Mitch Marner Offseason Continued

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Brayden Point signing for 6.75M within days of Marner is just ridiculous. I don't care what the excuses are around taxes, Babcock being mean, signing bonus shenanigans with Lou, not being considered as a candidate for captain, offersheets etc.

Figure it out. The salary cap is not what you thought it'd be. Please be proactive with the new information available.

Carey Price is the only guy in the playoffs making 10M+. Marner looked like he could play the full 60 minutes of each game without scoring.

Sorry guys I'm feeling disgusted by this playoffs and am blaming most of it on Marner, but seriously, him and Matthews were not good. At least Matthews wasn't making glaring mistakes.

 

[Torontonian]

Sorry, he is in the public eye and represents the people of the city and he makes more in 1/4 year than most of us will make in our lifetime. I could even forgive him for disappearing during the playoffs, but not for his arrogance and lack of empathy for the fans who have waited now more than 54 years to see their heroes win the Cup. From my perspective he is no hero, he is a zero. Posting himself on the beach was the last straw. How did he get to travel under this lockdown? Will he have to quarantine when he returns? He acts like he is better and more entitled than everyone else. As far as I'm concerned he can take his attitude and his suntan someplace else. He can take the guy that gave him that opportunity with him.

So because he's in a profession where he is the in the top 1% of the world at his job and makes more money then average Joe he can't live his life? I am just as passionate Leaf fan as every one on this forum and would love nothing more seeing them win the cup, but I don't agree with shitting on a person because when hes not working he went on vacation and posted a picture lol. Sorry to inform you but prior to 2015, Marner has nothing to do with the failure of this hockey club. By your standards, unless you win the Cup this year , no players are allowed to go on vacation or have a life and should feel shame until the next season.

News flash, anyone can travel during the pandemic, you can book yourself a trip if you please. Wouldn't surprise me if he was fully vaccinated much like the MTL Canadians.

 

[Torontonian]

I agree with you when it comes to his needs. The question is, does he know he needs to work on his shot? After all this time, why hasn't his shot improved at all. I think he also needs to work on his skating as well and learn to be stronger on his skates. Too often he's flailing on the ice of his own doing or of the oppostion player.

As for the vacation, I don't agree with you. The optics of posting a pic on vacation, while the playoffs are still on, and the team that embarassed you is winning, are not good. If you're going to go on vacation at this time, lay low. But then again, he's an arrogant little cuss.

I would like to assume the Leafs have a skills coach that can work on his shooting with him, perhaps the Leafs have identified other parts of his game that need improvement over his shot.

That's a good point, strength in his lower body is in need of addressing. He does kinda remind me of a peewee player always on the ice. There's no denying when Marner is on though he's a good player, the problem we are having with him is ,he nor our star players have dominated a series yet.

 

[Notsince67]

He went big stretches being bad his entire career. People just don't remember it.

A streaky winger regular season darling that can't score. 8 AAV x 8 tops. I saw his contract as an anchor a mile away. I would never have let him sign that as his father or GM. I would have traded him.

We get it already. How many more times you want to say the same thing?

 

[Notsince67]

Then you run the question of what happens if Marner fails again? Is that Dubas' fault because he did not move him or do anything? Heck you can replace Dubas and keep Marner. What happens if Marner fails at that point?

At the very least the Leafs need to change how they use him and who they use him with. It is clear he can't drive a line, but he can make the drivers look better when he is on.

He cant drive a line eh?
He forced Matthew's to shoot 3%

 

[KuleminFan41]

You think bridging Marner would result in more money ?

No.

NOT TO MENTION:
I dont mind paying for performance.

Yes, I believe its very possible. He got 94 points the season before he signed his deal and hasn't looked back since. He finished 4th in total points scored this season, you don't think that would be a bargaining chip? While I don't enjoy the "on pace" for argument, he has been on pace for over 90 points in 3 straight seasons. Marner's 11th in points since signing his contract(Matthews is 7th in points and 1st in goals), and thats with playing at least 10 fewer games than most of the players above him and has a good cushion on the players behind him. We can't ignore all of that, because he flopped in the playoffs.

NHL Player Stats in Last 2 Seasons

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Marner's 11th in points since signing his contract

What's the AAV and term for wingers on RFA contracts for that ?

It's lower than 10.6

By the end of the bridge deal, he'll be even lower.

At some point you have to factor in playoff performance if that is your goal.

If Marner won't take my contract I trade him.

 

[killer1980]

So because he's in a profession where he is the in the top 1% of the world at his job and makes more money then average Joe he can't live his life? I am just as passionate Leaf fan as every one on this forum and would love nothing more seeing them win the cup, but I don't agree with shitting on a person because when hes not working he went on vacation and posted a picture lol. Sorry to inform you but prior to 2015, Marner has nothing to do with the failure of this hockey club. By your standards, unless you win the Cup this year , no players are allowed to go on vacation or have a life and should feel shame until the next season.

News flash, anyone can travel during the pandemic, you can book yourself a trip if you please. Wouldn't surprise me if he was fully vaccinated much like the MTL Canadians.

Sorry, but I never said he had to win the Cup. I said he didn't care when he got eliminated by the 18th placed team in the league. At his post season presser, he was more concerned about saying how great they were than admitted he sucks in the playoffs and he had no problem pissing on the fans. As for the travel, I just wondered if he would be treated like the rest of us, i.e. paying $3000 to be locked in a government mandated hotel and quarantining for 14 days. As of today, 2 vaccinations don't mean a thing. The new rules don't kick in for almost 3 weeks.

He thinks he's terrific and needs no improvement. Since he is an entertainer, I am allowed to tell him I disagree and he is allowed to ignored it.

 

[KuleminFan41]

What's the AAV and term for wingers on RFA contracts for that ?

It's lower than 10.6

By the end of the bridge deal, he'll be even lower.

At some point you have to factor in playoff performance if that is your goal.

If Marner won't take my contract I trade him.

Well, on that list you got Draisaitl at 8.5 for 8 , Marchand at 6.1 for 8 years , Pastranak at 6.6 for 6 years, and Kane at 10.5 for 8 years(had 5 years at 6.3) . All these deals were signed years before Marner's contract was signed as well with the cap increasing every year(at least 6 million). The average is cap hit is 7.85 for their current deals. The average term coming off their ELC is 3.25 years while the average term for their current deals is 7.5 years, which is 1.5 more than Marner currently. Draisaitl and Pastrnak didn't bridge, Marchand had 2 other contracts, and Kane had a 5 year deal as I mentioned earlier.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

He cant drive a line eh?
He forced Matthew's to shoot 3%

yes, Marner's inability to be a scoring threat enabled Montreal to build their defensive scheme around trying to limit Matthews from scoring. What forced Marner to shoot 0%?

 

[Dreakmur]

The thing is, if you sign Marner and Matthews to 3 year bridge deals , the likelihood of their caphit being even greater is a strong possibility. Especially seeing as they put up a ton of points and contracts are based off the season, not the playoffs. I think people tend to forget, a lot of players signed 5 year deals like Toews, Kane, Crosby, Stamkos , Marchand, Malkin , Bergeron etc etc . Hell, Bergeron signed a 3 year, then a 5 year, then 8 a year deal. Yes, those are old deals signed with a lower cap hit, but this isn't new. Does that mean they aren't expensive contracts? Of course not, but one of the biggest reasons these deals look worse today, is because of the cap not moving. Some were suggesting at least a 10 million bump in cap and potentially reaching 15 or more. Not to say that Dubas did a great job or a bad job, but no one really could foresee the pandemic

Contracts are based on whatever each side wants to base them on. I'm sure Marner would love to try to negotiate an upcoming contract by ignoring his play-off results, but no intelligent GM is going to do that.

Lowering the price is only one reason you do a bridge contract. Probably the more important reason is that you get to learn more about what you're really signing up for. If Marner spend all three seasons of his bridge deal piling up points in the play-offs, I would gladly give him "more money".

 

[SeaOfBlue]

yes, Marner's inability to be a scoring threat enabled Montreal to build their defensive scheme around trying to limit Matthews from scoring. What forced Marner to shoot 0%?

Pretty much the problem.

In Marner's defense, Price made a few 10 bell saves on Marner. Marner's shot still sucks though.

This is why I don't understand why people are blaming Matthews. He did his job to the best of his abilities, but it is kind of hard (for literally anyone in the league) when nobody else is a threat and you are targeted by 2 or 3 guys all of the time.

 

[93LEAFS]

Pretty much the problem.

In Marner's defense, Price made a few 10 bell saves on Marner. Marner's shot still sucks though.

This is why I don't understand why people are blaming Matthews. He did his job to the best of his abilities, but it is kind of hard (for literally anyone in the league) when nobody else is a threat and you are targeted by 2 or 3 guys all of the time.

He has arguably the best contract in the league and he scored 1 goal in 7 games, when he is paid that to score goals. He absolutely deserves some of the blame. You don't get to blame linemates or situation with that paycheck.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

In Marner's defense, Price made a few 10 bell saves on Marner. Marner's shot still sucks though.

Every goalie in the playoffs is when Marner is shooting. Year after year

 

[Dreakmur]

I'm still not even sure how many teams would want Marner, has the cap space to add him, and has the assets to make a good trade.


Anaheim - I'm not sure what they could offer. Hampus Lindholm would be a nice add, but he's a UFA after next season. Rickard Rakell would also be good, but he too is a UFA atfer next season. I'd love to add Max Comtois. Max Jones would be a good add too. I also wouln't mind gambling on Haydn Fleury. Their only prospect I like is Benoit-Olivier Groulx.

Arizona - They have some decent pieces to offer, though they have so few draft picks to add in. Conor Garland, Jakob Chychrun, and Lawson Crouse.

Buffalo - Jack Eichel and Rasmus Dahlin. Maybe Henri Jokiharju

Columbus - Depends entirely on how much you like Seth Jones. The other parts are Boone Jenner, Joonas Korpisalo

Los Angeles - Lots of prospects and young guys to pile up - Adrian Kempe, Gabe Vilardi, Akil Thomas, Alex Turcotte.

New Jersey - Probably can't come up with a good enough package. They'd have to pile up a lot of mediocre pieces. Miles Wood, Pavel Zacha, Damon Severson.

Philadelphia - They've got a lot of pieces I like. Ivan Provorov, Travis Konecny, Wade Allison, Nolan Patrick, maybe Philippe Myers or Claude Giroux.


I'm having trouble coming up with packages that work for both sides....

 

[Racer88]

I would like to assume the Leafs have a skills coach that can work on his shooting with him, perhaps the Leafs have identified other parts of his game that need improvement over his shot.

That's a good point, strength in his lower body is in need of addressing. He does kinda remind me of a peewee player always on the ice. There's no denying when Marner is on though he's a good player, the problem we are having with him is ,he nor our star players have dominated a series yet.

All great thoughts but Marner himself said he wasn’t going to do anything different to prepare for next year. We can expect the same out of him

 

[HamiltonNHL]

What forced Marner to shoot 0%?

His mental breakdown.

He couldn't pass, stick handle, or shoot

 

[Martin Skoula]

All great thoughts but Marner himself said he wasn’t going to do anything different to prepare for next year. We can expect the same out of him

He spent all of last offseason working on his shot and "shooting mentality", his shot got 5% better but his confidence in using it in bad spots went 95% up. At this rate he'll be shooting more than Ovi soon.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Brayden Point signing for 6.75M within days of Marner is just ridiculous. I don't care what the excuses are around taxes, Babcock being mean, signing bonus shenanigans with Lou, not being considered as a candidate for captain, offersheets etc.

Great example. Rantanen is another example.

Dubas just caved to his Marlies buddy

 

[81Leafs50]

Good golly dude. We are talking about a 40ish point gap between the two players. Give it a rest. I don't think you even understand what driving a line is.

Marner sucks. Years of ZERO playoffs production is proof. Nylander however with NO Tavares and many different C's still scored goals. Marners regulars season stats are all fluff and no substance.

YOU GIVE IT A REST DUDE!

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Marner sucks.

There is just less time and space in the playoffs.
His fancy pass opportunities go down dramatically in the postseason.
And his ECHL shot just doesnt work.

It's not his fault, it's the other players that are playing tougher. It's their fault.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Contracts are based on whatever each side wants to base them on. I'm sure Marner would love to try to negotiate an upcoming contract by ignoring his play-off results, but no intelligent GM is going to do that.

Lowering the price is only one reason you do a bridge contract. Probably the more important reason is that you get to learn more about what you're really signing up for. If Marner spend all three seasons of his bridge deal piling up points in the play-offs, I would gladly give him "more money".

A bridge deal can go 1 of 2 ways, either increases a players value, or decreases. If Marner got a 2-3 year bridge deal, he likely gets the same as Nylander who is making 7 million, if not more because he puts up a lot more points. So if he were to negotiate a contract this summer, he likely gets at least 9 million anyway and we're still at basically the same place we are today. No one bases their contracts off the playoffs, an 82 game period is a far greater sample size of how good a player is, instead of 7 games.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I cant believe Mitch's cap hit is more than Stamkos and Kucherov.

Absolute trash.

 

[cannucky]

I'm still not even sure how many teams would want Marner, has the cap space to add him, and has the assets to make a good trade.


Anaheim - I'm not sure what they could offer. Hampus Lindholm would be a nice add, but he's a UFA after next season. Rickard Rakell would also be good, but he too is a UFA atfer next season. I'd love to add Max Comtois. Max Jones would be a good add too. I also wouln't mind gambling on Haydn Fleury. Their only prospect I like is Benoit-Olivier Groulx.

Arizona - They have some decent pieces to offer, though they have so few draft picks to add in. Conor Garland, Jakob Chychrun, and Lawson Crouse.
Buffalo - Jack Eichel and Rasmus Dahlin. Maybe Henri Jokiharju

Columbus - Depends entirely on how much you like Seth Jones. The other parts are Boone Jenner, Joonas Korpisalo

Los Angeles - Lots of prospects and young guys to pile up - Adrian Kempe, Gabe Vilardi, Akil Thomas, Alex Turcotte.

New Jersey - Probably can't come up with a good enough package. They'd have to pile up a lot of mediocre pieces. Miles Wood, Pavel Zacha, Damon Severson.

Philadelphia - They've got a lot of pieces I like. Ivan Provorov, Travis Konecny, Wade Allison, Nolan Patrick, maybe Philippe Myers or Claude Giroux.


I'm having trouble coming up with packages that work for both sides....

Finally someone who gets it , Marner can't be moved so now which of the double digit three can be moved ? Only Mathews and then only by publicly announcing the desire to trade him to Arizona which would force the Coyotes to deal and we could extort a good price that way .

 

[HolyCrap]

His mental breakdown.

He couldn't pass, stick handle, or shoot

He was pretty good at flipping the puck over the boards. He could delay the game with the best of them.