Mitch Marner discussion continues

[leafsfan5]

Think he meant Matthews was the 3rd best

Oh, I should've read the full conversation.

I disagree either way though lol

 

[NewEraGM]

Ordinarily, Leafs would have to add a lot.

But given:
- Eichel's injury
- Eichel demanding the trade, which generally puts the team trading him in a less favorable position
- Marner's real dollar cap hit being low
- Quality of other offers (which we don't know, but idk if any of them would include a piece as good as Marner)

I think it's a much closer one-for-one situation.

Please don’t try to spin the Marner contract as a good contract . The Pegulas are beyond filthy rich. We are not talking about “poor” owners here….Marners contract is nothing but a huge bogey when it comes to putting a trade together

 

[New User Name]

I Guess I'll be the one. Marner is not going to get us much with that contract. He at most was worth 2million more than what Nylander should have got which is 5.75 to 6 million.....so Mitch 7.75 to 8 million. and even that's rich. Matthews, 10 million would have been my max at max term.

Dubas the rookie GM got taken big time by experienced agents.

So, I know it's going to be unpopular...shop Auston Matthews. We all know he's leaving so why keep him?

In hindsight JT's contract really handcuffed us. I don't think Matthews or Marners ask would have been as high.

 

[Stephen]

I Guess I'll be the one. Marner is not going to get us much with that contract. He at most was worth 2million more than what Nylander should have got which is 5.75 to 6 million.....so Mitch 7.75 to 8 million. and even that's rich. Matthews, 10 million would have been my max at max term.

Dubas the rookie GM got taken big time by experienced agents.

So, I know it's going to be unpopular...shop Auston Matthews. We all know he's leaving so why keep him?

In hindsight JT's contract really handcuffed us. I don't think Matthews or Marners ask would have been as high.

I disagree. There are plenty of NHL teams who are farther back in the pack who could use Marner, since many of them aren't even playing post season games. Also, the cap hit vs real salary savings which would benefit cheap teams.

The criticism here is Marner could be a bad fit for Toronto. Doesn't equate with Marner being of no value or the fact that we'd have to 'dispose' of him as our GM believes.

 

[New User Name]

I disagree. There are plenty of NHL teams who are farther back in the pack who could use Marner, since many of them aren't even playing post season games. Also, the cap hit vs real salary savings which would benefit cheap teams.

The criticism here is Marner could be a bad fit for Toronto. Doesn't equate with Marner being of no value or the fact that we'd have to 'dispose' of him as our GM believes.

That's true, good point. Though it does limit the number of teams we could trade him to.

 

[KuleminFan41]

A player that hasn’t figured it out after 5 years in the playoffs is nothing more then a decent regular season player.
Stating what I think is a decent regular season player is my opinion……you don’t have to agree with it but don’t say I’m lying……it’s an opinion

Marcel Dionne rarely played in the playoffs, are you saying that he isn't a great player because he mostly put up points during the regular season? Marner actually isn't far off from his playoff totals with 20 points and 17 games less . You and I both know that logic is BS. 82 games is a much larger sample size than 7, no matter how much you want to close your eyes to it. Decent players don't put up the points he does consistently like he does , they just don't. Not every great player puts up loads of points every playoff, nor does it even guarantee success. A guy like Hossa put up 4 points in his first 3 playoff series by the age of 23, Marner had 17 points by the age of 22. Ovy put up 40 points and had 1 playoff series win to show for in his first 3 series. I'm not saying Marner is on par or better, but merely pointing out that, players go through peaks and valleys through the playoffs, it happens with a lot of great players. Its not as if Marner didn't put up 9 points against the Bruins , yes its one year but he can do it. There's no tried and true method for winning or being successful , Marner is still young , he just turned 24 in May, he's not 35

 

[ZEBROA]

I would rather have a 24year P Forsberg. Liked his dont make me angry aura. Marner is very punchable, always been. Still hope he figure it out here and become a real force in the playoffs.

 

[Stonehands1990]

I Guess I'll be the one. Marner is not going to get us much with that contract. He at most was worth 2million more than what Nylander should have got which is 5.75 to 6 million.....so Mitch 7.75 to 8 million. and even that's rich. Matthews, 10 million would have been my max at max term.

Dubas the rookie GM got taken big time by experienced agents.

So, I know it's going to be unpopular...shop Auston Matthews. We all know he's leaving so why keep him?

In hindsight JT's contract really handcuffed us. I don't think Matthews or Marners ask would have been as high.

Nylander is fairly priced….

 

[Dreakmur]

Nylander is fairly priced….

For an 8 year contract, I would have gone 7… which would have ended up like 6.75 after the not reporting recalculation.

 

[Stonehands1990]

For an 8 year contract, I would have gone 7… which would have ended up like 6.75 after the not reporting recalculation.

Using Pasternak as a comparable and factoring in cap appreciation Nylander would be paid 7.1. We got him for 6.9, slightly less % than Pasta. Seems fair to me

 

[hamzarocks]

Using Pasternak as a comparable and factoring in cap appreciation Nylander would be paid 7.1. We got him for 6.9, slightly less % than Pasta. Seems fair to me

Nylanders only true comparable is Nic Ehlers, both are almost exact twins at the NHL level in production.

He got 6x7 while nylander got some debated variation of 7.5x6, 6.96 x 5.67(1/3 season missed) or for me personally 7 x 5 (as 2019 Nylander wasn't a NHL top 9 player).

He should have gotten 8 x 6.5M. No reason Pastranak should have been used as his comparable as he was producing at a 10-15 point better pace all while having better offensive skillset and ceiling.

The deal was bad when it was signed, sucked the first year and is now fair value, only we have 3 years before he's a UFA and will want 8-9 (which he won't be worth)

 

[mikeyz]

He’s the third best forward.

On the Leafs or in the league?

Please tell me you’re referring to the former. Lol.

 

[Stonehands1990]

On the Leafs or in the league?

Please tell me you’re referring to the former. Lol.

It’s very clearly the former haha

 

[Stonehands1990]

Nylanders only true comparable is Nic Ehlers, both are almost exact twins at the NHL level in production.

He got 6x7 while nylander got some debated variation of 7.5x6, 6.96 x 5.67(1/3 season missed) or for me personally 7 x 5 (as 2019 Nylander wasn't a NHL top 9 player).

He should have gotten 8 x 6.5M. No reason Pastranak should have been used as his comparable as he was producing at a 10-15 point better pace all while having better offensive skillset and ceiling.

The deal was bad when it was signed, sucked the first year and is now fair value, only we have 3 years before he's a UFA and will want 8-9 (which he won't be worth)

Fair but it worked out and Nylander is the least of our problems. We have a coach who can’t utilize top end talent, a GM who can’t play hockey and an 11M winger who can’t go in corners

You either sit Marner for being scared or you drop him down against lower competition snd get him going. #FireKeefe

 

[hamzarocks]

If Marners elite he needs to be making Mikheyev and Engvall into 45 point players

I'll take them as a line with those two being 45 point guys and Marner 85ish.

Matthews plays with Robertson+ some UFA LW and does the same being a 85 point guy.

Time for these two to stop bitching so much and prove they can drive their own lines with depth players

 

[1specter]

just yeet this kid already

 

[Dreakmur]

On the Leafs or in the league?

Please tell me you’re referring to the former. Lol.

Matthews is easily the best forward on the Leafs, and I think he's #3 in the league.

 

[Stonehands1990]

If Marners elite he needs to be making Mikheyev and Engvall into 45 point players

I'll take them as a line with those two being 45 point guys and Marner 85ish.

Matthews plays with Robertson+ some UFA LW and does the same being a 85 point guy.

Time for these two to stop bitching so much and prove they can drive their own lines with depth players

11-34-88
65-91-11
89-15-16

 

[Kiwi]

As much as I hate Marners contract and have serious issues with his playoff performance now is not the time to be trading him

The kid is an elite offensive talent and I can't imagine his trade value is very good right now and teams usually don't get better selling quality players for less than ideal returns

Get his value up during the regular season and take another swing at the playoffs, if it turns to **** again we can revisit his future with the team then but I do believe we are better with him (in the regular season anyway)

 

[Stonehands1990]

It comes down to numbers.
There is no teams with a 10mil plus players making it past the 2nd round till the Habs.
The fact that two of these 10mil plus players need to play together is not good. If they can each play on three different lines and make players that are making under 2mil into 3-4mil players, then it might work.
Lastly, can’t move JT and AM is the big goal scoring C, that just leaves Marner.
Even if they trade Willie, the results will most likely be the same and Marner will be the next to go bc JT and AM are not going anywhere unless the return is also a big goal scoring C.

Every single person who understands hockey acknowledges this is the way to go. But Keefe is a brain dead idiot

 

[Racer88]

Marcel Dionne rarely played in the playoffs, are you saying that he isn't a great player because he mostly put up points during the regular season? Marner actually isn't far off from his playoff totals with 20 points and 17 games less . You and I both know that logic is BS. 82 games is a much larger sample size than 7, no matter how much you want to close your eyes to it. Decent players don't put up the points he does consistently like he does , they just don't. Not every great player puts up loads of points every playoff, nor does it even guarantee success. A guy like Hossa put up 4 points in his first 3 playoff series by the age of 23, Marner had 17 points by the age of 22. Ovy put up 40 points and had 1 playoff series win to show for in his first 3 series. I'm not saying Marner is on par or better, but merely pointing out that, players go through peaks and valleys through the playoffs, it happens with a lot of great players. Its not as if Marner didn't put up 9 points against the Bruins , yes its one year but he can do it. There's no tried and true method for winning or being successful , Marner is still young , he just turned 24 in May, he's not 35

Sorry but Marner has 1 goal in 3 years of playoffs and is paid 11 million dollars……..just not good enough

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Using Pasternak as a comparable and factoring in cap appreciation Nylander would be paid 7.1. We got him for 6.9, slightly less % than Pasta. Seems fair to me

Why in the world… in the WORLD… are you using Pastrnak as a comparable to Nylander?

Pastrnak paced for 38 goals/77 points his final elc year. What on earth is happening?

Let’s also add that Nylander is FAR more front-loaded than Pasta, FAR more in signing bonuses, and one less ufa year.

 

[ToneDog]

11-34-88
65-91-11
89-15-16

We won't have 1 Hyman let alone 2.

 

[ToneDog]

As much as I hate Marners contract and have serious issues with his playoff performance now is not the time to be trading him

The kid is an elite offensive talent and I can't imagine his trade value is very good right now and teams usually don't get better selling quality players for less than ideal returns

Get his value up during the regular season and take another swing at the playoffs, if it turns to **** again we can revisit his future with the team then but I do believe we are better with him (in the regular season anyway)

I get that there are still dumb GMs out there but what does another poor playoff (if they make it) performance do to his trade value with that cap hit ?

Seattle is coming into the league and has 81.5m in cap space. They are the only team that can take on that ugly cap hit without sending cap back.

Chances are Seattle won't be making the playoffs soon so poor playoffs won't be an issue for them.

 

[egd27]

I Guess I'll be the one. Marner is not going to get us much with that contract. He at most was worth 2million more than what Nylander should have got which is 5.75 to 6 million.....so Mitch 7.75 to 8 million. and even that's rich.

After this summer's bonus is paid, he is only owed $25M for the final 4 years. ($6.25M/yr)

So if a team has the cap room, the dollars are actually less than your arbitrary valuation.