Player Discussion Mitch Marner - On Hiatus

[ToneDog]

Marner should have been working on speed and, more importantly, his shot since the day he entered the NHL. His inability to shoot the puck from distance makes it a little easier to defend, especially in the playoffs.

He'll probably go off the same cliff JT did but sooner IMO.

 

[Racer88]

Mitch should be watching Stankoven. Bieksa said that he tells his smaller 17 year olds that if you want success against the bigger players, you need to be really fast or really strong and fearless. Stankoven is all of the above.

So razzle dazzle and fancy edge work won’t get it done. Lol
I agree with you 100%. Marner is so overrated it not funny.

Marner should have been working on speed and, more importantly, his shot since the day he entered the NHL. His inability to shoot the puck from distance makes it a little easier to defend, especially in the playoffs.

He has done nothing to elevate his game, instead he simply feeds on empty calories as Matthews line mate

 

[therealkoho]

That seems weird, optically.

They're arguing and Marner randomly throws gloves?

If it were me and considering the situation;

1. I'm playing below standard
2. The season is looking like another lost cause
3. We're getting goalied
4. The team is totally disjointed
5. I'm royally pissed it's all going wrong and the two morons flanking me are nattering at each other about positioning or some BS. I'd tell them both to STFU in no uncertain terms and to get their heads in the game and then ask the trainer for dry gloves.

If it were me!

 

[LeafSteel]

Can someone send Snizz Mitch video of Ryan Lomberg?

Both are the same size.

One makes $725K, one wants $12m.

One shows up for the playoffs, one, well, you know…..

 

[therealkoho]

120 price point for 100 pt production. Less comparable playoff output. The only one of our 4 top paid players in line is Matthews for goal production. Less than adequate playoff output, but you could argue perhaps that Marner was holding him back by being a non factor.

It could be the other way round too y'know

 

[myleafs]

nice watching this Rangers Panthers series.

meaningful hockey.

don't remember when I watched a truly meaningful leafs game.

Yep the contrast in play is massive.

If he doesn't want to waive his NMC, and he starts the season on a tear, the vast majority of the fan base will love him again. Putting that aside, it's not inconceivable that management wants to give Berube the chance to coach all of them, so the team keeps Marner, brings back Domi and Bertuzzi, and simply waits out the year for Tavares' contract to expire. In that scenario, the available cap space goes to the defense and a goalie, and that's it.

yay...so run it all the way back then? sweet. what could go wrong?

 

[myleafs]

They easily do with Brodie and Samsonov coming off the cap. Whether it would be a good decision or not is a different story. If it were me, I would let Bertuzzi go.

I know you didnt mean like this but it made me laugh...the idea of yea we free up some cap from a dman and goalie so lets invest it in 2 forwards....lol

The vast majority still want him on the team. This place is more militant than the average fan and less than 20% would boo him. Of the fans that actually go to games I’d think it would be less than 10%.

false

 

[myleafs]

Never give out a contract you couldn’t move tomorrow if you need. That doesn’t mean lowball, but there should never be a NMC with these contracts. Limited 10 team trade is fine.

I wondered if giving no movement clauses are the deal breaker....ok Matthews we will give you 13+ and make you the highest paid player in the league but we dont want to include the nmc.....does he just say nevermind Im leaving? Same with 88 and 16.

 

[myleafs]

Absolutely. You not over overpay RFAs but given them a full NMC in the last year?

Its why I suspect that Dubas really did want to move some of the core before this kicked in. Instead, he was kicked out.

I dont believe it no matter how often you suggest it

 

[Antropovsky]

xGF% as a predictor is always spot on.

Key word there is predictor. The issue with xGF% in the playoffs is that you're condensed to a 28 games max schedule.

You either scored or you didn't in the Playoffs. There's not going to be enough games for normalization.

The stats I'm citing are season 5v5, Marner played 277 mins without Matthews and 720 mins with Matthews.

With Matthews his xgf%:55,
without Matthews xgf%:46
Matthews without Marner xgf%:55

 

[Arzak]

Here is a tip. Gf and xgf are supposed to converge over time...all thing being equal. xgf% adds more error. If you are attempting to use short term xgf% at the expense of long term gf% to prove a player is crap, your analysis is crap.

Oh yeah, tell us more about xgf. The time when Mitchs xgf=GF has been predicted since his first season.

It will be fun watching this 100-point pacer perform without the best goal-scorer in the league.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Ullmark leads hot goalie market; Marner wants to stay — The Fourth Period

Linus Ullmark is among several goalies available for trade, Mitch Marner prefers Toronto, and more from David Pagnotta.

www.thefourthperiod.com

MARNER WANTS TO STAY

As of Friday night, the Toronto Maple Leafs have not approached Mitch Marner and his agent Darren Ferris about the 27-year-old’s contract or potentially waiving his no-movement clause. I still believe that discussion will occur at some point in the not-too-distant future, but as of now it hasn’t happened.

In speaking with those close to Marner’s camp, it remains clear his desire to stay in Toronto has not wavered. I’m told Marner’s preference and priority is to be with the Maple Leafs long-term. That’s his goal. Do the Maple Leafs feel differently? That is what management will discuss and debate internally.

I believe both parties understand what the ballpark looks like to getting an extension done. Those formal negotiations have not taken place, either, but the Leafs know what it will take to get Marner inked to a new deal. They must weigh the pros and cons, as they view it, and as Leafs President Brendan Shanahan repeatedly stated two weeks ago, “we will consider everything this summer.”

There is no doubt in my mind Marner will be extremely disappointed if the Maple Leafs opt for a change, and he is entirely within his right to hold firm and exercise his NMC. However, if the Maple Leafs decide they want to explore the trade market and ask Marner for a list of teams he would waive his NMC for, it is my understanding he will consider his options, as I reported earlier this month. Teams like Nashville, Vegas, Chicago and Dallas are just four clubs I would keep an eye on, if/when Leafs GM Brad Treliving goes shopping.

One thing to consider, if Toronto goes down this path, they will want to maximize a return, and MLSE isn’t afraid to flex their financial muscles and pay Marner’s upcoming $7.25 million bonus before finalizing a trade.

It’s hard not to get ahead of ourselves when dealing with such a juicy topic, so there isn’t much else to report until the Leafs and Marner have ‘that’ talk. But rest assured many around the League are interested to see how this plays out.

 

[Trapper]

I wondered if giving no movement clauses are the deal breaker....ok Matthews we will give you 13+ and make you the highest paid player in the league but we dont want to include the nmc.....does he just say nevermind Im leaving? Same with 88 and 16.

Even with a limited no trade clause, what are the odds you would be moving Matthews in the length of his next contract? Slim to none. Plus they just made him the highest paid player in the league. You get that money no matter where you go.

 

[myleafs]

Even with a limited no trade clause, what are the odds you would be moving Matthews in the length of his next contract? Slim to none. Plus they just made him the highest paid player in the league. You get that money no matter where you go.

I get that...I was just speculating that what would happen if we didnt offer any of the core nmc when they got their contracts....would any of them have just said no and then leave? Does Nylander say no to 11.5 x 8 if it doesnt include a nmc? And if not then why are we handing them out like candy and putting ourselves in a tough spot in not being able to move any of them if we wanted?

 

[Trapper]

I get that...I was just speculating that what would happen if we didnt offer any of the core nmc when they got their contracts....would any of them have just said no and then leave? Does Nylander say no to 11.5 x 8 if it doesnt include a nmc? And if not then why are we handing them out like candy and putting ourselves in a tough spot in not being able to move any of them if we wanted?

That’s the question. Yes it’s the job of the GM to secure talent, but it’s also the job to secure talent at a cost to build out an entire roster and not be handcuffed if changes need to be made.

Look at the issues with Marner right now.
Dubas was so focused on proving everyone wrong with his, we can we will, he didn’t stop to think of we can but should we?

 

[Menzinger]

I get that...I was just speculating that what would happen if we didnt offer any of the core nmc when they got their contracts....would any of them have just said no and then leave? Does Nylander say no to 11.5 x 8 if it doesnt include a nmc? And if not then why are we handing them out like candy and putting ourselves in a tough spot in not being able to move any of them if we wanted?

Even 3rd and 4th liners are getting NTCs and NMCs in free agency now. It's not just a Leafs issue.

Players and Agents have learned that no GM is willing to risk potentially losing a player over.

 

[Commander Clueless]

Can someone send Snizz Mitch video of Ryan Lomberg?

Both are the same size.

One makes $725K, one wants $12m.

One shows up for the playoffs, one, well, you know…..

Terrible take.



Mitch is much bigger.

 

[ToneDog]

Can someone send Snizz Mitch video of Ryan Lomberg?

Both are the same size.

One makes $725K, one wants $12m.

One shows up for the playoffs, one, well, you know…..

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Mark Twain

 

[ToneDog]

3 years ago - Mitch Marner is afraid to get hit.​

There’s no need to overanalyse why he was invisible all series. He’s afraid to get hit.

It was as obvious in the regular season, but in playoffs when all hits are finished, you really get to see it. This explains the five puck over glass penalties in the playoffs. He hears footsteps. Watch him go into the corner - he wins the foot race but then let’s the opposing player pick up the puck first.
I mean, it’s all well and good to play this way in the regular season - he is 165 pounds and all, so he’s trying to avoid injury. But in the playoffs, especially a game 7, you’ve got to take a hit to make the play.
That top line was completely useless all series because someone would throw the puck in the corner, and if Hyman wasn’t able to be the first on it and win the battle, it was an instant turnover.



3 years later nothing has changed except he now wants McDavid money.

 

[Confucius]

Ullmark leads hot goalie market; Marner wants to stay — The Fourth Period

Linus Ullmark is among several goalies available for trade, Mitch Marner prefers Toronto, and more from David Pagnotta.

www.thefourthperiod.com

MARNER WANTS TO STAY

As of Friday night, the Toronto Maple Leafs have not approached Mitch Marner and his agent Darren Ferris about the 27-year-old’s contract or potentially waiving his no-movement clause. I still believe that discussion will occur at some point in the not-too-distant future, but as of now it hasn’t happened.

In speaking with those close to Marner’s camp, it remains clear his desire to stay in Toronto has not wavered. I’m told Marner’s preference and priority is to be with the Maple Leafs long-term. That’s his goal. Do the Maple Leafs feel differently? That is what management will discuss and debate internally.

I believe both parties understand what the ballpark looks like to getting an extension done. Those formal negotiations have not taken place, either, but the Leafs know what it will take to get Marner inked to a new deal. They must weigh the pros and cons, as they view it, and as Leafs President Brendan Shanahan repeatedly stated two weeks ago, “we will consider everything this summer.”

There is no doubt in my mind Marner will be extremely disappointed if the Maple Leafs opt for a change, and he is entirely within his right to hold firm and exercise his NMC. However, if the Maple Leafs decide they want to explore the trade market and ask Marner for a list of teams he would waive his NMC for, it is my understanding he will consider his options, as I reported earlier this month. Teams like Nashville, Vegas, Chicago and Dallas are just four clubs I would keep an eye on, if/when Leafs GM Brad Treliving goes shopping.

One thing to consider, if Toronto goes down this path, they will want to maximize a return, and MLSE isn’t afraid to flex their financial muscles and pay Marner’s upcoming $7.25 million bonus before finalizing a trade.

It’s hard not to get ahead of ourselves when dealing with such a juicy topic, so there isn’t much else to report until the Leafs and Marner have ‘that’ talk. But rest assured many around the League are interested to see how this plays out.

Sounds like Kipper may be correct, Mitch knows a new team is basically getting him for free next year, so I’m sure he will want a premium deal. lol!.instead of 14 million his agent will suggest 12.5 if he gets an 8 year deal here 1st. Then they’ll play the it’s not really 12.5 in real money since this year was basically free.. so it’s really only costing the new club 11.5 in actual dollars although the cap hit would still be 12.5.

Amazingly Mitch could get that 100 million.

 

[ToneDog]

Sounds like Kipper may be correct, Mitch knows a new team is basically getting him for free next year, so I’m sure he will want a premium deal. lol!.instead of 14 million his agent will suggest 12.5 if he gets an 8 year deal here 1st. Then they’ll play the it’s not really 12.5 in real money since this year was basically free.. so it’s really only costing the new club 11.5 in actual dollars although the cap hit would still be 12.5.

Amazingly Mitch could get that 100 million.

100% he is not getting $100m in Toronto. Pelley/Shanny/Tre know Leafs nation has had it with this core and want changes. The smart thing for Mitch is to do is to accept trade to the team that will pay him the most and expect the least.

 

[Craig Button]

Here is a tip. Gf and xgf are supposed to converge over time...all thing being equal. xgf% adds more error. If you are attempting to use short term xgf% at the expense of long term gf% to prove a player is crap, your analysis is crap.

Hey let’s keep the girlfriends and ex girlfriends out of this

 

[Confucius]

100% he is not getting $100m in Toronto. Pelley/Shanny/Tre know Leafs nation has had it with this core and want changes. The smart thing for Mitch is to do is to accept trade to the team that will pay him the most and expect the least.

I could see it as a sign and trade. Mitch agrees to Leave we give him an 8 year deal at 12.5 x 8. His new club gets Mitch for 9 years and pays 100 million in real money. We paid next year’s salary on July 1st. It certainly could work that way

 

[Stephen]

I believe that poster is probably referring to the interview he did on Kyper and Bourne. It actually stood out to me too because if I recall correctly he said how he had spoken to pretty much the entire team but Marner was the only one he mentioned by name that he spoke to and did so more than once and he kept going on about what a great player he is. I found it interesting just how much he focused on him. Berube clearly understands the drama around Marner right now so it could be he's pumping his tires but it sounded a lot like he's excited to coach him this season. That's how I took it anyway.

To be fair I can see any incoming coaching looking at the Big 4 and think they could get more juice out of them than the previous coach, but to that I say, good luck.

 

[Superstar]

I could see it as a sign and trade. Mitch agrees to Leave we give him an 8 year deal at 12.5 x 8. His new club gets Mitch for 9 years and pays 100 million in real money. We paid next year’s salary on July 1st. It certainly could work that way

I don't think any team is paying Marner $12.5 million per for 8 years...that's $100K short of MacKinnon money...he'll be lucky to even get the Nylander contract.