Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VIII | We Waitin'

[Menzinger]

The mere suggestion of a team giving Marner 14 million dollars, making him the highest paid maker in history is beyond laughable.

Would love to see Dreger lose whatever shred of credibility he had left after this sad shilling hes been doing. At least other journalists are flat out calling him out on it in public now

 

[Menzinger]

Some coaches have given him that kind of praise to be honest. Honestly, I think Marner might have a better reputation around the league than he does by our fanbase.

Kid is a star.

Hes a star and deserves to be paid as such. But that doesnt mean he deserves a blank cheque because he happens to be a local kid who plays well.

Hes a winger and an RFA, not a top 10 C.

 

[MyBudJT]

Hes a star and deserves to be paid as such. But that doesnt mean he deserves a blank cheque because he happens to be a local kid who plays well.

Hes a winger and an RFA, not a top 10 C.

What does this ahve to do with my post?

 

[Menzinger]

Who are the people saying this and why would anyone listen to them?

There have been a few vocal voices on these boards who have claimed JT was a huge mistake by Dubas in recent threads (somebody even complaining that JTs contract was buyout proof)

Personally I think such a POV is insane, but to each their own.

 

[Menzinger]

What does this ahve to do with my post?

Youre suggesting Leafs fans don't appreciate Marner.

Everyone here loves the kid but some dont think hes the best winger in the league, which to others seemingly comes across as an insult.

 

[MattySnipes]

Marner draws more attention from defenders with the puck.

I should send you my reel of Tavares goals this year. A crazy amount were tap ins to a wide open cage the result of either a primary or secondary pass that marner facilitated.

Don't get me wrong, I want to have both together, and they are born important, but marner is the engine.

I've seen every single game this year, and years past. I'm not bashing Marner. He's one of my favourites because of the way he plays. I'm aware of his primary assists, his vision, etc.

I believe JT had a big part to do with Marner's success this past year. Many others feel that way too. Marner improved big time from his 2nd to 3rd year but without JT here for Mitch's 3rd year he does not hit 90+ points take it to the bank.

The team does it's best to improve by adding an elite C, they let you play with him all year. Mitch didn't re-sign for this sole reason because he knew he was gonna hit historic numbers as a Maple Leaf. He does end up hitting career highs everywhere and now the media and his camp are trying to get him paid as if he was playing next to Bozak, not JT.

 

[hamzarocks]

The mere suggestion of a team giving Marner 14 million dollars, making him the highest paid maker in history is beyond laughable.

Would love to see Dreger lose whatever shred of credibility he had left after this sad shilling hes been doing. At least other journalists are flat out calling him out on it in public now

It's a deal that makes no sense in any level. Atleast putting out that Marner wont take a dollar less than Matthews(though I find it hard to believe that Marner is that driven by jealousy to not budge from a bad deal and leave his hometown team). 14 million is what Matthews wanted on a 8 year deal. Marner asking for that on a 5 year deal would kill all teams interest in him and he would have no ooffersheet "threat" over the leafs. He would simply see himself get embarrassed and have to sign for a discounted deal due to the backlash.

Dreger is making shit up

 

[MyBudJT]

Youre suggesting Leafs fans don't appreciate Marner.

Everyone here loves the kid but some dont think hes the best winger in the league, which to others seemingly comes across as an insult.

Okay, but I wasn't discussing anything about pay or "giving him a blank cheque'.

 

[The CyNick]

It is so easy for posters to suggest they wouldn't have signed Mathews to his deal. Do you think Dubas wouldn't have preferred 8 million? What leverage did Dubas have ? Can you imagine if Dubas let Mathews get to this point ? He would be getting roasted. Arizona would have likely come after him hard. In that specific case, you could argue Mathews could mean more to that team trying to be relevant and survive than any other player in the league. Marner is good, but he isn't going to go somewhere to help save a franchise. Like it or not, Dubas chose the lesser of two evils. Posters make it sound so easy. Mathews had all the leverage. Thankfully he enjoys playing in Toronto, so they came to a compromise.

The players in this market will always have the leverage because our management don't act like bosses. Well sorry, Lou did, but most don't.

I don't know what matthews was looking for over 8 years. Anything under $13M I would have been fine with.

I just can't tell what their strategy was. If they were trying to lower the AAV as much as possible, they should have went with the $9M X 3 that the matthews camp proposed. Matthews would have still been an RFA after that. The term and AAV they chose just seems like the worst of all worlds. Other than a 4 year deal.

I feel you, like Dubas are betting against Marner. I think he's the guy on the roster who has the most will to win. More than matthews, even more than Tavares. I wouldn't want to lose him for a pile of magic beans.

 

[Menzinger]

$10M6Y is not a great contract, but I would have no problem with it. As with the others, if there is an overpayment it's rather inconsequential, and if there is anyone on the team I'd overpay a bit it's Marner. For one, I'd much rather give an irreplaceable player $500K extra than see it go to the depth. And as the market is construed, star players and wingers don't get paid what they deserve. Might not be a good market contract, but it would provide good value.

Yep.

You grit your teeth and pay it.

But you then have s long hard think about the player and his relarionship worh the organization and potentially think about a trade in the next year or two.

I still dont expect that to happen. No team is going to offer a contract that the Leafs would match, and despite how some people here pretend GMs dont use offersheets to screw over other teams because the reverberations of the offersheets turn the RFA market upside down for everyone. Its essentially a form of tacit collusion by GMa

 

[Deebo]

It is so easy for posters to suggest they wouldn't have signed Mathews to his deal. Do you think Dubas wouldn't have preferred 8 million? What leverage did Dubas have ? Can you imagine if Dubas let Mathews get to this point ? He would be getting roasted. Arizona would have likely come after him hard. In that specific case, you could argue Mathews could mean more to that team trying to be relevant and survive than any other player in the league. Marner is good, but he isn't going to go somewhere to help save a franchise. Like it or not, Dubas chose the lesser of two evils. Posters make it sound so easy. Mathews had all the leverage. Thankfully he enjoys playing in Toronto, so they came to a compromise.

Yeah, I think with Matthews, there was a real chance of an offer sheet and Dubas had to choose between:

Agreeing to the AAV for 5 years that he did,
Possibly a 3 year with a lower AAV was an available option
Letting it go to the summer and end up having to choose between a 4 first rounders or matching a potential offer sheet with worse terms than the 11.6 he signed.

I could see the argument for option 2 if it was available, but not signing him before the deadline would have the worst choice by a wide margin.

 

[Erndog]

The players in this market will always have the leverage because our management don't act like bosses. Well sorry, Lou did, but most don't..

He sure showed Matt Martin, Patrick Marleau, and Nikita Zaitsev to town on their deals, amirite!?! Def showed them who's boss and what's up over here!

 

[Menzinger]

It's a deal that makes no sense in any level. Atleast putting out that Marner wont take a dollar less than Matthews(though I find it hard to believe that Marner is that driven by jealousy to not budge from a bad deal and leave his hometown team). 14 million is what Matthews wanted on a 8 year deal. Marner asking for that on a 5 year deal would kill all teams interest in him and he would have no ooffersheet "threat" over the leafs. He would simply see himself get embarrassed and have to sign for a discounted deal due to the backlash.

Dreger is making **** up

I fully expect him the day before Free agency to suggest Marner is considering a 1x15 or something like that.

 

[scotian1]

Sadly if Marner gets his asking price that means approx. 40% of the salary cap is with just three players, if you add Nylander as a fourth that is around 50% of the cap. I would think that to build a Stanley Cup winner with just 50% to be divided among the other players is not going to produce that winner.

 

[MattySnipes]

He sure showed Matt Martin, Patrick Marleau, and Nikita Zaitsev to town on their deals, amirite!?! Def showed them who's boss and what's up over here!

This whole perception that Lou is the godfather, he knows how to negotiate and everyone is scared of him is such a pile of shit. He made some good deals in Naz (his value was low at time), and Rielly. But he also made bad ones in Martin, Marleau, Z.

It's almost like GMs are human and will make mistakes here and there. This whole anti-Dubas thing is pathetic.

P.S. Be prepared to hear that Dubas, even though he wasn't GM at time had a part to do with Z and Marleau deals, thus protecting and maintaining the Godfather's image.

 

[Menzinger]

This Islanders never made sense to me. Are they going to overpay Marner to get him to sign and then try and get Barzal to take less?

Its why the offersheet is a joke of a threat.

Most of the alleged candidates all have their own high priced RFAs.

If Lou were to try and sign Marner to an absurd contract hed be forced to offer Barzal the exact same deal.

 

[ToneDog]

He sure showed Matt Martin, Patrick Marleau, and Nikita Zaitsev to town on their deals, amirite!?! Def showed them who's boss and what's up over here!

Don't recall being in cap hell when Lou was boss.

 

[Menzinger]

Don't recall being in cap hell when Lou was boss.

He made those deals knowing they'd still be on the books with Matthew's and Marner and Nylander needing new contracts.

Long term cap planning is a prime job for a GM

 

[ImpartialNHLfan]

The players in this market will always have the leverage because our management don't act like bosses. Well sorry, Lou did, but most don't.

I don't know what matthews was looking for over 8 years. Anything under $13M I would have been fine with.

I just can't tell what their strategy was. If they were trying to lower the AAV as much as possible, they should have went with the $9M X 3 that the matthews camp proposed. Matthews would have still been an RFA after that. The term and AAV they chose just seems like the worst of all worlds. Other than a 4 year deal.

I feel you, like Dubas are betting against Marner. I think he's the guy on the roster who has the most will to win. More than matthews, even more than Tavares. I wouldn't want to lose him for a pile of magic beans.

The word is Matthews initial ask was $14m/8years. I have no doubt that Dubas could have got him with a McDavid contract but for some strange reason Dubas offered him the $11.6/5years instead. Im still baffled on how crappy a contract that is.

As for Marner I wouldn't wan't to lose him either unless a big, youngish 1D (Jones) is coming back. But I also don't want him being the highest paid winger in history on a short/mid term deal either. I'd prefer the 4 magic beans over that scenario.

 

[hamzarocks]

There is only one team who imo has the ability to make a offersheet and retain its internal rfa structure. That is the avalanche. They can give 12-12.5 to both rantanen and marner and still have 15ish mill left for compher, zadarov, and upgrade the center position via trade. Honestly the avalanche would be fools not to throw an offersheet and see if marner bites.

They do have stuff against them. They are far away from home for 16. His parents wont catch his games often. He also is gonna be 3rd/4th guy in the pecking order there vs a potential 1a/1b with 34 moving forward. He will lose out in advertisement money too. If he is willing to accept that than hed be a amazing fit there.

Besides them teams like canes, isles, nucks, just dobt serve as a valid threat. They're own RFAs wont sign for less than 16and getting 16 would take a major overpayment via offersheet

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Don't recall being in cap hell when Lou was boss.

Probably because our best players were all on ELCs

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

This would be ideal. There is no option of matching 13 or 14 x5. Makes it super easy for management to take the picks and for the fanbase to understand that it was the right decision.

I don't believe a word of that. I'm starting to believe now that Dreger really is on the Paul Marner payroll. He's starting to sound like the Iraqi Information Minister. Gimme a break. $14M + 4 1st round picks? LOL

 

[Jozay]

Don't recall being in cap hell when Lou was boss.

You cant be serious with this post...

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Don't recall being in cap hell when Lou was boss.

You don't think that maybe the fact that Nylander, Matthews and Marner were on entry level contracts might be a factor there?

 

[ToneDog]

He made those deals knowing they'd still be on the books with Matthew's and Marner and Nylander needing new contracts.

Long term cap planning is a prime job for a GM

We do not know where we would be cap wise if Lou had stayed. What we do know is that Dubas has been here all along and he is the GM that has gotten us where we are now. He said we could and we will. He did not say anything about fumbling the ball.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Who are the people saying this and why would anyone listen to them?

Literally 10 people have said it on these boards in the past week and that's just what I've seen with a casual perusing. They are clueless of course, there's no feasible way you can call it a mistake. We could unload Tavares TODAY for pretty much any asking price. How is having a valuable asset a mistake?