Mitch Marner discussion thread continued ..

[ORRFForever]

If Matthews doesn’t understand that an eventual Marner deal is made to build a better team around him improve his chances of winning you probably wouldn’t mind letting him walk.

Fair enough. But the point the posters was making was:

Getting rid of Marner increases the odds of Matthews leaving when his contract is up. I think that's true.

In 3 years, we could end up with neither of them.

 

[Gabriel426]

I'm a Leaf fan so if we win the trade, great. I just don't think we will. That's another reason why I think Marner remains a Leaf.

Winning trade means doing better in playoffs and not regular seasons or how many points the players get.
I think a lot of teams like Marner’s contract bc the real salary is really low like 1mil. ESP on cash strap teams with pending UFAs or RFAs.

 

[Boxscore]

Maybe they can get Jones, Rantanen or Eichel for him in a fair 1 on 1 hockey trade.

For an extended Jones, yes, I think that is a win-win hockey trade.

For Rantanen? The Leafs aren't getting that kid for Marner unless Shanny drives to Denver, puts a black pillowcase over his head and throws him into the back of a van.

Eichel? Why? Our problem is that we have close to half of the cap tied up in 4 finesse forwards. Swapping Marner for Eichel is a fantasy hockey move like trading for Tyson Barrie was -- it's a paper trade.

If Marner is traded, a big upgrade on defense must be coming back -- or a forward with a completely different element, such as Matthew Tkachuk. You don't swap Marner for another frustrated finesse forward.

 

[Gabriel426]

Fair enough. But the point the posters was making was:

Getting rid of Marner increases the odds of Matthews leaving when his contract is up. I think that's true.

In 3 years we could end up with neither of them.

Well what if we win the Cup with neither of them.
ROR and Duchense were once thought of as the Core of Avs but both of them are gone and Avs is a powerhouse.

 

[Stephen]

Fair enough. But the point the posters was making was:

Getting rid of Marner increases the odds of Matthews leaving when his contract is up. I think that's true.

In 3 years we could end up with neither of them.

If Marner getting traded for the right pieces and cap flexibility to get better, it increases the possibility of having success with Matthews leading the way. But if we do this for another 3 years with no improvement, I'm not sure that we wouldn't want massive changes anyway.

 

[Superstar]

I admittedly never liked Marner’s style or game but I can’t say I didn’t try to or gave him a chance. This series pretty much did it for me. For the first time I can say I don’t want him on the team anymore. Him always having this pouty sad face every time he made a mistake like he’s feeling sorry for himself annoyed me even more.

I was really turned off by his contract negotiations...taking his hometown team to the woodshed...he turned down a 7 year $10 million per offer by the Leafs and ONLY signed shortly after when the news broke out, and media and fans got upset that he turned down such a lucrative deal...but even then he signed for a much better deal at 6 x $10.893 million...last year was a disappointment after losing to Columbus and Marner admitting he wasn't engaged to start the series...imagine that, getting paid almost CAD $20 million that year to not be engaged...this year, with him doing so well in the regular season, there wasn't much to criticize...I was hoping he could help the Leafs make a deep run...but holy crap, another no show again...it's inexcusable.

 

[ORRFForever]

If Marner getting traded for the right pieces and cap flexibility to get better, it increases the possibility of having success with Matthews leading the way. But if we do this for another 3 years with no improvement, I'm not sure that we wouldn't want massive changes anyway.

You lost me.

 

[Lightsol]

Well what if we win the Cup with neither of them.
ROR and Duchense were once thought of as the Core of Avs but both of them are gone and Avs is a powerhouse.

The Avs also had a f***TON of luck in the process. There's no other way of describing MacKinnon taking 5 years to go from 2nd-3rd line center to top 5 NHL player, and then having him sign a long term contract on the assumption that 2nd-3rd line center was his ceiling...

And their only terrible season in a while leads to them landing Cale Makar? Yeah, f***ing lucky.

 

[ORRFForever]

Well what if we win the Cup with neither of them.
ROR and Duchense were once thought of as the Core of Avs but both of them are gone and Avs is a powerhouse.

Okay.

I must be answering too many posts because I'm not sure what we're arguing.

 

[Superstar]

Marner's contract is simply untradeable, unless the Leafs plan to retain a lot of it. The guy is a very good player, but the reality is the skill is offset with his contract and term. Honestly, who takes him on?

It is very tradeable...his cap hit might be $10.893 million, but after July 1 when his bonus is paid, he's owed for around $7.5 million per year in real dollars for the remaining 4 years. No retention needed. He'll help any team make the playoffs, he's still a very good player, just not built for the playoffs.

 

[ORRFForever]

If I was GM for a day, I would trade Marner for smaller quality pieces as opposed to trading one super star for another.

 

[Blackjackz]

It is very tradeable...his cap hit might be $10.893 million, but after July 1 when his bonus is paid, he's owed for around $7.5 million per year in real dollars for the remaining 4 years. No retention needed.

Unless you are moving him to cap dweller, the cap hit is entirely the point... simply put Marner is a good player but NO WHERE NEAR an $11m cap hit... Honestly, who is going to make that move? Who has the cap? And combine it with the assets needed to make the transaction?

 

[ORRFForever]

The Avs also had a f***TON of luck in the process. There's no other way of describing MacKinnon taking 5 years to go from 2nd-3rd line center to top 5 NHL player, and then having him sign a long term contract on the assumption that 2nd-3rd line center was his ceiling...

And their only terrible season in a while leads to them landing Cale Makar? Yeah, f***ing lucky.

Yup. A lot went Colorado's way.

 

[Gabriel426]

The Avs also had a f***TON of luck in the process. There's no other way of describing MacKinnon taking 5 years to go from 2nd-3rd line center to top 5 NHL player, and then having him sign a long term contract on the assumption that 2nd-3rd line center was his ceiling...

And their only terrible season in a while leads to them landing Cale Makar? Yeah, f***ing lucky.

Maybe Leafs will have those luck too.
Point I am trying to make is that nobody can predict the future. Look at Islanders, they lost JT and been playing better ever since.
Maybe trading Marner will lead Leafs winning the Cup.
I am not saying let’s dump them for crap but what if the return for Marner is Jones or draft picks which eventually becoming the second coming of Bergeron

 

[AuraSphere]

Single handedly crippled the leafs roster for years to come.

Marner - 10.6M

Connor Brown, Kasperi Kapanen, Nazem Kadri Combined - 10.6M

Unbelivable how dubas got away with giving that contract

 

[Gabriel426]

Okay.

I must be answering too many posts because I'm not sure what we're arguing.

Don’t think we are arguing just discussing.
Actually more like therapy session, lol.

 

[themilosh]

Marner's contract is simply untradeable, unless the Leafs plan to retain a lot of it. The guy is a very good player, but the reality is the skill is offset with his contract and term. Honestly, who takes him on?

I think Seattle could be a great trade partner. They could handle his contract and hed be instant star power for them. Could probably get a 1st back. Straight up.
Then 11M freed up instantly. Done and done.

 

[ORRFForever]

I was really turned off by his contract negotiations....

Yup. That pissed a lot of people off and he set himself up to fail. You do that and you don't deliver when it counts and people are going to come after you.

Having said that, I'd want every dollar, too, and the Leafs were stupid enough to give it to him.

 

[Gabriel426]

Single handedly crippled the leafs roster for years to come.

Marner - 10.6M

Connor Brown, Kasperi Kapanen, Nazem Kadri Combined - 10.6M

Unbelivable how dubas got away with giving that contract

Brown is the guy I missed the most. He would have been the player who would be playing his heart out the last three games.

 

[Lightsol]

Maybe Leafs will have those luck too.
Point I am trying to make is that nobody can predict the future. Look at Islanders, they lost JT and been playing better ever since.
Maybe trading Marner will lead Leafs winning the Cup.
I am not saying let’s dump them for crap but what if the return for Marner is Jones or draft picks which eventually becoming the second coming of Bergeron

Gee, I wonder what the reaction around here would be if the Leafs had the kind of year Colorado had that led to them drafting Cale Makar...

They're calling for the dismantling of the roster for losing another first round series. If they missed the playoffs entirely?

 

[ORRFForever]

Don’t think we are arguing just discussing.
Actually more like therapy session, lol.

LOL. Fair enough.

 

[Havoc]

Fair enough. But the point the posters was making was:

Getting rid of Marner increases the odds of Matthews leaving when his contract is up. I think that's true.

In 3 years, we could end up with neither of them.

Matthews and Jones will be bros don't worry.

 

[ORRFForever]

Brown is the guy I missed the most. He would have been the player who would be playing his heart out the last three games.

We do seem to lack heart. When old man Spezza needs to step up, and he's someone who, for his entire career, was known for not having heart, it's not good.

 

[Gabriel426]

Gee, I wonder what the reaction around here would be if the Leafs had the kind of year Colorado had that led to them drafting Cale Makar...

They're calling for the dismantling of the roster for losing another first round series. If they missed the playoffs entirely?

I guess that will depends on the expectations in preseason.
Personally, I think a lot of Leafsnation will still cheer for the Leafs bc we Leafsnation but won’t be as invested till they win a round.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I'd look at moving him for Eichel. Not sure Buffalo would go for it but it would be worth looking into.