Mitch Marner discussion

[Antropovsky]

When puck tracking stats finally become publicly available, it will be an eye opener for many who don't notice how much time the puck is on the stick of that boy.

Whats your thoughts on sportsnets Berkshire saying Marner was one of the most overrated players in 2019.... he said because Marner is a playmaker he looks at scoring chance generating plays to access him (how often a player generates scoring chances for their teammates)... (Mcdavid and Crosby were 1 and 2) Matthews was 3rd, Tavares 12, Nylander 22 and Marner 26th...this was in Marners best season! When you look at things since this video (2019)... it certainly looks pretty accurate, he is a playmaker with a poor shot making 11 million, so would you not expect him to be generating ALOT of opportunities for teammates?

Is Mitch Marner the most overrated player in the NHL? | Sportsnet Video | Maple Leafs Aggregator

 

[Notsince67]

Whats your thoughts on sportsnets Berkshire saying Marner was one of the most overrated players in 2019.... he said because Marner is a playmaker he looks at scoring chance generating plays to access him (how often a player generates scoring chances for their teammates)... (Mcdavid and Crosby were 1 and 2) Matthews was 3rd, Tavares 12, Nylander 22 and Marner 26th...this was in Marners best season! When you look at things since this video (2019)... it certainly looks pretty accurate, he is a playmaker with a poor shot making 11 million, so would you not expect him to be generating ALOT of opportunities for teammates?

Is Mitch Marner the most overrated player in the NHL? | Sportsnet Video | Maple Leafs Aggregator

He failed in a fundamental way in his analysis and data. His very definition of high danger shot excluded the most dangerous pass there is. The royal road...one that Marner makes again and again. He seems to have stopped peddling his proprietary data as his analysis went nowhere. Just a hot take artist.

 

[francis246]

If Toronto doesn't get past the 2nd round one of Matthews, Nylander or Marner need to be traded in the off season

what happens if they don’t get past the 2nd round? To me it doesn’t make any sense that logic.

 

[crowsnestmcgee]

Put mitch on second unit

 

[lipstickjunkie]

Anybody have an injury update? It's been a couple weeks now, no?

 

[Antropovsky]

He failed in a fundamental way in his analysis and data. His very definition of high danger shot excluded the most dangerous pass there is. The royal road...one that Marner makes again and again. He seems to have stopped peddling his proprietary data as his analysis went nowhere. Just a hot take artist.

i dont look at enough analytics... so in 2019 Marner had very high royal road percentages buy was 26th in scoring chances created? Isnt 26th a pretty low spot considering Crosby, Mcdavid and Matthews were 1-2-3? Especially considering Marners best attribute is supposed to be his playmaking while the others have better goal scoring abilities then him? Everyone keeps saying quit judging Marner on goals... well in scoring chance creation for teammates he was only 26.

can you explain better? Id rather have a more thorough explanation of why he is wrong. I mean why should i believe you over him? especially considering he provides his evidence and you dont.

 

[Confucius]

Anybody have an injury update? It's been a couple weeks now, no?

In the video you can see he walked pretty quickly as he was leaving and was swinging his arms, so I think it wasn't a leg or arm injury.

 

[Notsince67]

i dont look at enough analytics... so in 2019 Marner had very high royal road percentages buy was 26th in scoring chances created? Isnt 26th a pretty low spot considering Crosby, Mcdavid and Matthews were 1-2-3? Especially considering Marners best attribute is supposed to be his playmaking while the others have better goal scoring abilities then him? Everyone keeps saying quit judging Marner on goals... well in scoring chance creation for teammates he was only 26.

can you explain better? Id rather have a more thorough explanation of why he is wrong. I mean why should i believe you over him? especially considering he provides his evidence and you dont.

His definition of scoring chances were slot passes and completely left out royal road passes

 

[Farsailor]

If Toronto doesn't get past the 2nd round one of Matthews, Nylander or Marner need to be traded in the off season

I hope the three of them remain leafs their entire carreers.

 

[ACC1224]

In the video you can see he walked pretty quickly as he was leaving and was swinging his arms, so I think it wasn't a leg or arm injury.

Shoulder I believe. He was hurt to start the season, I believe this is an aggravation of that.

 

[Confucius]

I hope the three of them remain leafs their entire carreers.

Agreed I'd take my chances and swim or sink with the three of them. Currently I think we are swimming rather well.

 

[Notsince67]

Shoulder I believe. He was hurt to start the season, I believe this is an aggravation of that.

Hadn't heard that he had an injury. Was that caused by the Sandin hit to the boards?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Agreed I'd take my chances and swim or sink with the three of them. Currently I think we are swimming rather well.

They'll probably break through in the playoffs eventually but I'm not quite ready to commit to all of them until the end of time. More prudent to evaluate all the players individually and the team as a whole on an ongoing basis, and a major evaluation at the end of every season.

 

[ACC1224]

Hadn't heard that he had an injury. Was that caused by the Sandin hit to the boards?

No idea how it happened. Just told it was a tough start to the season with Matthews out and Mitch being hurt.

 

[Antropovsky]

His definition of scoring chances were slot passes and completely left out royal road passes

so slot passes are the only scoring chance generating play measured? no other tracked pass by his research? what was Marbers royal road stats conpared to rhe rest of the leagur that year?

 

[Notsince67]

so slot passes are the only scoring chance generating play measured? no other tracked pass by his research? what was Marbers royal road stats conpared to rhe rest of the leagur that year?

They are proprietary stats. Saw the data a few times but they were manually tracked. Will go the ways of the dinosaur with the tracking happening now. Unfortunately, its not in the public domain. My guess the reason is the movement into gambling and increasing media contracts. They have already announced media deals with access to to new data technologies. There are all kinds of data scientists combing through the data and building models for whoever the NHL gives access. They most certainly don't want regular joes getting their hands on the rich data and building models before the bookies get a head start properly handicapping their bets or before the cable companies can offer up a richer experience. There seems to be a ton of currency in this information or it would be out already
My bet is that it is a game changer.

 

[Antropovsky]

They are proprietary stats. Saw the data a few times but they were manually tracked. Will go the ways of the dinosaur with the tracking happening now. Unfortunately, its not in the public domain. My guess the reason is the movement into gambling and increasing media contracts. They have already announced media deals with access to to new data technologies. There are all kinds of data scientists combing through the data and building models for whoever the NHL gives access. They most certainly don't want regular joes getting their hands on the rich data and building models before the bookies get a head start properly handicapping their bets or before the cable companies can offer up a richer experience. There seems to be a ton of currency in this information or it would be out already
My bet is that it is a game changer.

so you have no proof Berkshire id incorrect you have a hunch that he is though? correct?

 

[Notsince67]

so you have no proof Berkshire id incorrect you have a hunch that he is though? correct?

I went through his definition of high danger passing at the time and listened to him on radio. I know it for a fact. Never addressed royal road or behind the net at all.
He isnt even peddling his advanced stats anymore. You seem overly excited for a rabid habs fan who can only get interviews with Adam Wylde these days.


here is something that I posted a while ago. Chew on it
Tavares - can he eclipse last season?
Tavares - can he eclipse last season?

 

[Antropovsky]

I went through his definition of high danger passing at the time and listened to him on radio. I know it for a fact. Never addressed royal road or behind the net at all.
He isnt even peddling his advanced stats anymore. You seem overly excited for a rabid habs fan who can only get interviews with Adam Wylde these days.


here is something that I posted a while ago. Chew on it
Tavares - can he eclipse last season?
Tavares - can he eclipse last season?

Berkshire seems to define high danger passes as a pass to the slot. In my opinion, royal road passes and behind the net passes are by far more precise to way to define a high danger pass. It is actually interesting because if you look at the bruins success with their big line, they have everyone doing this in a plentiful way. The leafs, short of Marner are deficient in these types of passes. In fact every great center sits in the same quadrant in the nhl but Tavares and Matthews dont. Might explain why Marner, among others dont get a lot of goals. From a play making perspective, the chart says a lot about people claiming superior playmaking skills compared to Marner of our two #1 centers.

sSo Berkshire should have a reason to pump up Matthews, Tavares and Nylander but not Marner? Berkshire scoring chance creating plays indicate Matthews was #3 and Tavares was #12. McDavid and Crosby were #1 and #2 (Marner 26). How can you say Matthews and Tavares are the reason for Marners lack of goals when his centers are #3 and 12 in this category? Also curious to see where Tavares and Mstthews ranks on goal scoring categories. Seems Matthews would be high in both creating of scoring chances and goal scoring categories...is there a much better combination for Marner? Matthews is one of the best goal scorers and im pretty sure hes a betyer playmaker than Ovechkin.

 

[Notsince67]

sSo Berkshire should have a reason to pump up Matthews, Tavares and Nylander but not Marner? Berkshire scoring chance creating plays indicate Matthews was #3 and Tavares was #12. McDavid and Crosby were #1 and #2 (Marner 26). How can you say Matthews and Tavares are the reason for Marners lack of goals when his centers are #3 and 12 in this category? Also curious to see where Tavares and Mstthews ranks on goal scoring categories. Seems Matthews would be high in both creating of scoring chances and goal scoring categories...is there a much better combination for Marner? Matthews is one of the best goal scorers and im pretty sure hes a betyer playmaker than Ovechkin.

I have no clue what you are on about. You are citing Berkshire as an authority and I have already explained why he isn't He made a basic mistake and I wouldn't trust his data either. If it were any good, he would have reproduced it for a subsequent year.
I did my homework long ago. I suggest you do it too and start using sources that pass the smell test.

 

[Antropovsky]

I have no clue what you are on about. You are citing Berkshire as an authority and I have already explained why he isn't He made a basic mistake and I wouldn't trust his data either. If it were any good, he would have reproduced it for a subsequent year.
I did my homework long ago. I suggest you do it too and start using sources that pass the smell test.

you have done your homework? Where is it then? In your previous post you linked your sentence is "Berkshire seems to have used passes to the slot"

do you have conclusive evidence? or just throwing out guesses and hoping it sticks?

im not doubting iy may be true but its odd you have done your homework but have no good explanation for why it Berkshires stats arent accurate.

 

[Notsince67]

you have done your homework? Where is it then? In your previous post you linked your sentence is "Berkshire seems to have used passes to the slot"

do you have conclusive evidence? or just throwing out guesses and hoping it sticks?

im not doubting iy may be true but its odd you have done your homework but have no good explanation for why it Berkshires stats arent accurate.

It's old news bud. I posted on this years ago. You cite one ridiculous article you recently found that made the rounds already from a nobody. I read and commented on it when it came out. I posted a chart back then when his claims were easily available in lots of media. The chart is damning against what he claimed. If this is all you got to slam Marner, you actually look ridiculous. This amounts to petty anklebiting. Now stop bothering me. I've been more than patient with you and gave you a polite explanation. I didnt even rub it in that I basically slapped your assertion into the toilet. I would have thought that you would save some face and walk away from this because this dog wont hunt.

 

[DarkKnight]

i dont look at enough analytics... so in 2019 Marner had very high royal road percentages buy was 26th in scoring chances created? Isnt 26th a pretty low spot considering Crosby, Mcdavid and Matthews were 1-2-3? Especially considering Marners best attribute is supposed to be his playmaking while the others have better goal scoring abilities then him? Everyone keeps saying quit judging Marner on goals... well in scoring chance creation for teammates he was only 26.

can you explain better? Id rather have a more thorough explanation of why he is wrong. I mean why should i believe you over him? especially considering he provides his evidence and you dont.

Also in 2019, from some nobody…

“Tampa Bay Lightning coach Jon Cooper has high praise for Mitch Marner. Cooper says Marner is not only one of the smartest players in the game today but one of the smartest players of all-time”

Give it up.

 

[Antropovsky]

Also in 2019, from some nobody…

“Tampa Bay Lightning coach Jon Cooper has high praise for Mitch Marner. Cooper says Marner is not only one of the smartest players in the game today but one of the smartest players of all-time”

Give it up.

Well at least your appealing to ethos with your persuasive appeal... by using Jon Cooper. I mean it beats @Notsince67 not using any of the three persuasive appeals and just saying "hey Berkshire knows nothing, just take my word for it - Because I know everything!" I really appreciate how you think it's ok for @Notsince67 to not back up his opinion of someone else's work, I bet you'd appreciate someone do the same to you?

Anyways - ti address Jon Coopers comments. He spoke those words on March 11, 2019 which was AFTER March 6, 2019, the day Brad Marchand tweeted "I cant wait to see this kids new deal... 12m AAV?? It better be". What did alot of the hockey world including Dubas call Marchands tweet ? "A master troll job". Dubas was of course indicating Marchand tweeted it to complicate the Leafs RFA contract talks with Marner. as it just so happens Coopers was only 5 days later? Jeez what a coincidence, how much flattery has Cooper been dishing since the contract?

To reiterate - Marchands tweet went viral in the hockey world and was all the talk over the next few days. A few days after Marchand when they were fully aware of Marchands tweet...Jon Cooper and Kucherov follow suite and its considered legitimate praise? I chalk it up as some smart trolling by the Leafs top competition and they got their way. It is not typical for a coach to go into the detail Jon Cooper did - he laid it on a bit thick in my opinion which makes his comments suspicious.

let me guess, you all will say that this was just a coincidence and Dubas didn't feel the same way about Cooper? What is the difference?

Marchand Marner Tweet:
Brad Marchand says people took his Mitch Marner tweet 'the wrong way' - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Sniper99]

Love the player hate the contract. 3 mill/ too much