Mitch Marner Discussion Continued

[zeke]

I will take Toews before all of them, if he comes back successfully.

33...coming back from a year off from long covid...was already slipping the previous few years.....I dunno.

 

[Stephen]

Exactly, during Babs era, we kept saying stop using stretch passes…but then with Keefe, it seemed like the players forgot about the stretch pass.
It is strange that it seems like Leafs players and Coaches are just not smart enough to adjust in game.

Bruce Cassidy was always changing things up for the Bruins in those Toronto Boston series. You want a coaching sweet spot where tactical changes are made, but it also isn't a constant blender on the bottom lines while the stagnant top lines are rolled out over and over.

 

[Dreakmur]

And perron, obviously.

Barzal in position to take a spot tho.

Yeah, I like Perron… but he’s not quite team Canada material.

Barzal will depend how they want to build their team. Do they want to build a balanced team that maximizes the roster, or do they want to just take the best players and hope that even at diminished returns the best players are going to produce the best results.

Personally, I think we need a few guys like Couturier, O’Rielly, Bergeron, and maybe Toews. We don’t need all 4, but I would want at least 2. I also like Couture, but he might have missed his chances - got hurt in 2014 and no representation in 2018.

 

[Gabriel426]

Bruce Cassidy was always changing things up for the Bruins in those Toronto Boston series. You want a coaching sweet spot where tactical changes are made, but it also isn't a constant blender on the bottom lines while the stagnant top lines are rolled out over and over.

Exactly, he broke up the perfection line when they were scoring which led to spreading out offence and beating the Leafs.

 

[zeke]

Imagine the 4th line of Team Canada is Center by Toews, with JT and Bergeron as wingers
While having a 3rd line of Couturier, ROR and Stone.
McD with Point and Huderbeau.
Sid Will okay with his two buddies Marchand and Mack.

With Marner, Stamkos, Barzal, Schef, Cirelli, Monahan, and Horvat not making the team.

I mean, cirelli Monahan horvat shouldn't even be in the conversation.

And Marner is pretty much a lock imo.

 

[zeke]

Not necessarily. The Leafs scored at a rate of 3.37 goals per game in 2017-18 and posted their franchise best 105 points that season but nobody scored more than 69 points as an individual (Marner) and no one scored more than 36 goals (JVR) that season, but had 6 guys score 20 or more goals.

In 2020-21 they were scoring at a rate of 3.34 goals per game as a team, but they got a lot less out of their depth scoring. You can say they were winning at pro rated 112 point pace, 7 more than the previous team record, but that 3.5 win delta wouldn't necessarily be attributed to having two guys finish in the top 5 scoring race.

That's a difference in PP, tho, not in even strength lines.

Even Strength they were much better this year:

17-18: 2.78gf60
20-21: 2.98gf60

And that's even while drastically improving their defensive play:

17-18: 2.59xga60
20-21: 2.13xga60



Even Strength Scoring Paces (gls/pts)

17-18 ------> 20-21

Matthews 38/66 ----> Matthews 49/84
Nylander 15/49 -----> Marner 30/76
Marner 14/42 --------> Nylander 21/50

Kadri 21/37 -----------> Tavares 19/56
Marleau 22/38 -------> Hyman 23/53
Hyman 14/38 ---------> Spezza 14/38

Bozak 8/30 -------------> Kerfoot 10/30
JVR 25/35 ---------------> Galchenyuk 13/38
Brown 12/25 ----------> Thornton 9/28

Moore 10/18 -----------> Engvall 14/24
Martin 5/20 ------------> Mikheyev 11/24
Komarov 4/17 --------> Simmonds 9/13
Kapanen 12/16 ------> Boyd/Vesey 12/24

 

[aight]

That's a difference in PP, tho, not in even strength lines.

Even Strength

17-18: 2.78gf60
20-21: 2.98gf60

And that's even while drastically improving their defensive play:

17-18: 2.59xga60
20-21: 2.13xga60

Any prediction for this coming season?

 

[Stonehands1990]

All of this can be simplified and I have seen it on this discussion...split the boys up! we have the depth with our big 4 to create mismatches all over the place...every single one of them can drive a line...

xxx- Matthews- XXX
xxx- Tavares-Nylander
xxx- xxx- Marner
xxx- xxx - xxx

Let's actually take advantage of the amount of skill our top 4 has and really make teams sweat...want to shut down Matty? ok well JT Willie and Mitch are free to roam...feel like Mitch is scary? well then I guess MAtty JT and Willie get some extra space...etc...like don't overthink things guys

I’ve seen this suggested by hundreds of knowledgeable fans but our idiot head coach won’t ever try it

 

[zeke]

Any prediction for this coming season?

Lots of wins.

 

[aight]

Lots of wins.

Alright sorry

 

[Gabriel426]

I mean, cirelli Monahan horvat shouldn't even be in the conversation.

And Marner is pretty much a lock imo.

I don’t know about Marner being a lock. Since does Team Canada really need a playmaker like him?
Sid will either be playing with Marchand and Bergeron or Mack.
McDavid doesn’t need a playmaker on his line.
One of the four lines will be a shutdown type line and Marner is not better than ROR, Couturier, Stone and Toews(if he is 100%).
Which is down to the forth line, which will be one of Point or Bergeron(depending on how the top 2 lines take shape) Stamkos and the last spot will most likely be a C in Toews or Barzal.
Unless Cooper keeps Sid, Bergeron and Marchand as a top line and go with McD-Mack and Huber as another line. Then have Stamkos-Point-Marner as a scoring 3rd line with ROR-Stone-Couturier as the shutdown line.
But Marner would still be playing over JT, Schef, Toews(if healthy) and Barzal-which may not be as good a player maker than Marner but is an overall better player.
Not to mention Seguin and Benn could have a huge bounce back season.

 

[zeke]

I don’t know about Marner being a lock. Since does Team Canada really need a playmaker like him?
Sid will either be playing with Marchand and Bergeron or Mack.
McDavid doesn’t need a playmaker on his line.
One of the four lines will be a shutdown type line and Marner is not better than ROR, Couturier, Stone and Toews(if he is 100%).
Which is down to the forth line, which will be one of Point or Bergeron(depending on how the top 2 lines take shape) Stamkos and the last spot will most likely be a C in Toews or Barzal.
Unless Cooper keeps Sid, Bergeron and Marchand as a top line and go with McD-Mack and Huber as another line. Then have Stamkos-Point-Marner as a scoring 3rd line with ROR-Stone-Couturier as the shutdown line.
But Marner would still be playing over JT, Schef, Toews(if healthy) and Barzal-which may not be as good a player maker than Marner but is an overall better player.
Not to mention Seguin and Benn could have a huge bounce back season.

Marner is like the 4th best offensive Canadian forward. He's a lock.

People seem to think that the team is going to be the same as it was 6 years ago.

 

[Gabriel426]

Marner is like the 4th best offensive Canadian forward. He's a lock.

People seem to think that the team is going to be the same as it was 6 years ago.

Just bc he is not a lock, it doesn’t make him a bad player.
Giroux was top 5 in points during the season and didn’t get selected to be on Team Canada. Mike Green led all Dmen in scoring(I think)and he didn’t get selected and I think the guy that selected over him was Dan Boyle and a 20 yrs old Drew.
It happens.
I won’t be surprise if Team Canada pick someone younger like Byfield or Laf(example) in the last spot over JT, Schef and even Barzal. Same, they might also pick a young Dman like Bayum(example) over guys like Giordano, Brodie, Reilly, And Nurse.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Check their past stats , when one or the other plays with 2 very lesser linemates their production has sunk , thats why everybody wanted Marner to move to Mathews line to boost Mathews stats but really is the increase in Mathews stats greater than the loss of production another line suffered without Marner ? It's really supposed to be about boosting the teams overall stats not justifying salaries .

Someone greatly benefits from playing with elite players, and his initials are MM.

 

[supsens]

I’ve seen this suggested by hundreds of knowledgeable fans but our idiot head coach won’t ever try it

Wouldn't you want your 10 million dollar guy playing more than third line minutes? If you think his 94 point season makes him overpaid I would hate to see how 60 points would look

 

[Dreakmur]

I won’t be surprise if Team Canada pick someone younger like Byfield or Laf(example) in the last spot over JT, Schef and even Barzal. Same, they might also pick a young Dman like Bayum(example) over guys like Giordano, Brodie, Reilly, And Nurse.

I'd be shocked if they didn't select the best possible team. There's lots of different theories on how to build the best team, but taking a few kids just for the experience isn't one of them. They aren't building for the next Olympics, they're trying to win this one.

 

[Ashdown2]

I’ve seen this suggested by hundreds of idiot fans but our knowledgeable head coach won’t ever try it

here ill fix that statement for you
apperently, the coach who has delivered one of the best 5 on 5 teams in the league is an idiot

the issue last year was the powerplay , putting marner on the 3rd line is beyond stupid

 

[Racer88]

If they can’t ruin any opponent, those contracts are a problem…

I know that but so far they can’t beat high quality opposition so our only option is for the coach to try and get them more sheltered minutes so they can perform

 

[hotpaws]

Marner's a lock and there's no way they take JT , hell even at his peak JT was nothing more than a depth winger playing limited sheltered mins .

 

[Racer88]

Marner is like the 4th best offensive Canadian forward. He's a lock.

People seem to think that the team is going to be the same as it was 6 years ago.

Marner has yet to prove he can produce under pressure so I’m not so sure they would pick him for a short tourney which is basically a bunch of elimination games

 

[DarkKnight]

Marner has yet to prove he can produce under pressure so I’m not so sure they would pick him for a short tourney which is basically a bunch of elimination games

Big ice, he’s a complete lock to make the team.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Big ice, he’s a complete lock to make the team.

Beijing will be played on NHL sized ice.

 

[Dreakmur]

here ill fix that statement for you
apperently, the coach who has delivered one of the best 5 on 5 teams in the league is an idiot

the issue last year was the powerplay , putting marner on the 3rd line is beyond stupid

The coach who was gifted an elite roster has led them to disappointment…

Splitting up Marner and Matthews should be automatic at this point.

 

[Racer88]

Big ice, he’s a complete lock to make the team.

That might be his only chance but I still feel his lack of production under pressure will outweigh the big ice where he should be able to avoid physical contact

opps I just read that it will be NHL ice…….he is gone

 

[DarkKnight]

Beijing will be played on NHL sized ice.

Oh sorry my bad.