheldon Keefe flack for not being tougher on certain players during his time in Toronto. We saw Keefe lay down the law with William Nylander more than once during his tenure in Toronto, but other players on the team, more specifically Mitch Marner, seemed to avoid his wrath after a poor performance.While we saw Keefe bench Nylander for making mistakes, we never really saw it with Marner even though it was warranted at times. We finally may have an answer as to why that was the case.
Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman was on 'Leafs Morning Take' yesterday and was asked about the Marner situation. The conversation led to him discussing how Nylander and Matthews have a 'thick skin' and can handle the market, but how Marner's skin may not be as thick. Friedman emphasized that some people have a thicker skin and some do not but that's how life works.
With that being said, Friedman revealed that Keefe was aware of this and that is why he wasn't as hard on Marner as he was Nylander and others.
Sensitivity may not have been the best word choice to describe Marner, but essentially, Keefe, like every coach, had to learn and connect with each player in their own way. Friedman went on to say that it will be interesting to see how new Leafs head coach Craig Berube approaches things with players.
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rumman
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- Sep 10, 2008
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Trade Mitch to Boston even up for Ullmark the underlying benefit is it will be automatic round 2 next year because apparently we know Mitch can’t win and ofcourse we will be playing Boston again.
Wasn't there a time we were called loserville north, last place for all our teams, or something very close to that.
Tak7
Registered User
Friedman on LMT:
On CapFriendly:
On Marner:
On CapFriendly:
- The Capitals bought the infrastructure, tools, and 3 employees.
- All the teams in the league build their own secret models - but it's expensive and labor intensive. A lot of teams, including Capitals, were paying CapFriendly to use their infrastructure & tools. Caps are a very analytically-driven organization that wanted to grow their department, so decided to buy it to expand their it.
- A number of teams used CF either in addition to what they had, or exclusively.
- Caps want and need mroe tools, so bought what already existed
- Says some teams have told him they were surprised that the site is still going. Felt the Capitals would have demanded that the site be shut down as soon as it was purchased. Believes there was a bit of a fight, but both have agreed to keep it open for the draft & opening of free agency
- Some teams don't think it will be an issue as they've worked on things internally (Calgary and Utah), but there are some teams that weren't too far along, and no CF will be an issue for them.
- There will be other sites and people to fill the void - mentions PuckPedia
- Thinks CF was sold for a 7-figure price, but can't confirm specific price.
On Marner:
- Doesn't believe there's anything new on the Marner situation
- Thinks people are under-estimating how complicated this whole thing is. Ferris has a history of taking his client to free agency.
- The contract Marner wants is a big issue. The NMC is also an issue
- Thinks Nylander has the thickest skin of anyone he's spoken to - just doesn't care, and nothing bothered him last season (playing as a pending UFA without an extension).
- Thinks people are really underestimating how sensitive everyone involved here is - everyone wants to come out of this looking like a winner. Questions the dressing room dynamics and how hard it would be to navigate next season if Marner comes back without an extension, seeing out the final year of his deal.
- Doesn't think the Leafs can give Marner the sort of money and term he's after in an extension, while already having Matthews and Nylander's big money deals on the books - can't try the same thing again
- Doesn't think Berube will be bothered by having Marner back as a pending UFA. Thinks the coach is confident enough in his abilities to get deal with that. Ponders whether the Leafs think the new ingredient of the head coach this year could bring about difference.
- Thought Keefe could be pretty hard on players like Nylander, but Keefe was always very careful when it came to Marner, because they felt Marner's sensitivities at times. Curious to see whether that changes under Berube
- Leafs put Nylander on the market last summer, and they didn't like the returns, so they kept him and started the year really well and got a good deal out of it. Wonders what happens if Marner comes out and starts the year very strong, and whether that changes anything.
- Thinks there are people within Leafs organization that are concerned about Marner becoming Kadri 2.0 - leaves, figures it out, becomes critical part of successful team, and people bring up that trade for years. Says Leafs publicly want people to know that they are not afraid of that, but what if Marner stays and starts the year like a house on fire. Thinks the pressure will be enormous to extend him, especially with Tavares money coming off the books.
- Unless they find a way to sell Marner on a move (which will not be easy), thinks this will go into next season. The best way to have a good year if you're Marner, is to play with Matthews
- Says he's knows Ferris for a long time and knows how he operates, and the one thing he knows is that Ferris is not giving up that free agency unless there's a huge contract offer from the Leafs or someone else.
- Marner's first choice is to stay - his family is here, and has a great setup here. Deep down, he understands that there's a possibility that this is it. Mentions that Keith Pelley can be a very tough negotiator, and wonders if that's one of the reasons why he was brought in here.
- Marner's first choice is to be a Leaf, but thinks deep down he knows Toronto has the choice here.
- Matthews has a really thick skin. Nylander has the thickest skin in the organization. Marner doesn't. If this goes into next year without a resolution, we know how it's giong to be in the marketplace, and he's not sure if Marner is ready for that.
- Expects Vegas to be around Marner - they are smart and always are around good players. Has people hypothesizing a package with Shea Theodore and Logan Thompson deals, for example.
- Thinks Leafs love Markstrom, but thinks it's too complicated a deal for Leafs to make - thinks LA and New Jersey are better suited to make that trade.
- Brossoit is interesting option - better make sure you have a third, like Martin Jones, because Woll and Brossoit don't equal 82 games. Wonders if they aim higher, and then fall back on Brossoit if they can't get a bigger name in
- Thinks that even though the organization really values and thinks highly of Woll, they'll go out and get the best possible goalie they can find. Woll has trouble staying healthy. If he goes down, who is the guy that makes you feel best? Thinks they will aim higher than Brossoit
- Think the like Zadorov, Tanev, Montour, Pesce, and Walker. Thinks they like all of them. Believes the Leafs will try and get 2 of those guys. Believes Zadorov will hit market, but there will be plenty of interest there from other teams. Thinks Dallas is trying to get something done with Tanev, but believes if he hits market the offers will be high. Believes Ottawa might do something for Tanev. Believes Florida will try to find a way to keep Montour. Walker will get plenty of interest. Pesce wanted 6x6 from Carolina, but believes Canes were comfortable at 5x5.
- Domi - wants term. Thinks Toronto is nervous about term. Thinks it gets done with both teams can find comfortable term.
- Bertuzzi - thinks Leafs really want to bring him back, but want to be very careful about term.
- Thinks if the Leafs lose these players, it'll be due to the Leafs not wanting to hand out term, not AAV.
Trapper
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Back in the days of the Norris Division, we were the Maple Laughs and Detroit was the Dead Things. Good times. That was still more fun than now.
- Dec 12, 2017
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Boston is horrible fit for Marner. The fans and Media are a lot tougher there than Toronto. He’ll end up in another soft market, although Quebec is nice landing spot.
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Larcos_Unal
Excuses are for losers
I knew Keefe wasn't it a couple of seasons ago when he criticized the stars, saying the other team's stars were better. Mitchy had words with him and the next day he walked back his comments.
There is no way in hell that a coach has the respect of that room when he's gotta bend over for one entitled little bitch.
Boston, Toronto, Tampa can finish anywhere in the Atlantic during the regular Season, potentially even #1 if all clicks and the Cats have injury or other concerns.
Issue is Boston and Toronto aren't built for long playoff runs, I don't believe Tampa is anymore either.
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
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If Marner asks for a trade, which is unlikely, he will get traded. I don't believe the Leafs even initiate discussions on a trade out of fear that Marner walks for nothing next year. The team cannot afford to lose him for nothing. Even a signed Marner with a NMC gives the team tradeable scenareos in the future once he is locked up. There would be no fear that he would go and leave the team high and dry.
An unsigned Marner has so much leverage right now that the 52.6% that feel he will be moved must really be either deluded or a casual.
An unsigned Marner has so much leverage right now that the 52.6% that feel he will be moved must really be either deluded or a casual.
thewave
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- Jun 17, 2011
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I find it amusing that most of Mitch Marner and Dubas supporters expect to be treated with kid gloves and rebuttal with Marneresque or Dubas type responses. It can get pretty waaaaaaagh waaaaaagh around here over Snitch Manrner
Not sure if I am the first to post on this, certainly not alone in noticing it though lol.
The Masters
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- Jun 30, 2018
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As I’ve said, Marner is a mental midget and is not a guy you go to playoff battle with.
This is not some 20 year old. Hes going to be 28. Why are we talking about him “figuring things out” at his age, like he’s a rookie?
Competing, battling, give a crap is something you are born with. If you don’t have it by 27, with the experiences that Mitch has had, he just doesn’t have it.
I personally want him far away from Cowan in particular. Cowan, if anything, would be schooling Marner on compete and grit.
He’s become toxic at this point. You can check out the Marner thread for proof.
If he goes into next season unsigned, it will be a shit show from before the season starts, and will only get worse. It’s already started.
Bad for Marner, who already shows he can’t hack criticism or his ego being damaged.
Bad for the locker room, being distracted and divided.
Bad for the team on so many levels, from salary cap space to missing out on UFAs/trades that would help us fill more holes across our entire roster.
Marner is not Satan and he’s not the only reason why we have failed. Management owns all the failures, including bringing these losers back over and over again.
Why Marner is the focus is because Nylander and Matthews are signed, Marner is not and his contract expectations risk handcuffing this team even longer, with more years of wasted cap on a core that isn’t good enough.
When you need change, Marner is the easiest to get rid of. Tavares is overpaid, but he has 1 year left and could have value going forward as a 3C afterwards, provided it is at a significant discount. If not, bye JT.
That’s not the scenario we are at with Marner.
Losing Marner will hurt, and the ideal situation is that he takes reasonable deals and ups his compete level in the playoffs, but that hasn’t happened, ever, and only an idiot would think it’s going to happen as he gets older. Marner does not rise to challenge.
You can’t expect Berube to unleash Beast Mode Marner because it doesn’t exist. Babcock and Keefe challenged him and look how it ended for them. Babcock was a psychopath asshole but he saw it, and Keefe had to navigate with caution with sensitive Mitch.
That is some seriously messed up shit to be happening on a world class professional sports team.
This is the NHL, not Kindergarten and Mitch can take his special case of “the feels” and shove it up his arse, sideways.
It’s just how he’s built, and what he brings is good, but it’s not good enough and not what we need to win.
The Team comes before everyone else.
He needs to move on.
I agree that the team doesn't WANT to lose him for 'nothing', but in reality they can afford to and it wouldn't really be nothing.
You would be 'losing' him in exchange for $12-$13 million dollars in cap space he would take up, and more importantly what you could DO with that space instead of him.
In large part that is why if he DOES get traded, I'm not too worried about the return, if the Leafs "win" the trade or not.
Get as much as you can of course, but if he does get traded, and lets say you get a middle-to-late first round pick, a legit 2nd pair D-man and a mid-to-high (but not elite) level prospect...many would think that trade for Marner would be a loss (terrible trade). To me though, I would think you would be getting all that PLUS what you can immediately do with that money.
In my theoretical above, what you would really be doing would be trading Marner for a good 2nd pair D-man, a prospect, a 1st rounder, and maybe another top pair D-man and a very good goalie? Then take that 1st rounder you get in the trade and hold onto it and at the trade deadline use it as a piece to get the best available guy available. I think that would make this team a LOT better going into the playoffs next year (or the following year)
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
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People always have the mistaken notion that elite players are scaled in skill and contribution in direct proportion to salary. They arent. Elite players are so good that everyone else is below average. This has been studied many times over the years. They produce surplus value for every dollar of cap they take. It has been discussed here for years as well.
2 50 point players being paid 6MM is far worse than a 12MM Marner. The asset is of greater value than replacement players that are returned by the Cap. Nobody does this willingly if they want to keep their job. So a deficit return value is actually losing him for nothing. There is no polishing of that turd.
Trapper
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- Nov 21, 2013
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If this is true, we got the 2 with thick skin signed and ready to go. Build around the 2 forwards now from the net out.
You aren't going to replace his production, very unlikely.
That doesn't mean the team can't be BETTER without him and with some 'good' pieces plugged in where you are improving in net AND on the blue line.
And I personally like Marner, I'm not for running him out of town. My post was mostly from the view of those who seemingly can't wait to get rid of him.
Also, as others have said, its not Regular Season Mitch that is the problem, its Playoff Mitch. We have a few recent years of evidence saying that is the issue. It might very well be that the lesser peices you bring up...while maybe not as good as Mitch in the regular season....wouldn't have too hard of a time outperforming him in the playoffs.
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Gary Nylund
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- Oct 10, 2013
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This is all well and good for the regular season. What you're ignoring here is the fact that once we're a few games into the playoffs, Marner is the turd.
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