Mitch Marner Discussion Continued

[Curt]

Dude wake up, they choked a 3-1 series lead. The D-core let them down. Sandin and Dermott with massive mistakes, Galchenyuk as well. They gifted the Habs. The team has no heart, no killer instinct, no idea how to close out a series @ the last 7 years. Bottom line.....Kyle Dubas is why the Leafs have lost in the playoffs the last 3 yrs.

0 goals in 18 playoff games by a top 5 paid player who threatened to go to Europe.


When will you marner stans understand nothing else matters.

 

[Curt]

Marner cares. He's just currently not built for playoff hockey. Not as a number 1 option anyway. It's been 5 years and his best playoffs have been 1. Away from Matthews and 2. Away from the teams top line and defensive pairings. Dubas might be willing to but his career on Marner but Keefe should not (he will though). Keefe's trump card of "throw Matthews and Marner out there" hasn't worked in the playoffs for two consecutive years. He's probably hoping third time's a charm but I'm not so optimistic.

If we see Matthews and Marner together again and we once again fall short there should be a huge house cleaning of management including Dubas who I actually like. Dubas, Shanny, Keefe all should be gone. Marner, Matthews, JT, and Nylander are all good players, but Dubas overpaid them, Keefe is arrogant and doesn't know how to coach properly in the playoffs, and Shanny let it all happen under his tutelage.

Lol he has the same build as point. He’s soft. He doesn’t care. It’s the simple. Your marner excuses are absolutely pathetic

 

[Byron Bitz]

It was a 2 minute penalty, and as I said, he actually drew more penalties than he took. It was not the worst puck over glass penalty ever. It was not the worst timing ever - we actually came back to tie it. It did not single-handedly cost us the series like you want to claim. It was a simple mistake, that anybody can make. The fact that you go on to talk about his contract again shows what this is really about.

Ok your right there was nothing wrong with that play. My mistake, Marner’s doing great he should just keep doing what he’s doing. He’s a playoff warrior

 

[Dekes For Days]

Ok your right there was nothing wrong with that play. My mistake, Marner’s doing great he should just keep doing what he’s doing.

I didn't say taking a minor penalty is a positive thing, but it's important to recognize it for what it is - a minor penalty caused by a player getting under the puck slightly too much, not evil incarnate come to single-handedly sabotage the team. I'm not sure how somebody could put such massive importance on a minor penalty, and then ignore the fact that that player drew more minor penalties than he took.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Lol there’s your playoff marner people. That’s how much he cares.


How can anyone defend this selfish clown after watching garbage like that

Wow just so much the worst possible take anyone could have on that. Congratulations champ. Worst post i ever seen on here. Maybe you aren’t cut out for this. Lol. Reel in your hate man

Edit: oh wait maybe not the worst stand alone post, i just read a bunch of your pists. You are riding the wave of nonsense thats unprecedented. Just one nonsense post after the other. Get real man

 

[Wafflewhipper]

On one hand you're right, win and lose as a team, plenty of blame to go around and so on. On the other hand, the guys you mention ... mistakes happen but Marner being one of the highest paid players in the world gets held to a higher standard. The mistake he made was also so incredibly dumb as he was under no pressure, he had all the time in the world and still did the dumbest possible thing so it's understandable that that play stands out as the defining moment of the series and will be remembered for decades to come.

Really eh. Thats the way you want to run with that series loss! Wrong team construction and attitude play the major part in years of losses.
Matthews and Marner both choked. These guys both can’t take the pressure it looks like. They better man up from now on. Gave it away in game 5 as a entire team is what happened. Most disgusting display of choke showed up in that game early and often. Hey though when you don’t have a roster that can cone out in that game and physically pound them in to the ground and throw them off with chippy play and fights and hard hits thats what you get.
This team was again poorly put together last year. Game 5 like that you ate chirping and in Montreals face before the puck even drops and p!ss them off and get on them. These guys were meek and mild. Choker style

 

[Gary Nylund]

Really eh. Thats the way you want to run with that series loss! Wrong team construction and attitude play the major part in years of losses.
Matthews and Marner both choked. These guys both can’t take the pressure it looks like. They better man up from now on. Gave it away in game 5 as a entire team is what happened. Most disgusting display of choke showed up in that game early and often. Hey though when you don’t have a roster that can cone out in that game and physically pound them in to the ground and throw them off with chippy play and fights and hard hits thats what you get.
This team was again poorly put together last year. Game 5 like that you ate chirping and in Montreals face before the puck even drops and p!ss them off and get on them. These guys were meek and mild. Choker style

I said plenty of blame to go around, if you don't agree that's fine.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I said plenty of blame to go around, if you don't agree that's fine.

Yeah lots of blame to go around is right. Starting with Management.

 

[myleafs]

Wow just so much the worst possible take anyone could have on that. Congratulations champ. Worst post i ever seen on here. Maybe you aren’t cut out for this. Lol. Reel in your hate man

Edit: oh wait maybe not the worst stand alone post, i just read a bunch of your pists. You are riding the wave of nonsense thats unprecedented. Just one nonsense post after the other. Get real man

Yea, I get the criticisms and questions regarding Marner as I am one of those who is doing that but the outright hate and personal attacks are over the top and are beyond the pale. This applies to Dubas as well. Though there are still some well thought out both sides of the coin opinions, discussions are becoming more and more like a proud boys #45 orange man rally filled with hate and vitrol. Its embarrassing. I appreciate the posters who continue to bring something of substance to the table whether I agree or not but more and more I just feel dirty round these parts. Unfortunate as I love me some leafs talk but its becoming less and less enjoyable.

A quote from unkown..."the good news about the internet is that everyone has a voice....the bad news about the internet is that everyone has a voice"

 

[Bomber0104]

Yea, I get the criticisms and questions regarding Marner as I am one of those who is doing that but the outright hate and personal attacks are over the top and are beyond the pale. This applies to Dubas as well. Though there are still some well thought out both sides of the coin opinions, discussions are becoming more and more like a proud boys #45 orange man rally filled with hate and vitrol. Its embarrassing. I appreciate the posters who continue to bring something of substance to the table whether I agree or not but more and more I just feel dirty round these parts. Unfortunate as I love me some leafs talk but its becoming less and less enjoyable.

A quote from unkown..."the good news about the internet is that everyone has a voice....the bad news about the internet is that everyone has a voice"

This is a fanbase that simply loves to scapegoat.

Carlyle -> Kadri -> Babcock -> Andersen -> Marner (current target)

 

[myleafs]

This is a fanbase that simply loves to scapegoat.

Carlyle -> Kadri -> Babcock -> Andersen -> Marner (current target)

And I was critical of all of the above which I don't have an issue with. Its when it becomes personal and hate filled is where it goes off the rails for me. If name calling is all someone has to back up their opinion it tells me all I need to know.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Yea, I get the criticisms and questions regarding Marner as I am one of those who is doing that but the outright hate and personal attacks are over the top and are beyond the pale. This applies to Dubas as well. Though there are still some well thought out both sides of the coin opinions, discussions are becoming more and more like a proud boys #45 orange man rally filled with hate and vitrol. Its embarrassing. I appreciate the posters who continue to bring something of substance to the table whether I agree or not but more and more I just feel dirty round these parts. Unfortunate as I love me some leafs talk but its becoming less and less enjoyable.

A quote from unkown..."the good news about the internet is that everyone has a voice....the bad news about the internet is that everyone has a voice"

It’s probably enough to say they choked out and Matthews and Marner didn’t help much. Then just hope they come back hungrier than ever. It can’t wear on them. If they allow it to beat them down that’s not good. Somehow they have to learn to dominate as much in the playoffs as regular season.

 

[Gabriel426]

This is a fanbase that simply loves to scapegoat.

Carlyle -> Kadri -> Babcock -> Andersen -> Marner (current target)

Well, they didn't perform.

Carlyle might be only exception as the Leafs under him weren't talented at all and gave up at the end.
Kadri just lost it in playoffs
Babs did his job but rather than play his players to their strengths, he just wanted them to play his ways. I also don't think he communicated as well as he thought with his players.
Andersen is Andersen, he is cracked under pressure(playoffs) and this past season shows he is no longer the player he once was.
Marner just choked in playoffs.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Lol he has the same build as point. He’s soft. He doesn’t care. It’s the simple. Your marner excuses are absolutely pathetic

Yike, you might want to re read what I wrote if you think that's a Marner excuse.

It's not Marner's fault that Keefe keeps putting him in positions he can't handle right now. A good coach would have split the two up after seeing Marner clearly can't handle the top spot. Even if he doesn't want to touch that second line put Marner on the third line. Just do something to get him away from the top competition because he just can't handle it.

Sucks that you have to do that with an 11M player but it is what it is. When the pressure is on Marner is not. Keefe's trump card of more Marner in the playoffs isn't working.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Marner is clearly taking too much heat. He's a top talent and any team in the league would take him even at his salary at this point.

Unfortunately he's also the most obvious contract to move if structural changes are to be made (not to mention retaining Rielly}.

 

[frizzer1]

If Matthews’ wrist had been healed he would have scored with that wicked shot of his, and also carried the puck a lot more.......
If Hyman had done anything with all the wide open opportunities he had......
Had price not made that incredible save on Marner.....
If any of the above had happened Marner would have had a boatload of assists and no one would be talking about this now
Having said that, it’s true that he did not play well but I think that the reaction is somewhat over the top.

 

[Antropovsky]

Marner is clearly taking too much heat. He's a top talent and any team in the league would take him even at his salary at this point.

Unfortunately he's also the most obvious contract to move if structural changes are to be made (not to mention retaining Rielly}.

Too much heat? Is there any other top paid NHL player in the history of the game who didn't score in 18 straight playoff games?

How many top played NHL players haven't scored a powerplay goal in nearly an entire season?

He's a skilled player but he is not a guy who is willing to take punishment. He will work hard, but he won't grind. If he played in the dirty areas, it's my opinion he undoubtedly scores in those 18 games.

 

[Antropovsky]

My concern is Marner is being force fed a leadership role when he doesn't seem like he can hack it. Matthews seems ready and knows how to handle the heat... yet he has to share an A with Marner "social media can be bad" Marner.

 

[myleafs]

If Matthews’ wrist had been healed he would have scored with that wicked shot of his, and also carried the puck a lot more.......
If Hyman had done anything with all the wide open opportunities he had......
Had price not made that incredible save on Marner.....
If any of the above had happened Marner would have had a boatload of assists and no one would be talking about this now
Having said that, it’s true that he did not play well but I think that the reaction is somewhat over the top.

That is one boatload of what ifs. In the real world though, none of those things happened so I'm not sure what we are supposed to take from this? That if a bunch of things that didn't happen would have happened we would be awesome and won the cup?

 

[myleafs]

My concern is Marner is being force fed a leadership role when he doesn't seem like he can hack it. Matthews seems ready and knows how to handle the heat... yet he has to share an A with Marner "social media can be bad" Marner.

I think you're on to something with this. Just because he makes 11M doesn't make him Mark Messier leadership wise even if he and his dad and Keefe think he is. . It was like making Kessel the "man" or Phaneuf the Captain....neither were leaders but were put into that position and it affected their play and the attitude of the fans towards them.

Like Kessel, Marner may only be a greater complimentary piece and thats ok if he is used that way but lately he is being used as the "man" Top pp guy who handles the puck more than anyone including our best player, pk, 24min in the playoffs. To me it isnt that he wasnt trying hard enough in the playoffs, its that he was trying too hard. We are seeing him in real time not be able to handle the added pressure, so it would seem obvious to take some of it off of him, at least until he shows he can handle it.

 

[Racer88]

I think you're on to something with this. Just because he makes 11M doesn't make him Mark Messier leadership wise even if he and his dad and Keefe think he is. . It was like making Kessel the "man" or Phaneuf the Captain....neither were leaders but were put into that position and it affected their play and the attitude of the fans towards them.

Like Kessel, Marner may only be a greater complimentary piece and thats ok if he is used that way but lately he is being used as the "man" Top pp guy who handles the puck more than anyone including our best player, pk, 24min in the playoffs. To me it isnt that he wasnt trying hard enough in the playoffs, its that he was trying too hard. We are seeing him in real time not be able to handle the added pressure, so it would seem obvious to take some of it off of him, at least until he shows he can handle it.

All this may be true and if it is, you shouldn’t be paying a complimentary piece 11 million dollars

 

[myleafs]

All this may be true and if it is, you shouldn’t be paying a complimentary piece 11 million dollars

I agree with you but if we have him in the line up we may as well get the most out of him.

 

[mikeyz]

I didn't say taking a minor penalty is a positive thing, but it's important to recognize it for what it is - a minor penalty caused by a player getting under the puck slightly too much, not evil incarnate come to single-handedly sabotage the team. I'm not sure how somebody could put such massive importance on a minor penalty, and then ignore the fact that that player drew more minor penalties than he took.

Okay, now explain why he’s a top 5 paid player in the league with 0 goals in his last 18 playoff games.

 

[mikeyz]

Marner is clearly taking too much heat.

Well he deserves every single bit of it.

That’s what happens when you are being paid top 5 in the league and not scoring a goal in 18 straight playoff games. Plus his theatrics with daddy dearest about threatening to play in Europe.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Okay, now explain why he’s a top 5 paid player in the league with 0 goals in his last 18 playoff games.

He's not a top 5 paid player in the league, for the record, and he earned his contract by putting up one of the best pre-signing periods in the entire cap era. While it's important to see more playoff production out of him going forward, there are valid reasons for him to have seen some level of decreased production over that time, and goal-scoring is not the skill that makes him an amazing player, so it's a bit misleading to focus exclusively on that to define his contributions.