Mitch Marner discussion

[Gary Nylund]

One thing, it isn’t just the takeaways, which he now routinely is near or tops in the league, it’s the disruption too. For every takeaway, there’s a bunch of tip of puck tips, a player forced to correct, he’s just a pest, disrupting the flow of the other team. It’s really a treat to watch and I’ll guaranteed other coaches really appreciate this about him when they watch tape.

Very true. He's a special player and if he had just not taken that dumb penalty, had just a few more points in the last few playoffs and had 2 million less of a cap hit, he'd be literally 50 times more popular than he is today. This can easily be fixed though, fans in this town are so starved for playoff success that all it would take is him producing at an elite level for one deep playoff run and he'll be the toast of the town, guaranteed. Let's hope that 6 months from now, this has all happened.

 

[frizzer1]

One thing, it isn’t just the takeaways, which he now routinely is near or tops in the league, it’s the disruption too. For every takeaway, there’s a bunch of tip of puck tips, a player forced to correct, he’s just a pest, disrupting the flow of the other team. It’s really a treat to watch and I’ll guaranteed other coaches really appreciate this about him when they watch tape.

This!!
He is so underrated on this board.
Sure, based in the current cap he should be making about 9 mil.
But Marner/Matthews are the 2 irreplaceable players on this team.
Nylander is outstanding but could be traded .
Tavares can’t be moved due to his contract but should be making about 6?Mil.
He’s having a fine year but has been getting some phantom assists and I don’t think his numbers are sustainable.
JMO.

 

[ACC1224]

One thing, it isn’t just the takeaways, which he now routinely is near or tops in the league, it’s the disruption too. For every takeaway, there’s a bunch of puck tips, a player forced to correct, he’s just a pest, disrupting the flow of the other team. It’s really a treat to watch and I’ll guaranteed other coaches really appreciate this about him when they watch tape.

Yep he definitely has one of the leagues best motors

 

[Jojalu]

I just wish he had another gear like Kane did in the playoffs during the Chicago mini-dynasty.

So Kane who is well above PPG in the regular season is below a PPG in the playoffs.

He had one fantastic playoff run where his team won where Marner had an incredible year where the Leafs lost in the first round.

PPG in playoff career Marner and Kane are pretty close. Marner still PK's and plays a good two way game in the playoffs, he just can't score.

 

[Racer88]

I wondered about who added the poll?

"Your Honour, the client said he had never broken the law, so that opened the door to our question about whether he has ever had a speeding ticket."

The poll and "appreciation thread" title are incongruous.

But, we cannot let this thread be derailed.

So let's suggest any non-appreciation comments are restricted to the vote, and not let this become another tiring, "My dad can beat up your dad!"

Sure thing

 

[Racer88]

I did.
It allows those that are courteous enough to not spoil the sentiment of the thread to still let their feelings be known.

Fair enough but it just seems weird to me

 

[Nylanderthal]

Why isn’t “Overpayed by 2 to 5 million dollars?” an option?

You think a guy who’s put up 94 points and 100point pace in a Covid season should be paid less than $6m? Listen, I get we all wish the kids signed team friendly under market deals, but this is just ridiculous.
If Mitch signed 6/7 x $10m and Matty got 5/6 x $11m not one person would make a peep about anyone being “overpaid”

 

[Notsince67]

I think the leafs could have done better than the current 2 wins in 5 games since Marner was injured. The powerplay output is unsustainable in the long run. If the team doesnt tighten up 5x5, it will get ugly before he returns. He does mask the weaknesses in the lineup though. This might be a good opportunity to cull the liabilities.

 

[ponder]

He’s overpaid by $1-2 mil, but still an absolute star, and one of our best players. We miss him a lot, and have been a very significantly worse team without him. Looking forward to getting Mitch back!

 

[Antropovsky]

I think the leafs could have done better than the current 2 wins in 5 games since Marner was injured. The powerplay output is unsustainable in the long run. If the team doesnt tighten up 5x5, it will get ugly before he returns. He does mask the weaknesses in the lineup though. This might be a good opportunity to cull the liabilities.

Remove 11 million from any team and most will drop a bit. Nobody says we are a better team without him, if their was a question to be asked it would be .... "would" 11 million be better spent elsewhere. You are also ignoring Spezza and Sandin being out - and their replacements both making their NHL debuts, one of them played college hockey last year and both were undrafted.

Marner now is the only member of our top 4 offensive guys under a ppg. meanwhile Connor and Aho are leading there next roster player by like 9 and 12 points and have scored 15 and 18 goals compared to Marners 6. They make 3.8 and 2.5 ish less than Marner. Its pretty crazy that an 11 million dollar player isnt producing a ppg with Matthews and hadnt scored a pp goal in like 1.25 seasons worth of games...oh and hasnt scored a post season goal in 18 games.

Not ashamed to say Id be happy to move him for a good return. AND id be ecstatic if he proved me wrong.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

so can we talk about his long term injured reserve status here? Why would they do that if his injury was not that serious?

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

so can we talk about his long term injured reserve status here? Why would they do that if his injury was not that serious?

Cap relief.

 

[Jmo89]

Very true. He's a special player and if he had just not taken that dumb penalty, had just a few more points in the last few playoffs and had 2 million less of a cap hit, he'd be literally 50 times more popular than he is today. This can easily be fixed though, fans in this town are so starved for playoff success that all it would take is him producing at an elite level for one deep playoff run and he'll be the toast of the town, guaranteed. Let's hope that 6 months from now, this has all happened.

My frustration with Marner since the Montreal debacle has been very high, but your right. Not even his contract will matter if he does something meaningful in the playoffs.

 

[Notsince67]

Matthews before Marners injury 5x5
Xgf% 64.75
Matthews after Marner injury 5x5
Xgf% 57.44
This doesnt even account for the spillover of drawing less QoC and sheltering other lines less. It doesnt account for the Pk deterioration.
As for the PP, leafs are running hot now but will deteriorate just like the oilers have. You cant rely on your pp to win game after game.
The kid is a beauty. One of the best players in the world. Well liked by his team mates.
2 wins in 5 games is disastrous after their streak and it could be worse. Team needs him back.
f*** Muzzin

 

[Racer88]

Remove 11 million from any team and most will drop a bit. Nobody says we are a better team without him, if their was a question to be asked it would be .... "would" 11 million be better spent elsewhere. You are also ignoring Spezza and Sandin being out - and their replacements both making their NHL debuts, one of them played college hockey last year and both were undrafted.

Marner now is the only member of our top 4 offensive guys under a ppg. meanwhile Connor and Aho are leading there next roster player by like 9 and 12 points and have scored 15 and 18 goals compared to Marners 6. They make 3.8 and 2.5 ish less than Marner. Its pretty crazy that an 11 million dollar player isnt producing a ppg with Matthews and hadnt scored a pp goal in like 1.25 seasons worth of games...oh and hasnt scored a post season goal in 18 games.

Not ashamed to say Id be happy to move him for a good return. AND id be ecstatic if he proved me wrong.

Truth…….

 

[TMLAM34]

Matthews before Marners injury 5x5
Xgf% 64.75
Matthews after Marner injury 5x5
Xgf% 57.44
This doesnt even account for the spillover of drawing less QoC and sheltering other lines less. It doesnt account for the Pk deterioration.
As for the PP, leafs are running hot now but will deteriorate just like the oilers have. You cant rely on your pp to win game after game.
The kid is a beauty. One of the best players in the world. Well liked by his team mates.
2 wins in 5 games is disastrous after their streak and it could be worse. Team needs him back.
f*** Muzzin

I feel like any team that has 11 million dollars on the IR will feel some effect from it.

 

[Notsince67]

I feel like any team that has 11 million dollars on the IR will feel some effect from it.

Pretty specious statement. 3 loses in 5 games? Bit of an understatement. What would you consider bad?...5 loses out of 5? Tampa had 18mm+ of injuries. They beat us.

 

[Antropovsky]

Pretty specious statement. 3 loses in 5 games? Bit of an understatement. What would you consider bad?...5 loses out of 5? Tampa had 18mm+ of injuries. They beat us.

ill remind you that we had a streak from Oct 18-25 where we lost four consecutive games to the Rangers, Sharks, Penguins and Hurricanes WITH the all and mighty Marner in the lineup. Guess how many points 11 million dollar star player Mitch Marner put up? A big fat 0.

We are 2-2-1 without him. We are ALSO missing Spezza, Dermott and Sandin and just got our backup back. We lost to the 6th best team, 7th best team and Winnipeg Jets which was the 2nd game of a back to back and Woll played.

 

[Notsince67]

ill remind you that we had a streak from Oct 18-25 where we lost four consecutive games to the Rangers, Sharks, Penguins and Hurricanes WITH the all and mighty Marner in the lineup. Guess how many points 11 million dollar star player Mitch Marner put up? A big fat 0.

We are 2-2-1 without him. We are ALSO missing Spezza, Dermott and Sandin and just got our backup back. We lost to the 6th best team, 7th best team and Winnipeg Jets which was the 2nd game of a back to back and Woll played.

Ha...what a load. That span was highlighted by atrocious defense. In all situations...including PK which marner plays a lot of, here were the on-ice goals against/60 for the forward group

Player	GA/60
Michael Bunting	6.1
John Tavares	5.93
Alex Kerfoot	5.18
Jason Spezza	4.76
Pierre Engvall	4.5
David Kampf	4.35
William Nylander	3.85
Auston Matthews	3.58
Nick Ritchie	3.58
Mitch Marner	2.78

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Beyonder91]

Remove 11 million from any team and most will drop a bit. Nobody says we are a better team without him, if their was a question to be asked it would be .... "would" 11 million be better spent elsewhere. You are also ignoring Spezza and Sandin being out - and their replacements both making their NHL debuts, one of them played college hockey last year and both were undrafted.

Marner now is the only member of our top 4 offensive guys under a ppg. meanwhile Connor and Aho are leading there next roster player by like 9 and 12 points and have scored 15 and 18 goals compared to Marners 6. They make 3.8 and 2.5 ish less than Marner. Its pretty crazy that an 11 million dollar player isnt producing a ppg with Matthews and hadnt scored a pp goal in like 1.25 seasons worth of games...oh and hasnt scored a post season goal in 18 games.

Not ashamed to say Id be happy to move him for a good return. AND id be ecstatic if he proved me wrong.

Wow. So let's take a 24 game sample and ignore the fact that Marner is a CAREER ppg player. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you post ridiculous stuff like this?

And yeah we know you'd love to move him. All you do is post about how you don't like him. Thanks for another update though!

 

[Notsince67]

Arrow indicates Marners last game and effect on 5 game rolling average.

 

[Antropovsky]

Wow. So let's take a 24 game sample and ignore the fact that Marner is a CAREER ppg player. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you post ridiculous stuff like this?

And yeah we know you'd love to move him. All you do is post about how you don't like him. Thanks for another update though!

uhhh ok... @Notsince67 has been continually posting in every gameday thread how this team cant win without Marner. He is the one that wont let this topic die... if he wants to continually spark this topic back up and REMIND everyone on his stance then why cant I? is it because you like Marner so him doing exactly what your accusing me of doing is ok? Seems a bit hypocritical to go around into threads getting mad at people for having a different opinion then you have. Like i said... if its the constant repeat of ones of opinion that angers you, show me your angry responses to @Notsince67. if you cant then I dont think anyone should take you seriously....

also why did you bold only one of my "listed" things that concern me about Marner? You took one point and attacked only it, ignorning the rest of the list. You cant dismember someones list and attack just one item... of course it wont make sense. If I only had one item of concern maybe i would feel differently, however i have a list.

If Marner was just having a slow start... fine... but it still doesnt explain him not scoring a powerplay goal for nearly one season and a half consecutive games.... it doesnt explain 18 postseason games (spanning 3 series) of not scoring a goal, it doesnt explain 2 seasons of "not good enough" postseason performances.....

Now... for me to take "you" seriously kindly explain why im ridiculous to care about the rest of my list of concerns which i have repeatedly listed over and over (as you know) about Marner.

 

[Beyonder91]

uhhh ok... @Notsince67 has been continually posting in every gameday thread how this team cant win without Marner. He is the one that wont let this topic die... if he wants to continually spark this topic back up and REMIND everyone on his stance then why cant I? is it because you like Marner so him doing exactly what your accusing me of doing is ok? Seems a bit hypocritical to go around into threads getting mad at people for having a different opinion then you have. Like i said... if its the constant repeat of ones of opinion that angers you, show me your angry responses to @Notsince67. if you cant then I dont think anyone should take you seriously....

also why did you bold only one of my "listed" things that concern me about Marner? You took one point and attacked only it, ignorning the rest of the list. You cant dismember someones list and attack just one item... of course it wont make sense. If I only had one item of concern maybe i would feel differently, however i have a list.

If Marner was just having a slow start... fine... but it still doesnt explain him not scoring a powerplay goal for nearly one season and a half consecutive games.... it doesnt explain 18 postseason games (spanning 3 series) of not scoring a goal, it doesnt explain 2 seasons of "not good enough" postseason performances.....

Now... for me to take "you" kindly explain why im ridiculous to care about the rest of my list of concerns which i have repeatedly listed over and over (as you know) about Marner.

Apologies... I've been trying not to engage with people who have an obvious agenda but your point was so incredibly ridiculous (no exaggeration here) I had to specifically respond to it.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Wow. So let's take a 24 game sample and ignore the fact that Marner is a CAREER ppg player.

But if we don't cherry pick exclusively certain types of production in specifically chosen small samples, and ignore everything else, then how are we supposed to pretend Marner bad?

 

[Antropovsky]

But if we don't cherry pick exclusively certain types of production in specifically chosen small samples, and ignore everything else, then how are we supposed to pretend Marner bad?

.... not scoring a goal in 18 consecutive playoff games is a small sample size? Its one gsme short of the last three full series!

.....not producing q powerplay goal in like 120 games is a small sample size? its nearly 1.5 seasons without a powerplay goal?

please quantify the right sample size for me.

1) Can the supporters indicate why there not upset with his last three post season series?

2) Can they indicate why they arent upset with his powerplay scoring drought?

3) Can they explain why they dont care that he hasnt scored in 18 consecutive playoff games?

4) Can they quantify what they expect from him offensively?

5) Can they quantify what they expect from him in the postseason.

6) what will there feelings be if Marner has another post seaspn like the last two. Would this change your opinion on him?

Id like to see what people expect from him... certainly it has to be more than a 18 game scoring drought in the playoffs, and more than a powerplay goal every year and a half and is a point per game enough when hes playing with a top player in the game and a stacked powerplay?

questions I really look forward to having @Notsince67 @Dekes For Days and @Beyonder91 respond to and whomever else wants else of course. I am very open to my mind being changed....