Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VIII | We Waitin'

[18leafsfan18]

I understand we're the only team with soon to be 3 players making $10+ million.

Interesting strategy, we'll see if it works.

And someone was the first with 3 players over 5 million

And someone was the first with 3 players over 6 million

And someone was the first with 3 players over 7 million

The cap goes up. If you don't get that salaries increase, you obviously have no clue.

 

[ToneDog]

Yeah man, **** kyle for signing a franchise center.

You realize Lou signed PATRICK MARLEAU for 3 years when literally everyone knew that Matthews and Marner would need raises and Marleau would get in the way.

Marleau is off the books. Cost us a first yet we are still in cap hell. How can it be on Lou ???

 

[NiL8r87]

Marleau is off the books. Cost us a first yet we are still in cap hell. How can it be on Lou ???

You're right, we should've just left Tavares alone and gone with Matthews/Kadri as our top 2 C.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Marleau is off the books. Cost us a first yet we are still in cap hell. How can it be on Lou ???

Toronto is supposed to be at the cap. Not sure what you mean, but it's nobody's fault. Zaitsev's contract still needs to go away though

 

[HappyJoy]

When it comes to these topics I don't look at it as a fan, I just look at reason and logic.

I would love the leafs to sign everyone to league minimum, but I don't think that's realistic.

I am not going to bash marner or his Pops for trying to get him a fair deal, even if it hurts the leafs.

I have done the math, and I feel $13-14M is in line with the matthews contract of 11.634 over five years. Given a conservative estimate of where I think the cap will go. So do I want to see that? No, but that's the reality of the situation the GM created. And I don't hate marner for trying to be treated fairly.

What did you think about Nylander during his hold out?

 

[Deebo]

Well were we in cap hell when Lou was here ? We were able to fit Nylander in with 10+ last year. Now we are in cap hell. Do you seriously want to blame Lou for this cap hell because of the Marleau contract ? This is mostly on Kyle.

Nylander's full year cap hit was over 10M, but actual amount charged to the Leafs cap was prorated down to the 6.96M that it will be in years 2-6 because he was only on the roster for 126/186 days.

Look at the ACCUM HIT number on the link for how much Nylander counted against the cap .

Toronto Maple Leafs Daily Cap Tracker - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

It is time we stop blaming Lou for all our cap troubles.

I can't wait for the pro Dubas spins when Aho, Rant,Laine, Point, Tkachuk, etc... all sign for under $10m with 8 year terms while Dubas signs his for well above market value, short term deals.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Lou signed a 35 yr old, injured Mogilny out of the lockout... then sent him to the minors to get out of his deal.

Lou signed Malahkov to a crappy deal, then had to pay a first rounder to get out of his deal (to SJ I believe).

Lou signed a 35 year old Brian Rolston to like 4 or 5 years... then had to get rid of him to Boston.

Lou gave a depth player like Zubrus a 6 yr deal at almost $3.5M when the cap was $50M which amounted to 7%. That's the equivalent to about a $6M deal now for a 3rd liner.

Lou gave Ryane Clowe a 5 year, $4.85M per deal coming off a 3 goal 16 pt season. He scored 8 goals TOTAL for the Devils.


I was petrified and frantic when he came to the Leafs. I had this discussion with my buddies how overrated Lou was. He then signed Matt Martin, Patrick Marleau and Nikita Zaitsev to poor/awful deals.

Lou is an abysmal GM.

ABYSMAL.

Lou Lamoriello has won 3 stanley cups. You can't be "abysmal" and win 3, you can't be that lucky, it doesn't work that way. You also can't ignore the good things he did like trading away Phaneuf, the team friendly contract extensions of Nazem Kadri and Morgan Rielly which are still good for the next 3 seasons. He some how managed to get 2 2nd round picks for Polak and Spalling, which he flipped 1 of them into Freddy Anderson . He signed Hainsey who turned out rather well for the Maple Leafs, giving a veteran presence on the blueline. He also picked up McElhinney to back up Freddie and signed Rosen and Borgman, both of which will likely see extended time in the NHL this up coming season. I'm all for criticizing Lou for the bad decisions he made like the Marleau, Zaitsev and Martin contracts, but lets not pretend he didn't help rebuild this team in a major way and that he only made bad choices. His acquisition of Anderson alone, makes his tenure worth it.

 

[kgboomer]

Marner is going to be the same as Nylander, he won't get signed before the start of the season. We better get used to it, it's going to happen more and more.

 

[Jozay]

To be fair to Lou, no one thought for a second JT would come home at that time. I thought he'd be an Islander for life. So during Lou's time if no JT comes, the Leafs have more than enough for all 3 of 34, 29, 16 as well as accommodating Patty for his 3rd year.

Problem happened when JT went FA. That's when we had to get creative with cap and no longer offer 8-year deals to our ELC stars. Leafs saw a window to be very competitive down the middle for close to a decade and they took it. I'd do it too.

It's been beaten to death but if a player like JT comes to market you scoop him up right away and maneuver around cap after. Core was on board with JT coming along, poor JT didn't know how greedy these kids are though.

JT played his entire career being underpaid and didn't go for money until UFA. What a change in mentality from that generation to this current generation of players.

I agree with everything in your post, but to say 'they shouldnt have signed the JT deal' like ToneDog did is absurd. Like out of the Marleau, Zaitsev and Tavares deals, this guy said they shouldn't have signed the Tavares one

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I can't wait for the pro Dubas spins when Aho, Rant,Laine, Point, Tkachuk, etc... all sign for under $10m with 8 year terms while Dubas signs his for well above market value, short term deals.

I don't think Aho or Point will be with their teams next season if rumors are true but I will wait to see it with my own eyes ... this is the silly season when people talk up a big game ... i even bet a Leafs guy a meal and drinks Rangers would not sign Point for 13M for 8 years today ... if either of those guys or marner goes it will be for 10.67+ exact or whatever that number is

 

[Jozay]

Marleau is off the books. Cost us a first yet we are still in cap hell. How can it be on Lou ???

How is it cap hell when you're paying elite players?

The Oilers are in cap hell, the Leafs are not.

 

[StevenB]

Lou signed a 35 yr old, injured Mogilny out of the lockout... then sent him to the minors to get out of his deal.

Lou signed Malahkov to a crappy deal, then had to pay a first rounder to get out of his deal (to SJ I believe).

Lou signed a 35 year old Brian Rolston to like 4 or 5 years... then had to get rid of him to Boston.

Lou gave a depth player like Zubrus a 6 yr deal at almost $3.5M when the cap was $50M which amounted to 7%. That's the equivalent to about a $6M deal now for a 3rd liner.

Lou gave Ryane Clowe a 5 year, $4.85M per deal coming off a 3 goal 16 pt season. He scored 8 goals TOTAL for the Devils.


I was petrified and frantic when he came to the Leafs. I had this discussion with my buddies how overrated Lou was. He then signed Matt Martin, Patrick Marleau and Nikita Zaitsev to poor/awful deals.

Lou is an abysmal GM.

ABYSMAL.

But he brings discipline to the team and doesn’t let them have facial hair. That has to count for something right?

 

[Nithoniniel]

If you want to have some of the best young talent in the league and take advantage of a 'once in a lifetime'-opportunity to acquire elite talent, you are going to have cap problems. It's where we should be. To solve this, you can't have cap dollars tied up where you don't get good value, based on quality and rarity of on-ice impact. Our only true problems in that area was Marleau and Zaitsev. Unless you believe that Nylander will never regain his form.

Nothing else is a problem, or someone's fault.

I can't wait for the pro Dubas spins when Aho, Rant,Laine, Point, Tkachuk, etc... all sign for under $10m with 8 year terms while Dubas signs his for well above market value, short term deals.

I mostly find it interesting that you sit here fantasizing about hypotheticals that are bad for the Leafs solely because it makes Dubas look bad.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

How is it cap hell when you're paying elite players?

The Oilers are in cap hell, the Leafs are not.

Yes we are. Once Marner, AJ and Kappy sign we might have 2.3M left for 4 roster spots. If that is not CAP hell what is?

 

[ToneDog]

Toronto is supposed to be at the cap. Not sure what you mean, but it's nobody's fault. Zaitsev's contract still needs to go away though

All I am saying is that if we are in cap hell now (trying to sign Marner), Lou has nothing to do with it now that Marleau is off the books. That third year cost us a first.

 

[Jozay]

Yes we are. Once Marner, AJ and Kappy sign we might have 2.3M left for 4 roster spots. If that is not CAP hell what is?

Umm, maybe being pressed up against the cap with a bad team??

People have completely lost the plot.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

If we lose Marner to an offersheet because of Tavares we essentially traded Marner for Tavares and 4 unprotected firsts. That's a deal I think every GM would take. If you want to argue we lost a first we traded Marner and protected first.

Getting Tavares is the furthest thing possible from a mistake, even if we lose Marner.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Marner is going to be the same as Nylander, he won't get signed before the start of the season. We better get used to it, it's going to happen more and more.

Not possible this year. Toronto will be pressed for cap space and won’t be able to afford the inflated year 1 price tag if he’s not there to start the season.

 

[ToneDog]

I can't wait for the pro Dubas spins when Aho, Rant,Laine, Point, Tkachuk, etc... all sign for under $10m with 8 year terms while Dubas signs his for well above market value, short term deals.

Dubas has backed himself into a corner and there is no easy way out. Budget teams would laugh at Marner's ask but because Dubas is the GM of the Leafs and he has given in to Nylander and Matthews, he is in tough with Marner. I honestly hope he can get a good deal done so that he does not continue to be labelled.

 

[kb]

I heard that today at MC from a few people. Speculation is Rangers strongly considering a 13M 8 year deal for Point to make him highest paid player in league. It is not a Marner rumor. But I don't believe it. It seems far fetched to me. I can't see anyone giving up 4 1sts for either Marner or Point.

Odd how they would want the C before the RW.

I truly hope Mitch's entourage doesn't take this as yet another sign of disrespect.

 

[kgboomer]

Not possible this year. Toronto will be pressed for cap space and won’t be able to afford the inflated year 1 price tag if he’s not there to start the season.

Oh, I don't think it's going to go all the way to Dec... more like missing a game or a few of them. I certainly don't expect him at training camp.

 

[m1ker]

I would of traded Marner for Tavares anyways. Had Marner not played with Tavares this year, leafs would of barely made the playoffs and he wouldn't be asking for this much money

 

[ACC1224]

Oh, I don't think it's going to go all the way to Dec... more like missing a game or a few of them. I certainly don't expect him at training camp.

This will be resolved one way or another long before camps open.

 

[Bomber0104]

And someone was the first with 3 players over 5 million

And someone was the first with 3 players over 6 million

And someone was the first with 3 players over 7 million

The cap goes up. If you don't get that salaries increase, you obviously have no clue.

And how did those teams do?

Do tell..