Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part X | Will Mitch get an OS?

[diceman934]

The worst part for me is that this could've played out so many different ways and yet we seem to be on the worst trajectory possible.

We steal JT, a franchise C, from the islanders for nothing but cap space. Good to go.

We then proceed to have a 5 month negotiation with nylander where he holds out for 2 months and we pay him more then he deserves. He comes back and has his worst season yet. Not good.

We then give Matthews the most player friendly deal in the league with zero playoff success, major awards or even an 80 point season. Not good.

We now have marner, who has led the team in scoring for 2 straight years, trying to get Auston money. Not good.

It would be a tough time for any GM to be running this show, let alone a young rookie. KD has really dropped the ball.

No one made him drop the ball. He lacks the necessary skills to be in charge of contract negotiations. His order was wrong as was his ability to understand what waiting was going to cost us in terms of cap space. This past summer Marner would have signed a long term deal. As would Mathews signed long term for less then he signed for shorter term. Focusing on a complimentary player cost us cap space and a better team this year. That is on Dubas as he misread the market.

 

[8816 others]

Is Dreger reporting Panarin at 12 mil in order to push the Leafs to match any offer sheets and drive up Marner's price? Letting Marner go for 4 1sts and using the cap space to sign Panarin becomes a less appealing plan b if Panarin wants just as much or more.

 

[Duffman955]

Prove what?

That he can consistently put up 94+ points and show up in the playoffs

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

If Marner, according to Dreger, is worth more than 12M AVV perhaps he could pump his trade value? Jerk lol

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

There is a limit to growth. The NHL may be at its limit. The cap may fluctuate around this area from now on. Remember what the Rangers were spending when the NHL popped way back when? $85 million. The cap is now 81.5 million, and we're seeing crazy RFA contracts and what feel like untenable situations in general.

The cap came in when the NHL was near death, and it was set at $39 Million. We are 15 years after that now, and the cap is 207% higher.

Do you think that growth continues and the cap will be 169 million in 15 years, or will the NHL have killed itself again? I'm going with the latter.

Or veteran players saw what was happening with RFAs coming off of ELC contracts and have a legitimate fear the balance is shifting to a younger NHL with less money for vets so they voted against using the escalator this year to slow the process.

That's my guess anyway.

 

[Black hat blue eyes]

No one made him drop the ball. He lacks the necessary skills to be in charge of contract negotiations. His order was wrong as was his ability to understand what waiting was going to cost us in terms of cap space. This past summer Marner would have signed a long term deal. As would Mathews signed long term for less then he signed for shorter term. Focusing on a complimentary player cost us cap space and a better team this year. That is on Dubas as he misread the market.

I have to respectfully disagree.

I'm not a Dubas fanboi...but the Marner camp said last year they wouldn't negotiate until this year. Knowing Marner was going to play with JT.

Hindsight is always 20/20

Also in hindsight, the Nylander deal is actually not a bad deal. There is also precedent that players holding out generally don't have a great year due to missing camp.... Which I 100% blame the Nylander camp.

Matthews was going to get JT money don't kid yourself... And in context 11.6 is 600k more which isn't even league min for a player.

Also want to point out (pun intended)
Several other major RFA is the exact same spot. THE SAME SPOT.

Point
Rantanen
Aho
Tchuck (you Know who I mean)
Marner
Laine

So all those GM are idiots? Nah man. This is the Game the agents are playing... I wish bull would stop being spewed on media. It's the age we live it.. 100 coverage 24/7 con artists like dreger need to work too.

 

[egd27]

Hopefully by the time we're all back Tuesday this will be resolved.

Where are we all going til Tuesday ?

We'll be on thread 20 by Tuesday.

 

[Leaf4Life79]

If Marner is meeting with other teams, why don't we meet with other RFA's or UFA's? I have yet to hear anything regarding the leafs being involved in talks with other unsigned players. If he wants to use other teams as leverage, than we can and should do the same right back by approaching big ticket RFA's and UFA's.

Absolutely!

 

[ShaneFalco]

Great Read from The Athletic from Justin Bourne

Mitch Marner isn’t going anywhere via an offer sheet
He’s just not. Sometimes we overthink the hell out of some of these contract disputes because of what players could do. He could sign an offer sheet to play for another team, he could get dealt, he could hold out for an extended period of time. He could also decide to become a hot-air balloon pilot and quit hockey forever, but he’s probably not gonna.

Here’s what I know: Marner isn’t stupid and he has a pretty good idea who butters his bread. And as much as this has been said, it maybe it hasn’t been said enough: Toronto is his Country Crock, it’s his Land O’ Lakes, his Tillamook. He’s not going anywhere by his own choice for an extra million or two a year. To close this opener as it began, he’s just not.

Say the Leafs are trying to give him $9.5 million by six years or something. Can you see any scenario where the Islanders (or whoever) offer him $11.5 by five-ish and Marner thinks that’s actually worth leaving for? Think beyond the business of picks for a sec. Think beyond the leverage factor provided by going on a couple of RFA visits, just think of it from a pure hockey-and-life-going-forward standpoint.

Is Marner really going to sign an offer sheet? He’s going to leave Toronto, a team universally accepted to be among the top tier of teams with a chance to win the Stanley Cup (where he plays nice minutes with great linemates and features as a star) purely for more short-term dollars, setting the bridge back to his home city aflame for the foreseeable future? He’s going to play for the Carolina Hurricanes (or whoever), and come back to Toronto and get booed a handful of times a year, with endorsements and signings around town totaling $600 in yearly revenue paid in Bass Pro Shops dollars?

I’m not trying to disparage any other NHL cities, there’s just no doubt it’d be different. Imagine the fear of leaving and Leafs actually winning the Cupwithout you and think about what could have been. There has to be a five to ten percent chance of that happening, no? This isn’t about this contract, this is about the rest of this guy’s life.

Consider where I’m coming from here. I’ve seen the lives of my own father (Bob Bourne), and that of my father-in-law (Clark Gillies) from the end of their playing days until today. I’ve seen both of them semi-regularly offered card signings for $X per card, with X varying based on the cards, the quantity and whether you get to sign “HoF” after your name or not. I’ve seen appearance fees, speaking fees and paid engagements pop up for years on end, because both guys are Islanders. The fans connect with them, they relate to them and to varying degrees, those two men (and many others) had livelihoods based on what they built with an organization and a region. I mentioned Mitch potentially signing an offer sheet with the Islanders, so I’m obviously aware, there’s a financial life to be had in being a lifelong Islander. Their fans and that region are awesome.

I’m just telling you, because I’ve seen both sides of this, and heard what’s offered to Wendel Clark, Doug Gilmour and the other name players who wore the Maple Leaf: comparing the opportunities between Toronto and most other NHL cities is comparing apples and octopuses. The life you could live after playing out a Hall of Fame career in hockey-mad Toronto would be like having a VIP pass at Disneyland, only Disneyland, in this case, happens to be the entirety of one of the better cities in North America.

This is all about negotiation and the Leafs letting him go through this RFA song and dance is basically just calling his bluff and diminishing his leverage. That the Leafs have made some noise about potentially letting him walk if he does sign an offer sheet should be enough to put the fear of blowing all that into him. The Leafs just do not seem afraid that the player is dumb enough to forfeit the whole What Could Be scenario. He’s not walking away for what could be a couple million a year up front and a tarnished legacy at home. He’s just not.

 

[CDN24]

I legitimately can't tell if this is serious or not.

"What has Shanny done other than hire all of the people who, along with all of the high-end talent we've acquired in his tenure, saw us turn ourselves around from a last-place laughing stock one year into a perennial Playoff team with one of the top young cores in the League the next?"

Let me help you out - it is serious.

Yeah, they have turned the leafs around - there was only one direction to go but did they do anything amazing that could not have been done by any management group that stopped giving away draft picks.
1) Tavares was no stroke of genius just a hometown boy who wanted to come home.
2) Matthews - its hard to screw up the no 1 overall pick in a year with a generational talent.
3) Marner great pick and they picked the right guy but there were a ton of choices almost as good (Hanafin, werenski, Rantannen, Barzel, Chabot0.
4) Nylander in hindsight was probably the wrong pick (ehlers/pasternack larkin also would have been good options.

Pretty much any management team should have Tavares and Matthews and 2 equivilent pieces to Marner and Nylander when you are in rebuild mode with those kind of picks.

So what else have they done that is so great? I don't see a whole lot
2014 Draft yielded Nylander and nothing else
2015 draft yielded Marner and not much else (maybe Dermott) who was picked right before Sebastien Aho
2016 yielded Austin Matthews and not much else so far
2017 and 2018 a bit early to tell but no one has played in NHL yet from leafs picks.

You are obviously not going to hit on every pick but it seems that other than the can't miss picks they have not hit on much under this mgmt team.
They made a great trade to acquire Freddy Anderson but otherwise nothing spectacular. Paid a lot for Muzzin who they might not be able to afford to retain. Blew a 2nd rounder on tomas Pleckanec and another on Brian boyle

They chose to hold on to their own UFAs that they were not re-signing which means guys like Bozak/JVR/Komarov/ walked for nothing- probably soon to be joined by Gardiner.

On the UFA front they got Tavares but that was hardly a stroke of genius- TO is where he wanted to go. They got Marleau but it cost a 1st rounder to get rid of the extra year. Ron Hainsey was a great signing. Zaitsev was a great find but then the messed it up with the contract they gave him.

Overall the body of work under Shanaplan does not impress me much. The great moves/adds/picks would have happened under anyone and the rest is middle of the pack at best. Overall I would say poor asset management, guys walking for nothing and spending 2nd rounders on rentals, a 1st and Durzi on Muzzin is not bad but he did not address the RD need- right move but wrong asset. qa 1st to get out of marleau mistake -ouch.

They got to being top heavy, overpaid stars with no depth pretty quickly. Teams like La/hawks/pens at least won a couple of championships before getting to that point.

 

[kevsh]

The big mistake for the Leafs was not the signing of Tavares, it was not immediately recognizing it would make their cap situation very, very difficult very soon, and then doing nothing to make his life easier.

Going back to last July, Dubas had to expect a big year from Marner with Johnny T. on his line, and that means a big payday. He knew Matthews would be looking for McDavid-ish money. Nylander was coming off back-to-back 60 point seasons. Gardiner was going into his UFA year. Kapanen and Johnsson both RFAs would be in top 9 roles surrounded by elite talent. Oh and that NM Marleau contract with 2 more years on it.

So I have ask, after signing Tavares last Summer, what delusional math did his number crunchers come up with that made him believe he'd be able to keep everyone together? Even most of them?

I'd never argue that bringing in Tavares was a bad idea - a premium talent in his prime and you don't give up any players, picks or prospects to get him is a rare opportunity - it was not dealing with the fallout, immediately. As in, last Summer. Moving Zaitsev and/or Marleau, playing hardball with Nylander (contract signed by training camp or you're getting traded), etc. Not easy, perhaps, but there were moves to be made and it would've been easier than it is now.

Oh and then, in a push to win this past season, he trades away cheap talent that he's going to need (Grundstrom/Durzi) for Muzzin and his $4M cap hit next season.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Let me help you out - it is serious.

Yeah, they have turned the leafs around - there was only one direction to go but did they do anything amazing that could not have been done by any management group that stopped giving away draft picks.
1) Tavares was no stroke of genius just a hometown boy who wanted to come home.
2) Matthews - its hard to screw up the no 1 overall pick in a year with a generational talent.
3) Marner great pick and they picked the right guy but there were a ton of choices almost as good (Hanafin, werenski, Rantannen, Barzel, Chabot0.
4) Nylander in hindsight was probably the wrong pick (ehlers/pasternack larkin also would have been good options.

Pretty much any management team should have Tavares and Matthews and 2 equivilent pieces to Marner and Nylander when you are in rebuild mode with those kind of picks.

So what else have they done that is so great? I don't see a whole lot
2014 Draft yielded Nylander and nothing else
2015 draft yielded Marner and not much else (maybe Dermott) who was picked right before Sebastien Aho
2016 yielded Austin Matthews and not much else so far
2017 and 2018 a bit early to tell but no one has played in NHL yet from leafs picks.

You are obviously not going to hit on every pick but it seems that other than the can't miss picks they have not hit on much under this mgmt team.
They made a great trade to acquire Freddy Anderson but otherwise nothing spectacular. Paid a lot for Muzzin who they might not be able to afford to retain. Blew a 2nd rounder on tomas Pleckanec and another on Brian boyle

They chose to hold on to their own UFAs that they were not re-signing which means guys like Bozak/JVR/Komarov/ walked for nothing- probably soon to be joined by Gardiner.

On the UFA front they got Tavares but that was hardly a stroke of genius- TO is where he wanted to go. They got Marleau but it cost a 1st rounder to get rid of the extra year. Ron Hainsey was a great signing. Zaitsev was a great find but then the messed it up with the contract they gave him.

Overall the body of work under Shanaplan does not impress me much. The great moves/adds/picks would have happened under anyone and the rest is middle of the pack at best. Overall I would say poor asset management, guys walking for nothing and spending 2nd rounders on rentals, a 1st and Durzi on Muzzin is not bad but he did not address the RD need- right move but wrong asset. qa 1st to get out of marleau mistake -ouch.

They got to being top heavy, overpaid stars with no depth pretty quickly. Teams like La/hawks/pens at least won a couple of championships before getting to that point.

Totally disagree with almost all of this. Without even getting into the details, the big picture is that for the first time in about half a century, we have a GM who committed to a full rebuild. You're not impressed by that, hey good for you. Me, I'm thrilled that we're finally headed in the right direction and IMHO, thinking that this "would have happened under anyone" could only be said by someone who has no idea what's gone on here over the last 50 years.

Thank you Mr. Shanahan! We've been clearly heading in the right direction with you at helm, please keep up the good work and stay the course.

 

[Sypher04]

The big mistake for the Leafs was not the signing of Tavares, it was not immediately recognizing it would make their cap situation very, very difficult very soon, and then doing nothing to make his life easier.

Going back to last July, Dubas had to expect a big year from Marner with Johnny T. on his line, and that means a big payday. He knew Matthews would be looking for McDavid-ish money. Nylander was coming off back-to-back 60 point seasons. Gardiner was going into his UFA year. Kapanen and Johnsson both RFAs would be in top 9 roles surrounded by elite talent. Oh and that NM Marleau contract with 2 more years on it.

So I have ask, after signing Tavares last Summer, what delusional math did his number crunchers come up with that made him believe he'd be able to keep everyone together? Even most of them?

I'd never argue that bringing in Tavares was a bad idea - a premium talent in his prime and you don't give up any players, picks or prospects to get him is a rare opportunity - it was not dealing with the fallout, immediately. As in, last Summer. Moving Zaitsev and/or Marleau, playing hardball with Nylander (contract signed by training camp or you're getting traded), etc. Not easy, perhaps, but there were moves to be made and it would've been easier than it is now.

Oh and then, in a push to win this past season, he trades away cheap talent that he's going to need (Grundstrom/Durzi) for Muzzin and his $4M cap hit next season.

I think it'd be naive to think the management didn't consider all of these things before they signed Tavares. And everyone said we needed a defense upgrade, EVERYONE. It's not Dubas' fault, and he certainly could not have predicted the injuries and/or severity of that we then suffered to both Gardiner & Dermott that really sidetracked the plan. (even our depth guys like Rosen and Borgman both got injured for long stretches thereafter)

 

[ACC1224]

Where are we all going til Tuesday ?

We'll be on thread 20 by Tuesday.

Sunny, long weekend.
Just did the liquor store run, going to work a few more hours to pay for it and then done until Tuesday.
Summers too short to stare at a screen.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I think it'd be naive to think the management didn't consider all of these things before they signed Tavares.

As mentioned before, Dubas also met with AM and MM to discuss signing JT. They were all on-board. Obviously if it wasn't mentioned explicitly, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to conclude things would be tight.

 

[unicornpig]

looking at capfriendly dont see how they fit marner in at 10 plus even if they trade zaitsev.

 

[Sypher04]

looking at capfriendly dont see how they fit marner in at 10 plus even if they trade zaitsev.

We will spend to the cap, obviously, so we will be able to overspend by Horton's 5.3m due to him being on LTIR
Plus, I think it's also very clear at this point that Brown will be traded, so we'll probably game somewhere around another 1.25m there once we plug in another body

 

[IBeL34f]

Let me help you out - it is serious.

Yeah, they have turned the leafs around - there was only one direction to go but did they do anything amazing that could not have been done by any management group that stopped giving away draft picks.
1) Tavares was no stroke of genius just a hometown boy who wanted to come home.
2) Matthews - its hard to screw up the no 1 overall pick in a year with a generational talent.
3) Marner great pick and they picked the right guy but there were a ton of choices almost as good (Hanafin, werenski, Rantannen, Barzel, Chabot0.
4) Nylander in hindsight was probably the wrong pick (ehlers/pasternack larkin also would have been good options.

Pretty much any management team should have Tavares and Matthews and 2 equivilent pieces to Marner and Nylander when you are in rebuild mode with those kind of picks.

So what else have they done that is so great? I don't see a whole lot
2014 Draft yielded Nylander and nothing else
2015 draft yielded Marner and not much else (maybe Dermott) who was picked right before Sebastien Aho
2016 yielded Austin Matthews and not much else so far
2017 and 2018 a bit early to tell but no one has played in NHL yet from leafs picks.

You are obviously not going to hit on every pick but it seems that other than the can't miss picks they have not hit on much under this mgmt team.
They made a great trade to acquire Freddy Anderson but otherwise nothing spectacular. Paid a lot for Muzzin who they might not be able to afford to retain. Blew a 2nd rounder on tomas Pleckanec and another on Brian boyle

They chose to hold on to their own UFAs that they were not re-signing which means guys like Bozak/JVR/Komarov/ walked for nothing- probably soon to be joined by Gardiner.

On the UFA front they got Tavares but that was hardly a stroke of genius- TO is where he wanted to go. They got Marleau but it cost a 1st rounder to get rid of the extra year. Ron Hainsey was a great signing. Zaitsev was a great find but then the messed it up with the contract they gave him.

Overall the body of work under Shanaplan does not impress me much. The great moves/adds/picks would have happened under anyone and the rest is middle of the pack at best. Overall I would say poor asset management, guys walking for nothing and spending 2nd rounders on rentals, a 1st and Durzi on Muzzin is not bad but he did not address the RD need- right move but wrong asset. qa 1st to get out of marleau mistake -ouch.

They got to being top heavy, overpaid stars with no depth pretty quickly. Teams like La/hawks/pens at least won a couple of championships before getting to that point.

"Pretty much any management team should have Tavares and Matthews and 2 equivilent pieces to Marner and Nylander when you are in rebuild mode with those kind of picks." - Again, not sure if serious.

The Andersen and Muzzin deals were both great, and there's absolutely nothing to suggest that Tavares coming to Toronto was a foregone conclusion.

Hard to deny that a lot of Lou's moves (Zaitsev/Marleau contracts, trades for Boyle/Plekanec) leave a bitter aftertaste, but bringing in guys like him and Babcock helped create the shift in our organization towards respectability, and, despite 3 1st-Round exits (only 1 of which I believe is truly a legitimate disappointment, and even then...), I think our rebuild has been a resounding success. Dubas has only been around for 1 year, and brought in JT and Muzzin without touching the pieces already in place on our roster, and every single success story (both minor and major, with the exception of Matthews) that we've had at the draft has been a result of a focus on prioritizing skill and IQ above all else, while completely overhauling our scouting and analytics departments.

It's easy to suggest that any team with lots of young, high-end talent should perform as well as the Leafs have, but the truth of the matter is that their turnaround (last place in the League --> perennial Playoff appearances) is fairly unprecedented, and Shanahan and his hires are responsible for that. Teams like Edmonton and Buffalo that have been working on their teams longer than the Leafs have and still haven't achieved these kinds of results.

Patience is required still, but I have no idea how some can't see the massive strides that this organization has taken since Shanahan came on board.

 

[CDN24]

Totally disagree with almost all of this. Without even getting into the details, the big picture is that for the first time in about half a century, we have a GM who committed to a full rebuild. You're not impressed by that, hey good for you. Me, I'm thrilled that we're finally headed in the right direction and IMHO, thinking that this "would have happened under anyone" could only be said by someone who has no idea what's gone on here over the last 50 years.

Thank you Mr. Shanahan! We've been clearly heading in the right direction with you at helm, please keep up the good work and stay the course.

"Pretty much any management team should have Tavares and Matthews and 2 equivilent pieces to Marner and Nylander when you are in rebuild mode with those kind of picks." - Again, not sure if serious.

The Andersen and Muzzin deals were both great, and there's absolutely nothing to suggest that Tavares coming to Toronto was a foregone conclusion.

Hard to deny that a lot of Lou's moves (Zaitsev/Marleau contracts, trades for Boyle/Plekanec) leave a bitter aftertaste, but bringing in guys like him and Babcock helped create the shift in our organization towards respectability, and, despite 3 1st-Round exits (only 1 of which I believe is truly a legitimate disappointment, and even then...), I think our rebuild has been a resounding success. Dubas has only been around for 1 year, and brought in JT and Muzzin without touching the pieces already in place on our roster, and every single success story (both minor and major, with the exception of Matthews) that we've had at the draft has been a result of a focus on prioritizing skill and IQ above all else, while completely overhauling our scouting and analytics departments.

It's easy to suggest that any team with lots of young, high-end talent should perform as well as the Leafs have, but the truth of the matter is that their turnaround (last place in the League --> perennial Playoff appearances) is fairly unprecedented, and Shanahan and his hires are responsible for that. Teams like Edmonton and Buffalo that have been working on their teams longer than the Leafs have and still haven't achieved these kinds of results.

Patience is required still, but I have no idea how some can't see the massive strides that this organization has taken since Shanahan came on board.

I am impressed that they committed to a full rebuild - it was long overdue. Was that Shannahan or ownership? not sure but it doesn't matter. my point is after the committment to the full rebuild there has not been anything done overly impressive that would not have been done by a different mgmt team committed to a full rebuild. You have no 1 pick in matthews year, taking him is a no-brainer. I suppose laine could have been taken. Taking Matthews in that spot is hardly discovering America. Tavares wanted to come home again - pretty much any mgmt group gets that done. The other 2 key pieces were Marner and Nylander, again hardly going out on a limb with top 10 picks.

Lou's moves are under Shanny and part of his plan good or bad. Also KD knew what Marleaus contract was when he took over, his moves until a week ago did little to alleviate that problem.

I don't think the rebuild has been a resounding success. It went from nothing to too much $$ tied up in the top end and no depth without actually winning anything. Unless a drastic move is made (getting rid of one of the big 4 to have the dollars for depth and D) this team will be missing the playoffs before it wins a round.

 

[The Beyonder]

They way I see it, Dubas has to push 6 years. You can't have a free agent year where Matthews, Nylander and him are free agents. It's beyond ridiculous.

 

[MyBudJT]

9.616 x 5
or
10.116x6

 

[93LEAFS]

I am impressed that they committed to a full rebuild - it was long overdue. Was that Shannahan or ownership? not sure but it doesn't matter. my point is after the committment to the full rebuild there has not been anything done overly impressive that would not have been done by a different mgmt team committed to a full rebuild. You have no 1 pick in matthews year, taking him is a no-brainer. I suppose laine could have been taken. Taking Matthews in that spot is hardly discovering America. Tavares wanted to come home again - pretty much any mgmt group gets that done. The other 2 key pieces were Marner and Nylander, again hardly going out on a limb with top 10 picks.

Lou's moves are under Shanny and part of his plan good or bad. Also KD knew what Marleaus contract was when he took over, his moves until a week ago did little to alleviate that problem.

I don't think the rebuild has been a resounding success. It went from nothing to too much $$ tied up in the top end and no depth without actually winning anything. Unless a drastic move is made (getting rid of one of the big 4 to have the dollars for depth and D) this team will be missing the playoffs before it wins a round.

It was most likely Leiweike who got MLSE to put full support behind it, which allowed Shanahan to implement it. Leiweike was key in re-organizing all 3 of MLSE properties. His whole mantra was against being a middling team, and the way to stop that with the Leafs was a full tear-down.

 

[IBeL34f]

I am impressed that they committed to a full rebuild - it was long overdue. Was that Shannahan or ownership? not sure but it doesn't matter. my point is after the committment to the full rebuild there has not been anything done overly impressive that would not have been done by a different mgmt team committed to a full rebuild. You have no 1 pick in matthews year, taking him is a no-brainer. I suppose laine could have been taken. Taking Matthews in that spot is hardly discovering America. Tavares wanted to come home again - pretty much any mgmt group gets that done. The other 2 key pieces were Marner and Nylander, again hardly going out on a limb with top 10 picks.

Lou's moves are under Shanny and part of his plan good or bad. Also KD knew what Marleaus contract was when he took over, his moves until a week ago did little to alleviate that problem.

I don't think the rebuild has been a resounding success. It went from nothing to too much $$ tied up in the top end and no depth without actually winning anything. Unless a drastic move is made (getting rid of one of the big 4 to have the dollars for depth and D) this team will be missing the playoffs before it wins a round.

Good Lord. So, basically, unless Shanahan/Lou/Dubas/Babcock completely re-invented the wheel, you just aren't gonna be impressed. When there's been this much noticeable turnaround and improvement and you're still not happy, eventually you have to realize that your expectations are the problem.

 

[Stamkos4life]

I have to respectfully disagree.

I'm not a Dubas fanboi...but the Marner camp said last year they wouldn't negotiate until this year. Knowing Marner was going to play with JT.

Hindsight is always 20/20

Also in hindsight, the Nylander deal is actually not a bad deal. There is also precedent that players holding out generally don't have a great year due to missing camp.... Which I 100% blame the Nylander camp.

Matthews was going to get JT money don't kid yourself... And in context 11.6 is 600k more which isn't even league min for a player.

Also want to point out (pun intended)
Several other major RFA is the exact same spot. THE SAME SPOT.

Point
Rantanen
Aho
Tchuck (you Know who I mean)
Marner
Laine

So all those GM are idiots? Nah man. This is the Game the agents are playing... I wish bull would stop being spewed on media. It's the age we live it.. 100 coverage 24/7 con artists like dreger need to work too.

Regarding Matthews only getting 600k more then tavares, if auston had gotten 7 years instead of 5, I bet we're looking at 12.5+mil. So really it's not just 600k more.

Strongly disagree about nylander's contract. Using hindsight his contract is even worse! Nylander would probably have more value right now if we had sat him all year! That's bad.

None of the RFA's you mentioned were signed after lesser player(s) that took up valuable cap space (which is what I think the poster meant by KD signing the players in reverse order).

 

[Mr Hockey]

They way I see it, Dubas has to push 6 years. You can't have a free agent year where Matthews, Nylander and him are free agents. It's beyond ridiculous.

6 years will cost an extra 1.5m AAV ... that is how the game is being played in these negotiations