Mitch Marner Discussion Continued

[myleafs]

All the people.crying about Babcock not playing guys enough are crying about Keefe playing guys too much.

It's funny.

For me it was more that Babs didn't use the dynamic duo when it warranted it. He trotted Marleau or an injured Hyman instead of MorM and his reasoning for Marleau was that it was his turn...He just did not want to play the 2 together very much even when we needed a goal.....stuff like that. Keefe on the other hand has gone too far the other way, playing M&M way too much and to me it was obvious as the series wore on that the dynamic duo were gassed. Keefe did not manage the duo very well imo but it doesn't take away from the fact that neither one brought their A game.

 

[ACC1224]

All the people.crying about Babcock not playing guys enough are crying about Keefe playing guys too much.

It's funny.

All of them? Do you keep a list?

 

[Racer88]

I've seen every single game of Marner's NHL career. None of it is true.

All of its true……….I can keep this up for days.

 

[nsleaf]

All of its true……….I can keep this up for days.

Cool, but why would you?

 

[All Mod Cons]

All of them? Do you keep a list?

I do. A group of us share it. It's very secretive.

 

[Racer88]

Cool, but why would you?

Good point……maybe I’m a glutton for punishment. Lol

 

[Racer88]

I do. A group of us share it. It's very secretive.

Do you guys have a secret handshake as well

 

[All Mod Cons]

Do you guys have a secret handshake as well

Just a sign. Adapted from the Van Buren Boys in Seinfeld.

 

[freshwind]

Do you guys have a secret handshake as well

 

[Racer88]

Just a sign. Adapted from the Van Buren Boys in Seinfeld.

Ahhhhh that makes sense

 

[Racer88]

View attachment 462051

Hahahaha

 

[diceman934]

All groups who post nonsense have a common trait. They are all full of it. Hence the men’s room secret handshake.

 

[diceman934]

Keep in mind though, Marner's yardstick isn't limited to other underachieving Toronto Maple Leafs, it's also inclusive of people like Brayden Point, Mikko Rantanen, Sebastian Aho, Mathew Barzal...

How many minutes a game do they get played?

 

[Dekes For Days]

And now that we've seen the line stacking

We haven't really seen line stacking, other than the occasional shift. We've seen top-six pairings.

Keep in mind though, Marner's yardstick isn't limited to other underachieving Toronto Maple Leafs

Ideally, it would help people acknowledge the impact that external factors have on raw playoff production, and highlight the problem with comparing across teams in the same way as regular season points.

 

[Bomber0104]

We haven't really seen line stacking, other than the occasional shift. We've seen top-six pairings.

Ideally, it would help people acknowledge the impact that external factors have on raw playoff production, and highlight the problem with comparing across teams in the same way as regular season points.

"Raw playoff production"

Hilarious use of language.

You could just abbreviate that into one neat and tidy word to make everyone's life a lot easier.

The word you're looking for is RESULTS.

The Leafs haven't been getting any RESULTS / raw / medium rare playoff production

 

[Antropovsky]

I've seen every single game of Marner's NHL career. None of it is true.

Interesting... remember during this postseason when I said I hadn't watched every minute of every playoff game this postseason but from what I saw Marner needed to play better?

You said Marner was playing excellent hockey and you knew better than me because *gasp* I hadn't watched every minute of Marner like you had. In fact you kept repeating in subsequent posts to try to discredit me.

Soooo how did that argument work out for you?

He's not a top 5 paid player in the league, for the record, and he earned his contract by putting up one of the best pre-signing periods in the entire cap era. While it's important to see more playoff production out of him going forward, there are valid reasons for him to have seen some level of decreased production over that time, and goal-scoring is not the skill that makes him an amazing player, so it's a bit misleading to focus exclusively on that to define his contributions.

You're back to making confident statements about how you know Marner so well....with proclamations like "that's not true" and "I've watched every game of Marners".... it's the same argument you were using during the postseason when you said posters were incorrect about Marner not playing good enough. Now (bolded above) you're admitting he wasn't good enough in the postseason?

So how are you so convinced that you're so right about Marner now? When you have now admitted your judgements of him were incorrect just a couple months ago?

 

[Dekes For Days]

"Raw playoff production"
Hilarious use of language.

I'm not sure what you find so hilarious about a pretty common term. Raw just refers to a simple whole number total. Statement holds true, raw or not.

 

[Dekes For Days]

remember during this postseason when I said I hadn't watched every minute of every playoff game this postseason but from what I saw Marner needed to play better? You said Marner was playing excellent hockey and you knew better than me because *gasp* I hadn't watched every minute of Marner like you had.

That's quite the misrepresentation. What I remember is finding it odd that you were making statements about how bad Marner and the Leafs were in games (that we won) that you admitted to not watching the majority of. I remember you focusing in on the one negative comment a broadcast team made, on a night when they were gushing non-stop over his play. I remember you trying to evaluate a playmaker's performance exclusively by goal-scoring. I remember you being wrong about basic things, like the number of primary assists he had in the series.

What I had actually said about Marner during that interaction was that he had a great game, which was true. I also didn't say that I knew better than you because you hadn't watched every minute. The problem was that you were making unsupported arguments about games you didn't watch, that contradicted both all statistical evidence, as well as the "eye test".

it's the same argument you were using during the postseason when you said posters were incorrect about Marner not playing good enough. Now (bolded above) you're admitting he wasn't good enough in the postseason?

Your comments at the time consisted of a lot more than just "not playing good enough", and that was after Marner had just had a great game and Toronto was up 3-1. With 3 straight losses since, during which time they struggled with conversion, it's fair to say that it's important to see more conversion specifically. It is however also important to understand what those conversion struggles are a result of, instead of just arbitrarily concluding that he sucks and is playing badly.

When you have now admitted your judgements of him were incorrect just a couple months ago?

I haven't said anything incorrect about Marner.

 

[Leaf Fans]

That's quite the misrepresentation. What I remember is finding it odd that you were making statements about how bad Marner and the Leafs were in games (that we won) that you admitted to not watching the majority of. I remember you focusing in on the one negative comment a broadcast team made, on a night when they were gushing non-stop over his play. I remember you trying to evaluate a playmaker's performance exclusively by goal-scoring. I remember you being wrong about basic things, like the number of primary assists he had in the series.

What I had actually said about Marner during that interaction was that he had a great game, which was true. I also didn't say that I knew better than you because you hadn't watched every minute. The problem was that you were making unsupported arguments about games you didn't watch, that contradicted both all statistical evidence, as well as the "eye test".

Your comments at the time consisted of a lot more than just "not playing good enough", and that was after Marner had just had a great game and Toronto was up 3-1. With 3 straight losses since, during which time they struggled with conversion, it's fair to say that it's important to see more conversion specifically. It is however also important to understand what those conversion struggles are a result of, instead of just arbitrarily concluding that he sucks and is playing badly.

I haven't said anything incorrect about Marner.

Is there a problem with Marner now?

 

[Stephen]

We haven't really seen line stacking, other than the occasional shift. We've seen top-six pairings.

Ideally, it would help people acknowledge the impact that external factors have on raw playoff production, and highlight the problem with comparing across teams in the same way as regular season points.

Would seem like it’s only a “problem” to compare the raw playoff points of these players with Marner because it’s “unfavourable.”

 

[Stonehands1990]

How many minutes a game do they get played?

From 2018-2019 to now using the playoffs only
Kucherov 20:09
Point 19:41

But that’s because Cooper has a clue what he’s doing and doesn’t run players into the ground like Keefe has done 2 playoffs in a row

 

[Dekes For Days]

Would seem like it’s only a “problem” to compare the raw playoff points of these players with Marner because it’s “unfavourable.”

If anything, acknowledging the issues only seems to be a problem because ignoring external factor discrepancies (which are quite significant in the playoffs) is more "unfavourable" to Marner.

 

[mikeyz]

Not to mention they only played 58 games last year and had 2 weeks off before the playoffs. These marner stans excuses are hilarious. They just keep reaching further snd further

Checkmate.

 

[Antropovsky]

That's quite the misrepresentation. What I remember is finding it odd that you were making statements about how bad Marner and the Leafs were in games (that we won) that you admitted to not watching the majority of. I remember you focusing in on the one negative comment a broadcast team made, on a night when they were gushing non-stop over his play. I remember you trying to evaluate a playmaker's performance exclusively by goal-scoring. I remember you being wrong about basic things, like the number of primary assists he had in the series.

What I had actually said about Marner during that interaction was that he had a great game, which was true. I also didn't say that I knew better than you because you hadn't watched every minute. The problem was that you were making unsupported arguments about games you didn't watch, that contradicted both all statistical evidence, as well as the "eye test".

Your comments at the time consisted of a lot more than just "not playing good enough", and that was after Marner had just had a great game and Toronto was up 3-1. With 3 straight losses since, during which time they struggled with conversion, it's fair to say that it's important to see more conversion specifically. It is however also important to understand what those conversion struggles are a result of, instead of just arbitrarily concluding that he sucks and is playing badly.

I haven't said anything incorrect about Marner.

Haha you found it odd? Looking forward to digging up some of these posts tomorrow

 

[ZEBROA]

It must be hard for the Marnerdude to know that nothing he does in the regular season will be enough. Not even a goal per game. If he dont contribute more in the playoffs, nobody cares.
Would be nice with that kind of money but im not envious of the situation he put himself in.