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Mitch Marner Discussion Continued

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Almost September, getting closer to watching them play this year. Hopefully, Marner will continue to be a first team all star, and we do well in the post season!
 
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Leaf Fans said:
Almost September, getting closer to watching them play this year. Hopefully, Marner will continue to be a first team all star, and we do well in the past season!
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Hate to be the bearer of bad news but the past season has already happened and I can definitively tell you we did not do well.
 
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All of this can be simplified and I have seen it on this discussion...split the boys up! we have the depth with our big 4 to create mismatches all over the place...every single one of them can drive a line...

xxx- Matthews- XXX
xxx- Tavares-Nylander
xxx- xxx- Marner
xxx- xxx - xxx

Let's actually take advantage of the amount of skill our top 4 has and really make teams sweat...want to shut down Matty? ok well JT Willie and Mitch are free to roam...feel like Mitch is scary? well then I guess MAtty JT and Willie get some extra space...etc...like don't overthink things guys
 
Unless you're trying to counter something in a specific circumstance, there's no reason to split our best players into 3 lines.
 
Dekes For Days said:
Unless you're trying to counter something in a specific circumstance, there's no reason to split our best players into 3 lines.
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Why not?
Their individual stats might drop but if the Leafs end up with more Wins esp in the playoffs, who cares if AM is not a 50 goals scorer or Marner couldn't crack 85 pts or JT is 30G/30A.
AM can score 40 with pretty much anyone. Maybe Marner can make Kerfoot into a 30 goals scorer like he did with Kadri. Then you have JT who made a few bottom six players really rich. Let these players elevate other players as long as the team is winning more.
 
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cannucky said:
Check their past stats , when one or the other plays with 2 very lesser linemates their production has sunk , thats why everybody wanted Marner to move to Mathews line to boost Mathews stats but really is the increase in Mathews stats greater than the loss of production another line suffered without Marner ? It's really supposed to be about boosting the teams overall stats not justifying salaries .
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Production would be expected to decrease with inferior linemates, that's true for every player that's ever played. That doesn't mean that JT and Matthews will "tank" without good wingers which is what you said. JT also has a history of carrying lesser players so I think you're out to lunch on this one.
 
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Gabriel426 said:
Why not?
Their individual stats might drop but if the Leafs end up with more Wins esp in the playoffs, who cares if AM is not a 50 goals scorer or Marner couldn't crack 85 pts or JT is 30G/30A.
AM can score 40 with pretty much anyone. Maybe Marner can make Kerfoot into a 30 goals scorer like he did with Kadri. Then you have JT who made a few bottom six players really rich. Let these players elevate other players as long as the team is winning more.
Click to expand...

Depends on the game. Doing only one approach doesn't work. If the we're against Vegas where they're deep through the lineup but don't have a big shutdown unit, run a stacked top-6. If you're against a team with one really good unit, spread them out.
 
Dekes For Days said:
I'm not really concerned with individual stats, but there's really no reason to think it would lead to more wins. Probably the opposite.
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Not necessarily. The Leafs scored at a rate of 3.37 goals per game in 2017-18 and posted their franchise best 105 points that season but nobody scored more than 69 points as an individual (Marner) and no one scored more than 36 goals (JVR) that season, but had 6 guys score 20 or more goals.

In 2020-21 they were scoring at a rate of 3.34 goals per game as a team, but they got a lot less out of their depth scoring. You can say they were winning at pro rated 112 point pace, 7 more than the previous team record, but that 3.5 win delta wouldn't necessarily be attributed to having two guys finish in the top 5 scoring race.
 
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Gary Nylund said:
Production would be expected to decrease with inferior linemates, that's true for every player that's ever played. That doesn't mean that JT and Matthews will "tank" without good wingers which is what you said. JT also has a history of carrying lesser players so I think you're out to lunch on this one.
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Like I mentioned in the above post, if you can spread around the Big 4 to three lines and turn 1 or 2 of the depth pieces into a viable 15-20 goal scorer and reproduced some of the point distribution similar to 2017-18, you could live with worse individual Matthews/Tavares/Marner numbers. But as it stands, they'll probably be trending as a top heavy team with big production at the top of the lineup.
 
Dekes For Days said:
I'm not really concerned with individual stats, but there's really no reason to think it would lead to more wins. Probably the opposite.
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What about the PP, would you keep Marner and Matthews together after last years total collapse and inability to fix it?
 
Stephen said:
Like I mentioned in the above post, if you can spread around the Big 4 to three lines and turn 1 or 2 of the depth pieces into a viable 15-20 goal scorer and reproduced some of the point distribution similar to 2017-18, you could live with worse individual Matthews/Tavares/Marner numbers. But as it stands, they'll probably be trending as a top heavy team with big production at the top of the lineup.
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And with a coach who doesn’t believe in line matching so once again they will be neutered
 
Racer88 said:
And with a coach who doesn’t believe in line matching so once again they will be neutered
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I just hope they deploy the big guns on a matchup and situational basis. Obviously everyone loves the big numbers and scoring titles, so those are great. But when you have a defensive matchup and want to spread out the scoring wealth, go to three scoring lines. That said, spreading it out probably requires someone like Galchenyuk to be brought back.
 
Stephen said:
I just hope they deploy the big guns on a matchup and situational basis. Obviously everyone loves the big numbers and scoring titles, so those are great. But when you have a defensive matchup and want to spread out the scoring wealth, go to three scoring lines. That said, spreading it out probably requires someone like Galchenyuk to be brought back.
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I agree. If Marner and Matthews cannot compete against the other teams best then split them up or at least get them away from them as much as possible
 
zeke said:
Bold call, cotton.

Let's take a look at potential team canada, acknowledging that Tavares and Bergeron both face true #1C competition.

2yr PPG

Marchand (33) 1.27 --- McDavid (25) 1.68 --- MacKinnon (26) 1.35
Huberdeau (28) 1.12 --- Crosby (34) 1.14 --- Marner (24) 1.18
Stamkos (32) 1.05 --- Scheifele (28) 1.07 --- Stone (29) 1.03
Tavares (31) 0.92 --- Point (25) 0.92 --- Perron (33) 0.93
(O'Reilly (31) 0.91 -- Couturier (29) 0.88 -- Bergeron (36) 0.90)


Bergeron might still make it at age 36 but I doubt it'll be at Tavares' expense.
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I'd take both before Stamkos.
 
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Martin Skoula said:
Depends on the game. Doing only one approach doesn't work. If the we're against Vegas where they're deep through the lineup but don't have a big shutdown unit, run a stacked top-6. If you're against a team with one really good unit, spread them out.
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What you essentially said is options. If the Leafs don’t try spreading out in the regular season, it won’t be an option comes playoff time.
If the Leafs are chasing a game in the 3rd, stack the top 6. It is not against the rules to do so.
 
Gabriel426 said:
What you essentially said is options. If the Leafs don’t try spreading out in the regular season, it won’t be an option comes playoff time.
If the Leafs are chasing a game in the 3rd, stack the top 6. It is not against the rules to do so.
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Yeah the fix to Babcock's system wasn't to never dump and chase, it was to do whatever the situation called for. They should be trying a whole bunch of things throughout the season, this is two playoffs in a row now where Nylander at 3C would have been a viable option if he had reps with some two way wingers.
 
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Martin Skoula said:
Yeah the fix to Babcock's system wasn't to never dump and chase, it was to do whatever the situation called for. They should be trying a whole bunch of things throughout the season, this is two playoffs in a row now where Nylander at 3C would have been a viable option if he had reps with some two way wingers.
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Exactly, during Babs era, we kept saying stop using stretch passes…but then with Keefe, it seemed like the players forgot about the stretch pass.
It is strange that it seems like Leafs players and Coaches are just not smart enough to adjust in game.
 
Dekes For Days said:
I'm not really concerned with individual stats, but there's really no reason to think it would lead to more wins. Probably the opposite.
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Balance scoring, scoring depth are all common denominators for past Cup winners. Don’t see why the Leafs can’t follow that formula and be successful.
 
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