Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part X | Will Mitch get an OS?

[ACC1224]

It was most likely Leiweike who got MLSE to put full support behind it, which allowed Shanahan to implement it. Leiweike was key in re-organizing all 3 of MLSE properties. His whole mantra was against being a middling team, and the way to stop that with the Leafs was a full tear-down.

Lucking in to Rielly, Matthews and Marner helped as well.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I am impressed that they committed to a full rebuild - it was long overdue. Was that Shannahan or ownership? not sure but it doesn't matter. my point is after the committment to the full rebuild there has not been anything done overly impressive that would not have been done by a different mgmt team committed to a full rebuild. You have no 1 pick in matthews year, taking him is a no-brainer. I suppose laine could have been taken. Taking Matthews in that spot is hardly discovering America. Tavares wanted to come home again - pretty much any mgmt group gets that done. The other 2 key pieces were Marner and Nylander, again hardly going out on a limb with top 10 picks.

Lou's moves are under Shanny and part of his plan good or bad. Also KD knew what Marleaus contract was when he took over, his moves until a week ago did little to alleviate that problem.

I don't think the rebuild has been a resounding success. It went from nothing to too much $$ tied up in the top end and no depth without actually winning anything. Unless a drastic move is made (getting rid of one of the big 4 to have the dollars for depth and D) this team will be missing the playoffs before it wins a round.

Again, you're completely ignoring teams like EDM and BUF who have had nowhere near the success we have with their rebuilds.

I'd also bet a ton that without any drastic moves, we'll win a round before we miss the playoffs. We'll see.

 

[SprDaVE]

 

[IBeL34f]

Lucking in to Rielly, Matthews and Marner helped as well.

What luck was involved for Rielly and Marner?

 

[ACC1224]

Lying?
Or perhaps Dubas doesn't follow Dreger?

What luck was involved for Rielly and Marner?

Players were both available for the Leafs to draft.

 

[ShaneFalco]

At least the Leafs are keeping it professional

 

[CDN24]

Again, you're completely ignoring teams like EDM and BUF who have had nowhere near the success we have with their rebuilds.

I'd also bet a ton that without any drastic moves, we'll win a round before we miss the playoffs. We'll see.

We're better than Buffalo and Edm - put that on a banner in the rafters. Actually one could argue that Edm has had more success - they have been out of the first round.

I actually think that without something drastic (trading one of Matthews/Marner or Nylander) to free up cap space to help on D and add depth this team could very will miss as early as this coming year. A lot will depend on what happens in free agency but...

Fla could be a lot better if they get a goalie
Mtl will be better
Boston Tampa will still be good
Rangers will be better
Devils will be better
Flyers will be better

Only CBJ of last years playoff teams and maybe Carolina or the Isles if they lose Lehner might take a step back.

The right move last year when Tavares signed was to trade Nylander then. Instead the stupid vow to keep all three. He even made it easy to back out of that by holding out. Now maybe Marner has to go which is a shame as IMO he is most impt of the three.

 

[Menzinger]

Protecting the player is the right call from Dubas. He gains nothing by turning Marner or Ferris into a public villain. Theres still time to get a good deal negotiated

Still doesnt hide the fact what Dreger is doing, which is still clear as day.

 

[IBeL34f]

Players were both available for the Leafs to draft.

Eh. So, we were lucky in the same way that we were 'lucky' to be as bad as we were, or that we were 'lucky' that our scouts determined they were the best players available at the time.

 

[diceman934]

I have to respectfully disagree.

I'm not a Dubas fanboi...but the Marner camp said last year they wouldn't negotiate until this year. Knowing Marner was going to play with JT.

Hindsight is always 20/20

Also in hindsight, the Nylander deal is actually not a bad deal. There is also precedent that players holding out generally don't have a great year due to missing camp.... Which I 100% blame the Nylander camp.

Matthews was going to get JT money don't kid yourself... And in context 11.6 is 600k more which isn't even league min for a player.

Also want to point out (pun intended)
Several other major RFA is the exact same spot. THE SAME SPOT.

Point
Rantanen
Aho
Tchuck (you Know who I mean)
Marner
Laine

So all those GM are idiots? Nah man. This is the Game the agents are playing... I wish bull would stop being spewed on media. It's the age we live it.. 100 coverage 24/7 con artists like dreger need to work too.

You are wrong they negotiated last summer when Dubas offered 7.5 x8 and Marner came back at 9m x 8. I would bet money they could of got him for 8.5x 8 now he is not going to sign for max term and even a 3 year term is going to cost more then 8.5per. None of those others RFA are in the same position not one.

Did either of those lead their team in scoring the past two year. Nope. None of those play on a team who leading scorer they out produced and can claim they are better then the team’s best player.
It is not a game but reality Dubas dropped the ball and cost us a lot of cap space. He is the person feeding the media about things that are happening in the negotiations. He started this when he announced Mathews contract when he stated centers get paid more then wingers several times. He has made his bed and now is being forced to lie in it. I called this last summer. The man does not know when to keep his mouth shut.

 

[ACC1224]

Eh. So, we were lucky in the same way that we were 'lucky' to be as bad as we were, or that we were 'lucky' that our scouts determined they were the best players available at the time.

Lucky that other teams didn't realize they were the best players available at the time.

 

[CDN24]

Eh. So, we were lucky in the same way that we were 'lucky' to be as bad as we were, or that we were 'lucky' that our scouts determined they were the best players available at the time.

Lucky that they were not already gone. Marner probably should have been picked 3rd and Rielly should have been top 2 in 2012. What an awful draft class.

 

[diceman934]

Protecting the player is the right call from Dubas. He gains nothing by turning Marner or Ferris into a public villain. Theres still time to get a good deal negotiated

Still doesnt hide the fact what Dreger is doing, which is still clear as day.

He started all the nonsense with his comments when he signed Mathews. He needs to stop with the leaks to the media.

 

[Menzinger]

Prove what?

That jes even remotely close to being the top paid winger in the league.

One 90 point season playing beside a proven top 10 centre in the league isnt enough.

The only winger in modern NHL to be able to demand something like that is Ovechkin, and as much as I love Mitch, he hasnt come close to proving hes worth that.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Lucking in to Rielly, Matthews and Marner helped as well.

Getting Matthews required luck, but it was absolutely the plan, which was a total 180 from the franchise typically.

 

[Joey Hoser]

That jes even remotely close to being the top paid winger in the league.

One 90 point season playing beside a proven top 10 centre in the league isnt enough.

The only winger in modern NHL to be able to demand something like that is Ovechkin, and as much as I love Mitch, he hasnt come close to proving hes worth that.

Agree to disagree I guess. I'm pretty convinced Marner is an elite player, and I'm not sure how anyone can watch him and wonder if he is or not, so I don't know what to tell you.

 

[ACC1224]

Getting Matthews required luck, but it was absolutely the plan, which was a total 180 from the franchise typically.

Yep, a little bit of both

 

[ACC1224]

Agree to disagree I guess. I'm pretty convinced Marner is an elite player, and I'm not sure how anyone can watch him and wonder if he is or not, so I don't know what to tell you.

and the thing is if he continues to play with Tavares year after year, he'll always be looked at as being carried by some.

 

[Canadian Finn]

Sunny, long weekend.
Just did the liquor store run, going to work a few more hours to pay for it and then done until Tuesday.
Summers too short to stare at a screen.

I hope you chose a nice single malt for the occasion

Picked up my favourite, Lagavulin 16 for my Bday night tonight. Ticats game! Oskee Wee Wee!

 

[ACC1224]

I hope you chose a nice single malt for the occasion

Picked up my favourite, Lagavulin 16 for my Bday night tonight. Ticats game! Oskee Wee Wee!

Prefer cold drinks in the summer.
Winter is for whiskey.

 

[Canadian Finn]

Prefer cold drinks in the summer.
Winter is for whiskey.

understood and don't disagree.
Cheers,

 

[Mr Hockey]

and the thing is if he continues to play with Tavares year after year, he'll always be looked at as being carried by some.

I have a feeling we are going to see a more impressive Marner next season, and he will really separate himself from Tavares, imo

 

[ACC1224]

understood and don't disagree.
Cheers,

Happy b'day....hope it's a good one!

Count down is on for me, I've had enough for this week.
Pool and beer beckon.

 

[IBeL34f]

Lucky that other teams didn't realize they were the best players available at the time.

Is that luck, or good scouting on our part?

Is it possible that their development in our revamped system is partially responsible for these players becoming as good as they have?

Lucky that they were not already gone. Marner probably should have been picked 3rd and Rielly should have been top 2 in 2012. What an awful draft class.

Mo played a grand total of 23 games in his draft year - It's easy to say that he should've been #2 when you've got 7 years of hindsight to work off of, but it's not like he was some major faller that had no business lasting to #5.
As for Marner, there was a very real debate about which of Hanifin/Strome/Marner should have gone #3 - Again, it's not like he was a major faller that never should have slipped as far as he did. Some even complained at the time about Hunter targeting a small winger that he was familiar with, rather than grabbing the big D-man Babcock wanted.

 

[ACC1224]

Is that luck, or good scouting on our part?

Is it possible that their development in our revamped system is partially responsible for these players becoming as good as they have?

Mo played a grand total of 23 games in his draft year - It's easy to say that he should've been #2 when you've got 7 years of hindsight to work off of, but it's not like he was some major faller that had no business lasting to #5.
As for Marner, there was a very real debate about which of Hanifin/Strome/Marner should have gone #3 - Again, it's not like he was a major faller that never should have slipped as far as he did. Some even complained at the time about Hunter targeting a small winger that he was familiar with, rather than grabbing the big D-man Babcock wanted.

I don't see how the Leafs scouting has anything to do with other teams passing on the players.