Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[HamiltonNHL]

We are now at a crossroads where we would like to perhaps remove both JT and Marner going forward and rebuild.

Essential moves to make a change.

 

[Nineteen67]

Essential moves to make a change.

View attachment 881117

Or Matthews. Or Nylander. Or Tavares. Find the best deal and go for it.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Rantanen was one of the main comparables at the time of Marner's deal, and he also got an NMC, in the final 2 years of his deal.

9.2 AAV Rantanen for 34 playoff goals in 81 games.
10.8 AAV Marner for 11 playoff goals in 57 games. Almost never scores as a series gets serious (games 5,6,7).

Dubas doesnt understand how to build a team.

Throwing away AAV is more important than "being really good at Corsi". Sad team.

Or Natthews. Or Nylander. Or Tavares. Find the best deal and go for it.

Tre and the Leafs want Nylander and Matthews.

They are moving on from Marner.

I'm comfortable trading Matthews.

 

[ACC1224]

I’m not sure why Mitch is taking heat for an NMC the team gave him. Was listening to the SDPN, they hit the nail on the head. The only people responsible for the situation we are in now is Leafs management minus Brad Treliving. We had the chance to trade this guy anytime before July 1st of 2023 and for some reason they didn’t.

Shanahan was too busy trying to win a dick measuring contest with Dubas instead of focusing on improving the team. IMO the moment Shanahan fired Dubas he should have gotten canned by the board as well. There’s no excuse for firing a GM 5 weeks before the draft and arguably the biggest off-season. If Marner is not moved before training camp, I think Shanahan won’t last the full of next season.

It's pretty evident there are many here that are blinded by their froth over Marner and don't really understand much of how the league works.

It's easier just to repeat the same stupid daily takes than it is to to formulate something meaningful.

 

[Nineteen67]

9.2 AAV Rantanen for 34 playoff goals in 81 games.
10.8 AAV Marner for 11 playoff goals in 57 games. Almost never scores as a series gets serious (games 5,6,7).

Dubas doesnt understand how to build a team.

Throwing away AAV is more important than "being really good at Corsi". Sad team.


Tre and the Leafs want Nylander and Matthews.

They are moving on from Marner.

I'm comfortable trading Matthews.

If they don’t find top end talent to lead, it probably doesn’t matter which combo they keep.

I’m not sure why Mitch is taking heat for an NMC the team gave him. Was listening to the SDPN, they hit the nail on the head. The only people responsible for the situation we are in now is Leafs management minus Brad Treliving. We had the chance to trade this guy anytime before July 1st of 2023 and for some reason they didn’t.

Shanahan was too busy trying to win a dick measuring contest with Dubas instead of focusing on improving the team. IMO the moment Shanahan fired Dubas he should have gotten canned by the board as well. There’s no excuse for firing a GM 5 weeks before the draft and arguably the biggest off-season. If Marner is not moved before training camp, I think Shanahan won’t last the full of next season.

I suspect Shanahan won’t be around after Pelley is more comfortable with the NHL.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

If they don’t find top end talent to lead, it probably doesn’t matter which combo they keep.

True.

The rebuild has failed. It was a terribly planned rebuild anyway.

Ultimately the Leafs are a shitty corporation.

 

[MCR74]

You cannot let him walk for nothing. This team has bled assets since the rookie GM took over and have been spinning their wheels trying to replace players they throw off the ship to pay the rotten core. It is not like Dubas left the cupboard bursting with prospects.

The floor should be a 30-40 goal scorer making $7-8m with some term and a 1st round pick for me. Anything more would be gravy.

Prepare for disappointment. Good luck finding a GM willing to throw away a first round pick for a $11.5M playoff failure. Not everybody is Kyle Dubas.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Treliving gave NMCs to Huberdeau, Kadri and Markstrom for anyone thinking things would be different with Marner had he been in charge.

Dubas made a lot of mistakes but Marner would’ve gotten a NMC from basically every GM, stupid to pretend otherwise. There are a ton of much worse players with NMCs in todays league.

I tend to think on an RFA deal that most GM's would get at least 1 singular concession out of the Marner Camp. We got absolutely ZERO from him....nothing extra for the shorter term and bigger money....it's like MM was both the Agent and GM at the same time. Schroedinger's contract if you will.

 

[MCR74]

I tend to think on an RFA deal that most GM's would get at least 1 singular concession out of the Marner Camp. We got absolutely ZERO from him....nothing extra for the shorter term and bigger money....it's like MM was both the Agent and GM at the same time. Schroedinger's contract if you will.

And now he wants a raise. f*** that.

 

[Trapper]

True.

The rebuild has failed. It was a terribly planned rebuild anyway.

Ultimately the Leafs are a shitty corporation.

The rebuild was cut after 3 turns.
They thought these 3 players were going to carry them through the playoffs and win Cups.
High draft picks were dealt, solid players allowed to walk or traded for sub par returns. No focus was made on trying to draft D when you had 4 forwards and players were instantly paid from ELC like 3x Cup champs.

It took Shanahan 6 times to finally not commit in a press conference to having full confidence in the core.

Just because you draft 2014,15 and 16 doesn’t mean you got the formula.
Otherwise guys like Thornton/ROR/Duchesne/Hall/Laine/etc. wouldn’t be traded and retool.

 

[socko]

I tend to think on an RFA deal that most GM's would get at least 1 singular concession out of the Marner Camp. We got absolutely ZERO from him....nothing extra for the shorter term and bigger money....it's like MM was both the Agent and GM at the same time. Schroedinger's contract if you will.

The money was insane. Nobody was getting that kind of money of their ELC except the McDavids of the world. Marner's 2nd contract was amongst the worst contracts in NHL history. Rantanen waited out Marner's contract and it didn't matter. Colorado was like "Dubas doesn't count". "Denied".

 

[socko]

I've never been in Darren Ferris's office, but I'm willing to bet he has a copy of Marner's contract framed somewhere.

 

[MCR74]

The money was insane. Nobody was getting that kind of money of their ELC except the McDavids of the world. Marner's 2nd contract was amongst the worst contracts in NHL history. Rantanen waited out Marner's contract and it didn't matter. Colorado was like "Dubas doesn't count". "Denied".

A smart GM will use Marner's playoff record against him in negotiations. Ferris is a lot of things, but even he can't deny that his client doesn't give two shits about the playoffs.

 

[supermann_98]

And now he wants a raise. f*** that.

Exactly, he got paid for what was anticipated he would become as a player and offensive force. Instead, he stagnated and remained the same 90-99 point winger with the same muffin shot and no improvement on his skating speed or physical strength, so in reality he did not live up to the terms of his contract, especially if you factor in his wilting under pressure come playoff time.

Anyone willing to give him $12m+ can have him, for free. I just hope we can get some prospects/picks for him and use that $11m to shore up the rest of the lineup.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Darren Ferris is Taylor Hall's agent and that guy could've had an insane contract instead of the nightmare purgatory he's living in now.

 

[Mess]

Rantanen was one of the main comparables at the time of Marner's deal, and he also got an NMC, in the final 2 years of his deal.

It does appear that in general, those that get NMCs compromise somewhere else in the deal - trade protection for a lower AAV or term etc.

Agreed NMC is a bargaining chip designed for a player that needs to be offset by a benefit to the team elsewhere by agreeing to it.

A player would need to trade some $$$ for some protection/say in my future destinations etc.

Note: As per CBA rules players can only have NMC in UFA status years, where the first 4 years of 2nd contracts are generally RFA status years and thus unavailable to players in contracts, that is why they only show up after 3 X ELC years & 4 RFA years have been fulfilled at the end of term deal.

Free agency status by CBA being age 27 or 7 years of service.

 

[The Masters]

The Leafs are going to want to avoid this situation lingering into the season. It will be a circus. Yes I know Marner holds the cards but if I had to guess, a deal gets done. I think a west coast team will pony up and Marner will take the nicer weather and golf

 

[ToneDog]

The money was insane. Nobody was getting that kind of money of their ELC except the McDavids of the world. Marner's 2nd contract was amongst the worst contracts in NHL history. Rantanen waited out Marner's contract and it didn't matter. Colorado was like "Dubas doesn't count". "Denied".

Even an idiot knew that Dubas was in over his head and yet they kept him on for 5 years and were about to extend him FFS. LOL. And you wonder why the Leafs are the laughing stock of the NHL and have not won a cup since 1967!! 57 years!!

But hey, we are are #1 in jersey sales. Pelley is going to choke "we are not here to sell jerseys". Rookie Pres, rookie GM, rookie coach and now they put a guy at the top who knows GOLF!!!!

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I've never been in Darren Ferris's office, but I'm willing to bet he has a copy of Marner's contract framed somewhere.

The NHLPA has a huge framed picture of Dubas.

 

[MCR74]

Exactly, he got paid for what was anticipated he would become as a player and offensive force. Instead, he stagnated and remained the same 90-99 point winger with the same muffin shot and no improvement on his skating speed or physical strength, so in reality he did not live up to the terms of his contract, especially if you factor in his wilting under pressure come playoff time.

Anyone willing to give him $12m+ can have him, for free. I just hope we can get some prospects/picks for him and use that $11m to shore up the rest of the lineup.

Didn't live up to it at all. These guys talk a good game but are nowhere to be found once the action starts. Here's to some other team finding out for themselves. When Marner lands elsewhere, it certainly won't be on a contender. They don't need his kind.

Getting something in return would be nice, but I'm not expecting the moon. I'd be shocked if we got anywhere near what Dorion managed in the Karlsson trade.

I've never been in Darren Ferris's office, but I'm willing to bet he has a copy of Marner's contract framed somewhere.

So does Mitch.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Yes I know Marner holds the cards but if I had to guess, a deal gets done

Agreed.

Marner himself needs out. For his well being.

 

[ToneDog]

The Leafs are going to want to avoid this situation lingering into the season. It will be a circus. Yes I know Marner holds the cards but if I had to guess, a deal gets done. I think a west coast team will pony up and Marner will take the nicer weather and golf

Mirtle says they need to get it done soon so they know what their needs are going into FA. I just hope they do not blow it like they did with Kadri.

The Leafs are going to want to avoid this situation lingering into the season. It will be a circus. Yes I know Marner holds the cards but if I had to guess, a deal gets done. I think a west coast team will pony up and Marner will take the nicer weather and golf

Sharks won't be making the playoffs soon so he can help fill the arena for them until they can ice an NHL team.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I tend to think on an RFA deal that most GM's would get at least 1 singular concession out of the Marner Camp. We got absolutely ZERO from him....nothing extra for the shorter term and bigger money....it's like MM was both the Agent and GM at the same time. Schroedinger's contract if you will.

That concession was never going to be a lack of NMC, I agree the AAV was too high.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Mirtle says they need to get it done soon so they know what their needs are going into FA. I just hope they do not blow it like they did with Kadri.


Sharks won't be making the playoffs soon so he can help fill the arena for them until they can ice an NHL team.

The return hardly matters to me at this point. Ensure there is 1 premium asset + secondary pieces is good enough

 

[ACC1224]