Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VIII | We Waitin'

[DarkKnight]

Turns out, you only need 4 of the next 5 years to do it. So really, we can do a max offersheet if we wanted.

Didn’t know that, thanks.

 

[DarkKnight]

Its not The $$$$/rate its the term that is the problem.

It drives me crazy how people omit the term with Matthews and Nylander, it’s the UFA years that you buy up that historically drive up the average. Matthews deal is farcical given he’s back on the market at 26.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Also lets let's remember Jake Gardiner, leads kind of wanted him back, but again cant do a thing until Mitch is done this is going to be done sooner rather than later

unless we move Zaitsev and get a good deal on Marner, I don't see Gardiner being in the cards

 

[KPower]

Didn’t know that, thanks.

im sure it’s been posted but you can play around with offersheets and see who can actually pull the trigger.

Offer Sheet Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[The CyNick]

More made up facts. Huge surprise.

Marner does not compare to Matthews, How can people not get that ?

More points, makes all the games, plays in all situations. The only tangible thing matthews has on him is goals.

I could see a scenario where matthews ends up with more. But not the difference that's on the table right now. Matthews shouldn't get away with a five year deal and marner have to eat an eight year deal. Unless the 8 year deal is in the $13-14M range.

 

[Heisen]

Matthews deal is farcical given he’s back on the market at 26.

He doesn't want to stay here beyond that, and is absolutely good enough to get sweetheart terms on an offer sheet... so what would you have done, forced him to the KHL?

 

[The CyNick]

I have already proposed trades. Marner for Manson and Comtois (plus a pick or prospect - although I would do the trade without any add). Would Anaheim agree to it? Beats me, but as I had there are many examples and you only need one to work. Toronto is currently lacking RHD, and their LW is far weaker than their RW. Anaheim is currently lacking on the RW far more than the LW. They still have decent D depth.

Anaheim has cap space with no one left to sign. They need offense really bad - no one on the team hit 50 points last year. They also don't have much on the RW after Rakell. They just bought out RW Perry. They wouldn't want to lose Manson, but they would still have Lindholm, Fowler, Larrson, Guhle and Megna. Plenty of young D looking for an opportunity. Still, they don't have the same D depth they had when they still had Montour and Theodore.

Manson still has 3 years left on his contract. 4.1M per season. Big very physical RHD, who is excellent at preventing zone entries and controlled zone exits. Comtois is a young physical (27 hits in 10 NHL games) LW who has two years left in his ELC.

5M between the two of them. Frees up about 6M. Good for Toronto - who has offensive stars, but lacks depth and cap space. I think it would be good for Anaheim who has depth and cap space, but lacks offensive stars.

To me that's an awful return. But each to their own.

 

[18leafsfan18]

It drives me crazy how people omit the term with Matthews and Nylander, it’s the UFA years that you buy up that historically drive up the average. Matthews deal is farcical given he’s back on the market at 26.

It's also the giant contracts that have too many years on them that bury teams into the ground. Yes, he didn't sign for as many years, but his cap hit is right where it should be.

What if the cap happens to go down in the future or doesn't grow how its expected ? Many many things can change in 5 years.

Matthews is a special talent, If you could start a team today with any player in the world is Matthews not in your top 3 picks all things considered (age, ability, etc.) ?

 

[MattySnipes]

So centers should only be paid more than wingers when they are Matthews? Just trying to follow the logic you're working with here.

No I didn't say that. Centres should be paid more because they have more responsibilities and do more on the ice. Now if it's also a goal-scoring centre like Auston, then yes he should be paid more. Goals are rarer than assists, harder to score and as @Dekes For Days mentions, are not as dependent on teammates. If said centre checks off these boxes, yes they should be paid more.

 

[HappyJoy]

More points, makes all the games, plays in all situations. The only tangible thing matthews has on him is goals.

I could see a scenario where matthews ends up with more. But not the difference that's on the table right now. Matthews shouldn't get away with a five year deal and marner have to eat an eight year deal. Unless the 8 year deal is in the $13-14M range.

I dont get it, are you ok with him getting a 13-14M AAV? You realize that it would be very difficult to improve the team with almost 37 M allocated to 3 players if Marner got 14 for example.

Are you a fan of the leafs or Marner?

 

[The Magic Man]

So Marners camp has leaked (apparently) that 10x5 is what he wants.

There will be at least a half dozen offer sheets tendered to him at 10.5x5. Who's to say if he signs it but we're in a tough spot to accept that with Rielly needing a deal done before that ends, not to mention Matthews.

Understand leaf fans, that at 10.5, we only get 2 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd. Small price to pay for Mitch if you have the space.

Personally I'd have 1 more sit down with him and very clear that I'm moving on of he doesn't sign.

 

[18leafsfan18]

More points, makes all the games, plays in all situations. The only tangible thing matthews has on him is goals.

I could see a scenario where matthews ends up with more. But not the difference that's on the table right now. Matthews shouldn't get away with a five year deal and marner have to eat an eight year deal. Unless the 8 year deal is in the $13-14M range.

Makes all the games ? what a stupid way to put an injury.

Matthews has more points per game (which is the stat that makes way more sense) and is a C. Talk about an apples to oranges comparison.

Marner will likely see pretty soon that his value is much lower then he assumes, and if it isn't the Leafs can't afford him anyway, so they will take the picks.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

JT signed for 2.5m more than Stamkos and it was spun that he took a team friendly deal and the SS contract wasn't a comparable because there's no state tax in Florida .

now i keep hearing MM can't sign for more than Kuch and the state tax argument is ignored

i agree we should have made it a priority to get the players to sign for at worst market level deals and not set the bar higher but that precedent should have started at the beginning with Tavares and not at the end with MM

Dube should have slapped a front loaded 9.5m x 7yrs plus endorsements contract on the table and told JT this is how high we could go since we have some huge deals coming up and let him decide if he wanted to come home to play . Instead he signed JT to the second highest cap hit in the NHL and M&M are using that deal as an internal comparable .

Dube should have also made signing the 3 kids a priority last summer instead of wasting time pimping himself with how smart he was by hiring women and spewing some non sense about how he did a blind hiring process to get to a short list before he decided to hire a woman as an area scout among other things .

not arguing everything here but...the state tax thing is not the strongest argument...yeah State Tax is better in Tampa but endorsements in Toronto would dwarf endorsement opportunities in Tampa...only reason it isn't strong is because it's easily put aside by the endorsements argument lol

 

[Alerion]

So Marners camp has leaked (apparently) that 10x5 is what he wants.

There will be at least a half dozen offer sheets tendered to him at 10.5x5. Who's to say if he signs it but we're in a tough spot to accept that with Rielly needing a deal done before that ends, not to mention Matthews.

Understand leaf fans, that at 10.5, we only get 2 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd. Small price to pay for Mitch if you have the space.

Personally I'd have 1 more sit down with him and very clear that I'm moving on of he doesn't sign.

Marching Marner to UFA alongside Nylander and Matthews will be a non-starter for the Leafs, I don't get why the 5 year term keeps being proposed. 10.5x5 is pretty hideous and I believe the Leafs would match it because of the poorer compensation, but it would also result in a lot of Mitch Marner trade talks down the road IMO.

 

[ACC1224]

Marching Marner to UFA alongside Nylander and Matthews will be a non-starter for the Leafs, I don't get why the 5 year term keeps being proposed. 10.5x5 is pretty hideous and I believe the Leafs would match it because of the poorer compensation, but it would also result in a lot of Mitch Marner trade talks down the road IMO.

Possibly him or one of the other two.

 

[The CyNick]

I dont get it, are you ok with him getting a 13-14M AAV? You realize that it would be very difficult to improve the team with almost 37 M allocated to 3 players if Marner got 14 for example.

Are you a fan of the leafs or Marner?

When it comes to these topics I don't look at it as a fan, I just look at reason and logic.

I would love the leafs to sign everyone to league minimum, but I don't think that's realistic.

I am not going to bash marner or his Pops for trying to get him a fair deal, even if it hurts the leafs.

I have done the math, and I feel $13-14M is in line with the matthews contract of 11.634 over five years. Given a conservative estimate of where I think the cap will go. So do I want to see that? No, but that's the reality of the situation the GM created. And I don't hate marner for trying to be treated fairly.

 

[The CyNick]

Makes all the games ? what a stupid way to put an injury.

Matthews has more points per game (which is the stat that makes way more sense) and is a C. Talk about an apples to oranges comparison.

Marner will likely see pretty soon that his value is much lower then he assumes, and if it isn't the Leafs can't afford him anyway, so they will take the picks.

Do teams get credit for goals that would have been scored if their team is healthy?

Making the dates matters. An injury prone player is a problem.

 

[The CyNick]

No I didn't say that. Centres should be paid more because they have more responsibilities and do more on the ice. Now if it's also a goal-scoring centre like Auston, then yes he should be paid more. Goals are rarer than assists, harder to score and as @Dekes For Days mentions, are not as dependent on teammates. If said centre checks off these boxes, yes they should be paid more.

Marner drives his line from the wing. How does that factor in? BTW that's not from some stat I read, that's from watching games.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Do teams get credit for goals that would have been scored if their team is healthy?

Making the dates matters. An injury prone player is a problem.

Is McDavid and Eichel injury prone ? I assume most would say no.

Matthews played more games over his ELC then both of those players. This injury prone stuff is nonsense. No team pays a player based on them assuming he will be injured going forward.

These types of post are the exact reason people can't stand your "facts" on this board. You purposely use facts that are 1 sided and totally ignore everything else.

 

[realgoodleafs]

So Marners camp has leaked (apparently) that 10x5 is what he wants.

There will be at least a half dozen offer sheets tendered to him at 10.5x5. Who's to say if he signs it but we're in a tough spot to accept that with Rielly needing a deal done before that ends, not to mention Matthews.

Understand leaf fans, that at 10.5, we only get 2 1sts a 2nd and a 3rd. Small price to pay for Mitch if you have the space.

Personally I'd have 1 more sit down with him and very clear that I'm moving on of he doesn't sign.

Uhh where do you get this half a dozen number?

 

[Gary Nylund]

When it comes to these topics I don't look at it as a fan, I just look at reason and logic.

I would love the leafs to sign everyone to league minimum, but I don't think that's realistic.

I am not going to bash marner or his Pops for trying to get him a fair deal, even if it hurts the leafs.

I have done the math, and I feel $13-14M is in line with the matthews contract of 11.634 over five years. Given a conservative estimate of where I think the cap will go. So do I want to see that? No, but that's the reality of the situation the GM created. And I don't hate marner for trying to be treated fairly.

Just stop dude, you're killing me.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Uhh where do you get this half a dozen number?

I was wondering about that as well.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The replies to Dreger on Twitter are hilarious! "Ok Paul", "Sure Paul", "Say hi to Paul" etc etc

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Dreger seems to be completely insane

 

[ShaneFalco]

I was wondering about that as well.

Dreger lol