Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VIII | We Waitin'

[Dangles McGavin]

People are getting way too worked up about this. Nobody is going to pay Marner 14mil. It’s BS, and in all likelihood this whole media storm is just posturing. An offer sheet hasn’t gone unmatched since I believe 2007, so there’s really no reason to think it will now. It’s just a big media deal because Marner is on the Leafs.

 

[LaPlante94]

I hate having elite centers. Give me all the wingers

 

[18leafsfan18]

And how did those teams do?

Do tell..

Do some research. You will get a good idea of how it works

 

[kb]

Since Lou left the Leafs have given roughly 50% of the cap to 4 forwards. That is how you get into cap hell. Lou has nothing to do with that now that Marleau is off the books unless you want to ***** about Z's 4.5M cap hit.

Yes....cap hell with good young improving players who didn't get outrageous contracts? Lou on the other hand signed a 38 year old to a bloated contract that is far worse than any Dubas contract - by far. And then 7 years on Zaitsev???
We could trade away the good players if cap compliance beats having good players.

 

[MapleLeafs77]

Would you guys do:

Marner + zaitsev

for

Pesce + hamilton

 

[Deebo]

Because it was 100% coming due to Lou's crappy contracts - no matter who would have been the Leafs GM??

I don't even think that they are in cap hell.

Now that Marleau is gone, they have enough space to sign Marner to a reasonable contract or to a slightly inflated contract if they trade Brown. It will be tight and they will have an imbalanced, forward heavy roster, but they can fit it all in.

Now the trick will be to see how Dubas and management can trade from their deep forward group to address the need to improve the D. It also may not happen to start the year, but since they will have plenty of depth up front with lots of good players signed to reasonable contracts, the will probably have the pieces to do it when the opportunity arises. That would have been easier if they had a 2020 first to trade.

Now, if a team comes along and throws crazy money at him with an offer-sheet, then there might be an issue, but if that happened and they didn't have Tavares on the books, it still might not have been a good idea to match a 12M+ offer sheet.

To me, cap hell would be having a bad team with long term, immovable contracts.

 

[MyBudJT]

Dreger seems to be completely insane

How do we know there are 3 or 4 teams interested? Aren't they now allowed to contact Marner or his camp until tomorrow?

 

[DarkKnight]

No doubt JT is a beast. And no doubt Marner benefited from playing with him. And vice versa.

Marner offered a deal before the season - $9M X 8 years. It was the GM who thought that number was too high and I guess didn't think Marner would have a big season. Otherwise why not sign that deal?

After the amazing second half of the season, then playoffs, then factor in natural growth for a young pro,then factor in playing with a franchise center, you'd have to be pretty stupid to not expect a massive year from Marner. None of this situation is surprising, and that isn't hindsight, these worries were expressed last summer.

 

[BallardEra]

How do we know there are 3 or 4 teams interested? Aren't they now allowed to contact Marner or his camp until tomorrow?

We don't know because we aren't as connected as Dreger is man!

 

[MyBudJT]

We don't know because we aren't as connected as Dreger is man!

Well, I meant Dreger... but okay.

 

[ShaneFalco]

After the amazing second half of the season, then playoffs, then factor in natural growth for a young pro,then factor in playing with a franchise center, you'd have to be pretty stupid to not expect a massive year from Marner. None of this situation is surprising, and that isn't hindsight, these worries were expressed last summer.

No but what is surprising are his demands

 

[Bomber0104]

Do some research. You will get a good idea of how it works

I'm not the one making the claim that having 3 of the most expensive contracts in the league is wise practice, you are.

And your defence in support of that strategy is "other teams must have done it before too, so we're alright"?

Sorry but that's not very convincing.

 

[inthe6ix]

Would you guys do:

Marner + zaitsev

for

Pesce + hamilton

if we couldn't hang onto mitchy, yup

but Carolina would never go for that

 

[biotk]

And someone was the first with 3 players over 5 million

And someone was the first with 3 players over 6 million

And someone was the first with 3 players over 7 million

The cap goes up. If you don't get that salaries increase, you obviously have no clue.

Yes, but the Leafs might be the first team to pay 3 players 11+ million before any other team has paid 3 players what? Has a team ever played 3 players 8 million? The cap goes up, but three salaries at 11+ million and this team is likely not only not a contender, it will be lucky to make the playoffs most years.

 

[biotk]

Would you guys do:

Marner + zaitsev

for

Pesce + hamilton

In a hearbeat - but Carolina will never give Marner the contract he wants. Nor would they be willing to deal with his father.

 

[ToneDog]

Yes....cap hell with good young improving players who didn't get outrageous contracts? Lou on the other hand signed a 38 year old to a bloated contract that is far worse than any Dubas contract - by far. And then 7 years on Zaitsev???
We could trade away the good players if cap compliance beats having good players.

Marleau's third year was bad. Z's contract sucks. Yes, having good players means somebody may need to be sacrificed like the Hawks did Buff, Ladd, Panarin, Bolland, Versteeg, Campbell, Niemi etc. Good problem to have if it comes after you have won something.

 

[pucci2001]

Would you guys do:

Marner + zaitsev

for

Pesce + hamilton

Absolutely not. Marner for Seth Jonoes or he can sit out the season or take an offer sheet.

 

[The CyNick]

People going crazy over Nylander deal how would everyone feel if Mitch signed for $9M for earning 69 points year before? If Mitch took $9M, Nylander's ask would also go up. Hindsight is 20/20. Sure, now $9M looks great but before season started it seemed like A LOT.

I agree that some uninformed people would think $9M x 8 was an overpayment last summer. But then when this past season ended, everyone would have said the GM is a genius.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I'm not the one making the claim that having 3 of the most expensive contracts in the league is wise practice, you are.

And your defence in support of that strategy is "other teams must have done it before too, so we're alright"?

Sorry but that's not very convincing.

I'm not going to go and do the research for someone who has absolutely no clue how the cap system works.

Not worth my time to try to teach you something, go read up and learn something.

 

[kb]

I don't even think that they are in cap hell.

Now that Marleau is gone, they have enough space to sign Marner to a reasonable contract or to a slightly inflated contract if they trade Brown. It will be tight and they will have an imbalanced, forward heavy roster, but they can fit it all in.

Now the trick will be to see how Dubas and management can trade from their deep forward group to address the need to improve the D. It also may not happen to start the year, but since they will have plenty of depth up front with lots of good players signed to reasonable contracts, the will probably have the pieces to do it when the opportunity arises. That would have been easier if they had a 2020 first to trade.

Now, if a team comes along and throws crazy money at him with an offer-sheet, then there might be an issue, but if that happened and they didn't have Tavares on the books, it still might not have been a good idea to match a 12M+ offer sheet.

To me, cap hell would be having a bad team with long term, immovable contracts.

Agreed.

But remember, there is only one agenda for that poster. Dubas has done an excellent job on literally every other signing. and he's openly stated he would rather pay the stars and get creative for the rest. All contracts have value for trading right now. Marleau and Zaitsev never did...they were overpaid complementary players. Which is the one thing a team with an impending cap crunch looming cannot do.

 

[DarkKnight]

If you're using team comparables (Dubie dollars), it's pretty to easy to argue 10 x 5 is fair for Marner, when Matthews got 11.63 x 5. Matthews the superior player, but not by a massive margin, the numbers acknowledge that fact. You can see how his camp sees that as fair using Dubie dollars. I mean reality suggests otherwise, but that doesn't apply here. The precedent has been set, we don't get to go back.

 

[DarkKnight]

No but what is surprising are his demands

Seriously, after the Matthews deal? It's not really shocking-it's madness-but it's the Leafs who set the table.

 

[Advanced stats]

Would you guys do:

Marner + zaitsev

for

Pesce + hamilton

Nope, 100% not.

 

[The Magic Man]

If you acknowledge that compensation is very low for a player of Marner's calibre (and I agree), then why wouldn't the Leafs match it?

The Leafs could match that and get more for Marner literally at the trade deadline of the final year of the contract, plus 5 years of production.

I kinda feel like Dubas is waiting to either sign an offer sheet given to Mitch or accept the compensation. If it's inline with what he wants he will sign it. If it's too high an AAV he will accept the 4 picks.

 

[DarkKnight]

I agree that some uninformed people would think $9M x 8 was an overpayment last summer. But then when this past season ended, everyone would have said the GM is a genius.

Exactly. Every zone entry Willie made this year came with a "what a steal" contract, people just lining up to absolve him. Dubas would look a genius had he signed Marner now.