Mitch Marner Offseason Continued

[SeaOfBlue]

100%

Marner needs to return back something outstanding or you keep him.

Then you run the question of what happens if Marner fails again? Is that Dubas' fault because he did not move him or do anything? Heck you can replace Dubas and keep Marner. What happens if Marner fails at that point?

At the very least the Leafs need to change how they use him and who they use him with. It is clear he can't drive a line, but he can make the drivers look better when he is on.

 

[Torontonian]

As much as he sucked in the playoffs, give it a break with bashing him for going on vacation. I think people tend to forget even though he's a professional athlete and this is still a job for him. He's allowed to forget about his job and go on vacation much like the rest of you do.

As for the hockey talk, Marner needs to develop his shot, that's the next thing he needs to add to his repertoire. He has the vison, he has the play making ability, he's pretty good in his own end for the most part. He needs to be more of a threat in the offensive zone as much of the NHL knows he's looking for the pass first, it doesn't have to become like Matthews but needs to become enough of a threat where teams need to respect his ability to shoot and opens up more room. Marner is never going to be a big guy that goes along the boards and wins constant battles, that's just not who he is as a player.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Then you run the question of what happens if Marner fails again? Is that Dubas' fault because he did not move him or do anything? Heck you can replace Dubas and keep Marner. What happens if Marner fails at that point?

At the very least the Leafs need to change how they use him and who they use him with. It is clear he can't drive a line, but he can make the drivers look better when he is on.

Hard to say, his career pt/game in the playoffs are better than a lot of notable players but we know he's capable of more, the problem is compounded by the fact we've sunk so much into 4 players, not just Marner.

Making our own version of a Hall for Larsson trade isn't the best move but if something for Marner/Provorov materialized? Yea, look at it.

If the best offer is the NYI 1st and Kempe from LAK, you probably just keep Marner another year.

 

[Torontonian]

You know something that always stuck out to me??? How we 'lucked' into Marner.

At the draft I always found it strange that Phoenix didn't draft him and took Strome. I know all the reasons, centre, bigger player, could score goals etc. Strome was highly touted.

But it was clear as day Mitch Marner was the better more talented player with a much higher ceiling and they STILL took Strome. I'm not defending Phoenix their loss is our gain, but, Phoenix seen something they didn't like and passed. I think we are seeing now the flaws in this game and in his will to win.

Well to be fair, Phoenix took Strome and then traded him off because he simply wasn't an effective player for them. I don't think they saw him and said they didn't like his game, they got memorized by Stromes size and position and thought he was the next big force up the middle of the ice. They also don't draft very well there in general, IMO. It was pretty clear leading up to that draft Strome wasn't a very good skater as well.

 

[Racer88]

Then you run the question of what happens if Marner fails again? Is that Dubas' fault because he did not move him or do anything? Heck you can replace Dubas and keep Marner. What happens if Marner fails at that point?

At the very least the Leafs need to change how they use him and who they use him with. It is clear he can't drive a line, but he can make the drivers look better when he is on.

Changing how they use him will require a coaching change and I just don’t see that happening if Dubas is still there.
It’s to bad that a player being paid 11 million dollars can’t adapt to the way he is being played

 

[WTFMAN99]

Changing how they use him will require a coaching change and I just don’t see that happening if Dubas is still there.
It’s to bad that a player being paid 11 million dollars can’t adapt to the way he is being played

The push back he had towards moving off the right point/half wall blows my mind.

 

[koyvoo]

Put up or shut up time next spring for both of our coward superstar fakers. Bottom line.

 

[Racer88]

The push back he had towards moving off the right point/half wall blows my mind.

Yup

 

[killer1980]

As much as he sucked in the playoffs, give it a break with bashing him for going on vacation. I think people tend to forget even though he's a professional athlete and this is still a job for him. He's allowed to forget about his job and go on vacation much like the rest of you do.

Sorry, he is in the public eye and represents the people of the city and he makes more in 1/4 year than most of us will make in our lifetime. I could even forgive him for disappearing during the playoffs, but not for his arrogance and lack of empathy for the fans who have waited now more than 54 years to see their heroes win the Cup. From my perspective he is no hero, he is a zero. Posting himself on the beach was the last straw. How did he get to travel under this lockdown? Will he have to quarantine when he returns? He acts like he is better and more entitled than everyone else. As far as I'm concerned he can take his attitude and his suntan someplace else. He can take the guy that gave him that opportunity with him.

 

[Mad hatter]

Put up or shut up time next spring for both of our coward superstar fakers. Bottom line.

Hard to blame Matthews when Montreal double teamed him. How many chances did Marner have because Montreal left Marner all by himself for Price to worry about. When there’s no threat of a shot it makes the player easier to defend

 

[ShaneFalco]

The push back he had towards moving off the right point/half wall blows my mind.

And why it would be tolerated blows mine

 

[koyvoo]

Hard to blame Matthews when Montreal double teamed him. How many chances did Marner have because Montreal left Marner all by himself for Price to worry about. When there’s no threat of a shot it makes the player easier to defend

Matthews was better than Marner. If Marner’s performance was the measuring stick for what’s an acceptable performance, we’re screwed. The fact of the matter is that it’s 5 post seasons in, and they’ve both failed to play to their standards and abilities far more often then not.

Absolutely both spineless cowards until they raise their level of play when games matter and opponents bring max effort every shift, like true superstar winners do. We need then to find another gear, not struggle to maintain something close to their own gear.

 

[ACC1224]

Fundamentally I agree with you that the GM would need to know what to do with cap space……clearly ours does not.
In a perfect world you don’t cap dump Marner but keeping him when he adds nothing in the playoffs.
Him and Dubas have put the team in a rough position……dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t

I can’t imagine the team has lost faith in him yet.

 

[KuleminFan41]

You know something that always stuck out to me??? How we 'lucked' into Marner.

At the draft I always found it strange that Phoenix didn't draft him and took Strome. I know all the reasons, centre, bigger player, could score goals etc. Strome was highly touted.

But it was clear as day Mitch Marner was the better more talented player with a much higher ceiling and they STILL took Strome. I'm not defending Phoenix their loss is our gain, but, Phoenix seen something they didn't like and passed. I think we are seeing now the flaws in this game and in his will to win.

You can play this game all day though, that same draft, Zacha went ahead of Rantanen, and Crouse went before Barzal, DeBrusk and Brock Boeser. Hell, Aho went 35th that draft

The tax issue is at least partly mitigated by structuring contracts around bonuses. Money up front matters.

Also, I believe certain types of bonuses are escrow exempt. Assuming Toronto structures their contracts with those bonuses, the player would come away with more money despite paying higher taxes.

Players can take less money towards the cap in tax haven states as they'd be making similar money after taxes to comparable players throughout the league. We simply don't know if Point would have taken 7 million had he played in another state. But here's the thing, he took a bridge deal, so we don't know what his contract will look like after this up coming season. Same goes for someone like Barzal too, who you'd have to imagine gets a raise also

 

[Bluelines]

Scotty Bowman on trading Marner 36:00 minute mark

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2021/06/12/mlhs-podcast-episode-19-with-scotty-bowman/

 

[AvroArrow]

Put up or shut up time next spring for both of our coward superstar fakers. Bottom line.

That was not Matthews fault. He hit a few posts and overall played well. He was engaged, hitting etc. He was getting smothered so he moved the puck, which is the right play, Mitch killed every opportunity. Couldn't bury good looks, passed up scoring chances, and then hogs the puck when a teammate has a tap in. Losing easy battles, trying to dance through 3 guys. Matthews wasn't perfect but he was WAY better than Marner. IMO that line failed because of Mitch.

 

[Dreakmur]

Players can take less money towards the cap in tax haven states as they'd be making similar money after taxes to comparable players throughout the league. We simply don't know if Point would have taken 7 million had he played in another state. But here's the thing, he took a bridge deal, so we don't know what his contract will look like after this up coming season. Same goes for someone like Barzal too, who you'd have to imagine gets a raise also

Yes, that’s how bridge deals work. That’s probably why most knowledgeable posters here wanted either 8 years or a bridge deal. Instead Dubas signed these overpaid partial bridge contracts.

 

[Aus34Matt]

As for the hockey talk, Marner needs to develop his shot, that's the next thing he needs to add to his repertoire. He has the vison, he has the play making ability, he's pretty good in his own end for the most part. He needs to be more of a threat in the offensive zone as much of the NHL knows he's looking for the pass first, it doesn't have to become like Matthews but needs to become enough of a threat where teams need to respect his ability to shoot and opens up more room. Marner is never going to be a big guy that goes along the boards and wins constant battles, that's just not who he is as a player.

Don't kid yourself, nothing will change. This is the player the Leafs have and will always be for his entire career.

No thanks. I bet he keeps his playoffs streak alive.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

As much as he sucked in the playoffs, give it a break with bashing him for going on vacation. I think people tend to forget even though he's a professional athlete and this is still a job for him. He's allowed to forget about his job and go on vacation much like the rest of you do.

As for the hockey talk, Marner needs to develop his shot, that's the next thing he needs to add to his repertoire. He has the vison, he has the play making ability, he's pretty good in his own end for the most part. He needs to be more of a threat in the offensive zone as much of the NHL knows he's looking for the pass first, it doesn't have to become like Matthews but needs to become enough of a threat where teams need to respect his ability to shoot and opens up more room. Marner is never going to be a big guy that goes along the boards and wins constant battles, that's just not who he is as a player.

I agree with you when it comes to his needs. The question is, does he know he needs to work on his shot? After all this time, why hasn't his shot improved at all. I think he also needs to work on his skating as well and learn to be stronger on his skates. Too often he's flailing on the ice of his own doing or of the oppostion player.

As for the vacation, I don't agree with you. The optics of posting a pic on vacation, while the playoffs are still on, and the team that embarassed you is winning, are not good. If you're going to go on vacation at this time, lay low. But then again, he's an arrogant little cuss.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Yes, that’s how bridge deals work. That’s probably why most knowledgeable posters here wanted either 8 years or a bridge deal. Instead Dubas signed these overpaid partial bridge contracts.

The unhappy medium is his goal it seems.

5 year deal with Matthews ?

f*** you, Bridge.

 

[WTFMAN99]

And why it would be tolerated blows mine

I'm watching the TBL PP and either he needs to move to that spot at left face off circle or to the 2nd PP. The use that the TBL gets out of Point at the bumper spot is insane, we need to incorporate that


Net
Net front presence

Marner/Nylander Tavares Matthews

Point shot

 

[keonsbitterness]

Don't kid yourself, nothing will change. This is the player the Leafs have and will always be for his entire career.

No thanks. I bet he keeps his playoffs streak alive.

The conclusion is obvious: too many tripping penalties!

 

[Torontonian]

.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Yes, that’s how bridge deals work. That’s probably why most knowledgeable posters here wanted either 8 years or a bridge deal. Instead Dubas signed these overpaid partial bridge contracts.

The thing is, if you sign Marner and Matthews to 3 year bridge deals , the likelihood of their caphit being even greater is a strong possibility. Especially seeing as they put up a ton of points and contracts are based off the season, not the playoffs. I think people tend to forget, a lot of players signed 5 year deals like Toews, Kane, Crosby, Stamkos , Marchand, Malkin , Bergeron etc etc . Hell, Bergeron signed a 3 year, then a 5 year, then 8 a year deal. Yes, those are old deals signed with a lower cap hit, but this isn't new. Does that mean they aren't expensive contracts? Of course not, but one of the biggest reasons these deals look worse today, is because of the cap not moving. Some were suggesting at least a 10 million bump in cap and potentially reaching 15 or more. Not to say that Dubas did a great job or a bad job, but no one really could foresee the pandemic

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The thing is, if you sign Marner and Matthews to 3 year bridge deals , the likelihood of their caphit being even greater is a strong possibility.

You think bridging Marner would result in more money ?

No.

NOT TO MENTION:
I dont mind paying for performance.