Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VIII | We Waitin'

[kb]

I wasn't talking about price tags.

Whats wrong with working at McDonalds?

Mitch should try it for this season!

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Lets say Marner gets a 12M OS from Columbus (which I don't think will happen) he likely says guys look I got 10M for Leafs and 5M in sponsor money so you need to be around 14M to play minimum because 1M is likely max amount i can get in sponsors here in football country. So not only do you have to look at AAV you have to look at sponsor money too in that market. Paul is not stupid. and thats why Dubie has said he may not match. because partly he has to clarify for Paul that bud be careful what you look at. again i can't see anyone going toe to toe with Leafs on this one unless it is a stupid offer. could montreal or rangers do it? yes they could. but will they no.

 

[hullsy47]

Dreger

Listen to yourself Darren.
Teams are willing to make Mitch by far the highest paid player in the league? And give up 4 1st round picks? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

dreger is losing it .

 

[Deebo]

Not possible this year. Toronto will be pressed for cap space and won’t be able to afford the inflated year 1 price tag if he’s not there to start the season.

There is no year 1 inflated price tag, that myth needs to die already.

The full year cap hit is higher, but it is prorated down to the days that the player is actually on the roster, which ends up equal to the cap hit in the subsequent years.

Look at the ACCUM HIT Column for Nylander here:

Toronto Maple Leafs Daily Cap Tracker - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

You'll see that it is the same number as years 2-6 of the contract.

 

[Cor]

You just know Dreger is going to be at home tonight, at 11:59, shouting the countdown at midnight like it’s New Years, as his wife yells from the bedroom for him to shut up.


At midnight, with tears of joy in his eyes, he calls Darren Ferris asking what his next tweet should be.

 

[Duke Silver]

There is no year 1 inflated price tag, that myth needs to die already.

The full year cap hit is higher, but it is prorated down to the days that the player is actually on the roster, which ends up equal to the cap hit in the subsequent years.

Look at the ACCUM HIT Column for Nylander here:

Toronto Maple Leafs Daily Cap Tracker - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

You'll see that it is the same number as years 2-6 of the contract.

That's what he's saying. This year we cannot pull a Willy and take on an inflated prorated Year 1 cap hit in order to bring Year 2 onwards down. This contract discussion cannot go into the season, or at least not very far into it.

 

[Deebo]

That's what he's saying. This year we cannot pull a Willy and take on an inflated prorated Year 1 cap hit in order to bring Year 2 onwards down.

The ACTUAL amount that is charged to the cap IS NOT inflated.

The FULL YEAR cap hit is higher, but the amount ACTUALLY charged to cap is the same as years 2-6.

They player isn't on the cap for the FULL YEAR, the amount charged to cap is PRO RATED down to the amount of days he is ACTUALLY on the roster.

Look at the link I posted.

 

[MattySnipes]

Offer sheets are rarely ever done. But the instant Maple Leafs deals expire they are targets of such? C'mon. Media needs to smarten up.

 

[81Leafs50]

whats everyone's thoughts on this offer to Marner? 8 years and 80M??

this is pretty much what I have been saying for a long time. Mitch Marner on a shorter term deal like Matthews is nothing but a 9M player.

Marner Receives an Offer of 8 Years and $80 million

 

[The CyNick]

I've seen every single game this year, and years past. I'm not bashing Marner. He's one of my favourites because of the way he plays. I'm aware of his primary assists, his vision, etc.

I believe JT had a big part to do with Marner's success this past year. Many others feel that way too. Marner improved big time from his 2nd to 3rd year but without JT here for Mitch's 3rd year he does not hit 90+ points take it to the bank.

The team does it's best to improve by adding an elite C, they let you play with him all year. Mitch didn't re-sign for this sole reason because he knew he was gonna hit historic numbers as a Maple Leaf. He does end up hitting career highs everywhere and now the media and his camp are trying to get him paid as if he was playing next to Bozak, not JT.

No doubt JT is a beast. And no doubt Marner benefited from playing with him. And vice versa.

Marner offered a deal before the season - $9M X 8 years. It was the GM who thought that number was too high and I guess didn't think Marner would have a big season. Otherwise why not sign that deal?

 

[kb]

It is time we stop blaming Lou for all our cap troubles.

So they sign Nylander for $6.5 and Matthews for $10.5-11.

Were they free and clear of cap issues by doing that? Or did they still have to fix Lou's horrible signings?

 

[The CyNick]

He sure showed Matt Martin, Patrick Marleau, and Nikita Zaitsev to town on their deals, amirite!?! Def showed them who's boss and what's up over here!

The Marleau deal was fair market value.

The zaitsev deal was way too long, and something I was strongly against. But AAV wise it's fine.

Martin is just an average deal. Was a key part of the Isles 4th line. A team that had a superior season to the leafs.

 

[ToneDog]

So they sign Nylander for $6.5 and Matthews for $10.5-11.

Were they free and clear of cap issues by doing that? Or did they still have to fix Lou's horrible signings?

Marleau's third year had to go. Cost us a first. For every Marleau contract there is a Kadri, Andersen, Rielly contract but let's not focus on that.

 

[ToneDog]

The Marleau deal was fair market value.

The zaitsev deal was way too long, and something I was strongly against. But AAV wise it's fine.

Martin is just an average deal. Was a key part of the Isles 4th line. A team that had a superior season to the leafs.

Lou was glad to take Martin back and it did not cost us a sweetener. It will be interesting to see what Z's contract costs us.

 

[kb]

, how

Dude I was on the Tavares train for a year. At the time I said I would trade Kadri if needed to in order to fit him in. Lou has cost us a 1st to dump Marleau. With Marleau gone, if we are still in cap hell, how is it Lou's fault??

Because it was 100% coming due to Lou's crappy contracts - no matter who would have been the Leafs GM??

 

[MattySnipes]

No doubt JT is a beast. And no doubt Marner benefited from playing with him. And vice versa.

Marner offered a deal before the season - $9M X 8 years. It was the GM who thought that number was too high and I guess didn't think Marner would have a big season. Otherwise why not sign that deal?

People going crazy over Nylander deal how would everyone feel if Mitch signed for $9M for earning 69 points year before? If Mitch took $9M, Nylander's ask would also go up. Hindsight is 20/20. Sure, now $9M looks great but before season started it seemed like A LOT.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Marleau's third year had to go. Cost us a first. For every Marleau contract there is a Kadri, Andersen, Rielly contract but let's not focus on that.

Those contracts became good value with time.

 

[Kiwi]

whats everyone's thoughts on this offer to Marner? 8 years and 80M??

this is pretty much what I have been saying for a long time. Mitch Marner on a shorter term deal like Matthews is nothing but a 9M player.

Marner Receives an Offer of 8 Years and $80 million

It's where the ballpark should be

I'm still of the belief 9.75M×7 is a decent fairish contract for both sides

I wouldn't move off that until I see Marner's name on an actual offersheet either, if there's no offersheet Marner has very little leverage and holding out into the season isn't an option for either side if he wants to play this year

 

[The CyNick]

The word is Matthews initial ask was $14m/8years. I have no doubt that Dubas could have got him with a McDavid contract but for some strange reason Dubas offered him the $11.6/5years instead. Im still baffled on how crappy a contract that is.

As for Marner I wouldn't wan't to lose him either unless a big, youngish 1D (Jones) is coming back. But I also don't want him being the highest paid winger in history on a short/mid term deal either. I'd prefer the 4 magic beans over that scenario.

See when I do my projections, $14M over 8 years is slightly on the high side of what I would expect. So assuming that's what was coming from the matthews camp, you would think a strong negotiator could get him close to the McDavid number.

But this is where the leafs plan confuses me. If they just wanted the best overall deal, they should have done even $13.5M over 8. The downside is that we are more cap crunched in the short term.

If the plan was to get each guy at tune lowest AAV possible, then 3 year deals would have been logical. It still gives you RFA rights on their next deal.

The deal signed had no benefits and the proof is in his hard they are fighting giving marner the same. It's like someone woke up and went ooops that was a huge mistake.

Honestly the matthews contact is THE MOST under reported mistake in leafs history. It's no joke worse than the finger contract.

 

[ToneDog]

Because it was 100% coming due to Lou's crappy contracts - no matter who would have been the Leafs GM??

Since Lou left the Leafs have given roughly 50% of the cap to 4 forwards. That is how you get into cap hell. Lou has nothing to do with that now that Marleau is off the books unless you want to bitch about Z's 4.5M cap hit.

 

[Menzinger]

And someone was the first with 3 players over 5 million

And someone was the first with 3 players over 6 million

And someone was the first with 3 players over 7 million

The cap goes up. If you don't get that salaries increase, you obviously have no clue.

Spot on.

Always amusing when folks dont understand basic things like inflation

 

[kb]

Marleau's third year had to go. Cost us a first. For every Marleau contract there is a Kadri, Andersen, Rielly contract but let's not focus on that.

Kadri getting $4.5 x 6 coming off 45 and 39 point seasons? Rielly with one 30 point season? Andersen never being the de facto #1?

Revisionist history at it's finest. They weren't steals. They were market value at the time.

 

[ToneDog]

Spot on.

Always amusing when folks dont understand basic things like inflation

Problem is Leafs giving 50% of the cap to 4 players (all forwards) and 50% to 19. That has nothing to do with inflation.

 

[ToneDog]

Kadri getting $4.5 x 6 coming off 45 and 39 point seasons? Rielly with one 30 point season? Andersen never being the de facto #1?

Revisionist history at it's finest. They weren't steals. They were market value at the time.

Yup market value. Exactly what we are not paying Willie, Matty and soon Mitch.

 

[DarkKnight]

People going crazy over Nylander deal how would everyone feel if Mitch signed for $9M for earning 69 points year before? If Mitch took $9M, Nylander's ask would also go up. Hindsight is 20/20. Sure, now $9M looks great but before season started it seemed like A LOT.

The thing about the Nylander deal, sentiment around the league was bewilderment it took until the 11th hour to get that player friendly deal, could have been done in the summer. Dubas admitted he slow played the Nylander negotiations, hardly met at all early on. Marner was always going after Nylander, so you sew up Willie then Marner before the season. Even if you gave Willie 7.5 on a longer deal in the summer, you could have got Marner for 8.5-9. The error was not computing letting the horse out of the barn, Marner poised for a big year, then add in JT, I'd bet it all. The lack of urgency, then caving anyways, is what set up this mess.