Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VIII | We Waitin'

[JayfromNB1219]

I'd like to know why message board hockey fans think wingers who have 110 point potential are worthless.

Muzzin was acquired for essentially the equivalent of two firsts. Would you trade two Muzzins plus say another first for marner? I would, every day of the week.

If I were a contender I would trade five 1sts without hesitation for Marner.

Skill is hard to come by. Remember that. It's a valuable lesson.

nobody said worthless bud...in fact any leaf fan knows how important Marner is (Winger or not) but just because he is important doesn't mean we can and should overpay the guy...he wants more than KUCHEROV let that sink in for a moment...I hope it's just his agent being a twit personally as I really like Marner, but if he wants to play that game knowing full well where the leafs are in concern to the cap then I will gladly swallow my pride take the 4 1st's and say good riddance

Isn't it about time Toronto really made it about the name on the front of the jersey and not the one on the back (and if players don't like it they can bugger off to wherever we trade them) no accomplishments just yet and paying for a promise is always a tricky move...what if he god forbid breaks his ankle this summer and is never the same again...

 

[Kamiccolo]

Dubas doesn't really strike me as that kind of person. In your example, the Islanders sheet Mitch and we let him go, why would we retaliate against another team that didn't do anything to us? It just seems unlikely to me.

Well according to this interview

One-on-one with Leafs GM Kyle Dubas: On Babcock, offer...

Q: Going back to some of those players. Were you fearful at all over the summer of an offer sheet for William Nylander?

A: I wouldn’t say fearful. I think an offer sheet is a mechanism of the collective bargaining agreement. It’s something that any team that has the requisite salary cap space and draft pick capital can use to procure a player from another team. With our situation, I think there’s two ways of looking at it. There’s the fear — not a fear, but there’s the chance that, hey, an offer sheet can come. Can we match it? And the answer, this summer and next summer, will be yes we can match it. So if a team wants to use that mechanism to competitively try to hinder us by driving us closer to the cap, they can use it. With Brandon, now Laurence (Gilman), and our R&D department here, we’re well prepared for anything, and not just this summer but next summer moving ahead. You hear it in the media, and you hear it outside, and if another team wants to use that, we’ll be in a good position and we’re well-situated to do whatever we have to do to retain our players. So that won’t be an issue. That’s always the way that I’ve approached that. It’s something that in the future, I know it doesn’t get used often in the NHL, but it will be something in the future, that as our situation evolves, that we may look to use as well to bring players in. I think it’s a mechanism whereby you can add a player for a set cost and as long as they’re willing to sign with you; we’ll continue to look at that.

-----

IMO, if it happens to him, Dubas is saying it's fair game for the rest of the NHL.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Dubas made Matthews among the highest paid players in the game, so nothing to struggle signing for Matthews over.

Highest paid period considering the short term.

 

[The CyNick]

Can't say that. Due to inflation, growth of game, and cap increases there is more money in the game. Kuch has been brilliant since signing that short prove it deal. He earned the 9.5 (equal to about 10.5m + anywhere else). He's scoring goals, piling up the points, winning major hardware, etc.

Stamkos signed that deal many years ago when there was less money in the game. And on top he also gave the Bolts a discount. Stamkos while a C by position is more of a winger. Anyone will tell you that. He ain't a bonafide centreman and has suffered major injuries which have really broken him.

Ovechkin is generational, Marner is not.

So centers should only be paid more than wingers when they are Matthews? Just trying to follow the logic you're working with here.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Yeah. Totally a fact that Lou made that team.

Give your head a shake.

some people want to credit Lou for everyhting...daylight savings time...damn Lou really got a bargain with that one...gas prices drop...good ol Lou looking out for us

he inherited a team...got the best coach in the NHL (that made the entire difference not Lou at all lol) if not for Trotz that team finishes close to the basement again

 

[Kurtz]

I believe Dubi should have just paid Nylander and battled hard with the Matthews camp, Dubi screwed himself and the league with the Matthews deal... Matthews is going to want 15AAV for his next contract lol

If Matthews, the best American player in the game today, made it to RFA, ud have a half-dozen teams throwing an $13m+ offersheet at him on July 1st. Matthews had all the leverage in that negotiation.

This won't happen with Mitch.

 

[The CyNick]

Don't care. I have looked at dozens of scenarios - at least one would work out. Too many people look at getting an elite player in return. Instead you can likely get a good package that fills in a lot of holes.

Like what?

Propose a trade and then squeeze the assets into the money we have after AJ and Kap sign their deals.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I wanted to bridge Nylander 3x 5 AAV take it or leave it.


Dubas needs to consider a bridge deal.


Marner's value won't increase from where it is now. it is sky high already.


i want Marner long term so it sucks but we can't overpay.


i'm still hoping for a long term deal.


these overpaid RFAs are something else

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Dubas doesn't really strike me as that kind of person. In your example, the Islanders sheet Mitch and we let him go, why would we retaliate against another team that didn't do anything to us? It just seems unlikely to me.

steal anders lee and still come out ahead lol...here ya go Lou

 

[Hockey Crazy]

If Matthews, the best American player in the game today, made it to RFA, ud have a half-dozen teams throwing an $13m+ offersheet at him on July 1st. Matthews had all the leverage in that negotiation.

This won't happen with Mitch.

Exactly. Matthews is a rarer commodity than Marner is. Remember when it took us a decade to find a true #1 C?

 

[The CyNick]

nobody said worthless bud...in fact any leaf fan knows how important Marner is (Winger or not) but just because he is important doesn't mean we can and should overpay the guy...he wants more than KUCHEROV let that sink in for a moment...I hope it's just his agent being a twit personally as I really like Marner, but if he wants to play that game knowing full well where the leafs are in concern to the cap then I will gladly swallow my pride take the 4 1st's and say good riddance

Isn't it about time Toronto really made it about the name on the front of the jersey and not the one on the back (and if players don't like it they can bugger off to wherever we trade them) no accomplishments just yet and paying for a promise is always a tricky move...what if he god forbid breaks his ankle this summer and is never the same again...

Kuch deal was in the past.

In the more recent present matthews received a deal from the same GM that will pay him more than MCDAVID over 8 years.

That's the world the GM created.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Kuch deal was in the past.

In the more recent present matthews received a deal from the same GM that will pay him more than MCDAVID over 8 years.

That's the world the GM created.

More made up facts. Huge surprise.

Marner does not compare to Matthews, How can people not get that ?

 

[jrgtml67]

Maybe we need Brayden Point to sign before mitch? If he gets less than 11 or 10.5 mitch will not make more than him so itd do us a favor. I still see this ending right before July 1st or on July 1st..esp if Dubas is scared of an offer sheet. Again remember Kap and AJ haven't formally signed because Dubas wants Marner sorted first

 

[Gabriel426]

Signed several years ago. Deals quickly become obsolete. No question the leafs would bring it up, but signing the matthews deal changed the game. This is a player without an 80 point season who was given in reality more than McDavid.

True but do you honestly think other teams will OS Marner 12mil/5yrs? If Point, Rantenan and Aho are signing for 9mil/5yrs?

 

[81Leafs50]

Dubas doesn't really strike me as that kind of person. In your example, the Islanders sheet Mitch and we let him go, why would we retaliate against another team that didn't do anything to us? It just seems unlikely to me.

imagine the chaos if teams used offer sheets regularly, pretty much stating we like your RFA better than our own. COL offer sheets Marner and Rantonen left hanging for example.

 

[ACC1224]

you can't build and run an org off UFA, you need the RFA's in the org to keep the engine running

Sure but that has nothing to do with the initial point.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

I've been called out by message board fans. Guess how much I value yours or their opinion?

Marner is taking more personal attacks than the others. Especially related to his family, which to me seems uncalled for. But this is what happens when you deal with message board hockey fans.

Part 1 of your post: I don't value fans opinions.
Part 2 of your post: Why r fanz so mean to Marner?

If you don't care about other fans do us all a favour and stop talking about them. And guess what, walking into a place for discussion and not caring about other peoples opinions doesn't make you better than them, it means you're a useless troll who's in the wrong place. The fact that you post here hourly every day just makes it so much worse.

 

[ACC1224]

What do you think it means?

This plus that = you have no idea.

 

[hotpaws]

nobody said worthless bud...in fact any leaf fan knows how important Marner is (Winger or not) but just because he is important doesn't mean we can and should overpay the guy...he wants more than KUCHEROV let that sink in for a moment...I hope it's just his agent being a twit personally as I really like Marner, but if he wants to play that game knowing full well where the leafs are in concern to the cap then I will gladly swallow my pride take the 4 1st's and say good riddance

Isn't it about time Toronto really made it about the name on the front of the jersey and not the one on the back (and if players don't like it they can bugger off to wherever we trade them) no accomplishments just yet and paying for a promise is always a tricky move...what if he god forbid breaks his ankle this summer and is never the same again...

JT signed for 2.5m more than Stamkos and it was spun that he took a team friendly deal and the SS contract wasn't a comparable because there's no state tax in Florida .

now i keep hearing MM can't sign for more than Kuch and the state tax argument is ignored

i agree we should have made it a priority to get the players to sign for at worst market level deals and not set the bar higher but that precedent should have started at the beginning with Tavares and not at the end with MM

Dube should have slapped a front loaded 9.5m x 7yrs plus endorsements contract on the table and told JT this is how high we could go since we have some huge deals coming up and let him decide if he wanted to come home to play . Instead he signed JT to the second highest cap hit in the NHL and M&M are using that deal as an internal comparable .

Dube should have also made signing the 3 kids a priority last summer instead of wasting time pimping himself with how smart he was by hiring women and spewing some non sense about how he did a blind hiring process to get to a short list before he decided to hire a woman as an area scout among other things .

 

[biotk]

Like what?

Propose a trade and then squeeze the assets into the money we have after AJ and Kap sign their deals.

I have already proposed trades. Marner for Manson and Comtois (plus a pick or prospect - although I would do the trade without any add). Would Anaheim agree to it? Beats me, but as I had there are many examples and you only need one to work. Toronto is currently lacking RHD, and their LW is far weaker than their RW. Anaheim is currently lacking on the RW far more than the LW. They still have decent D depth.

Anaheim has cap space with no one left to sign. They need offense really bad - no one on the team hit 50 points last year. They also don't have much on the RW after Rakell. They just bought out RW Perry. They wouldn't want to lose Manson, but they would still have Lindholm, Fowler, Larrson, Guhle and Megna. Plenty of young D looking for an opportunity. Still, they don't have the same D depth they had when they still had Montour and Theodore.

Manson still has 3 years left on his contract. 4.1M per season. Big very physical RHD, who is excellent at preventing zone entries and controlled zone exits. Comtois is a young physical (27 hits in 10 NHL games) LW who has two years left in his ELC.

5M between the two of them. Frees up about 6M. Good for Toronto - who has offensive stars, but lacks depth and cap space. I think it would be good for Anaheim who has depth and cap space, but lacks offensive stars.

 

[DarkKnight]

Well according to this interview

One-on-one with Leafs GM Kyle Dubas: On Babcock, offer...

Q: Going back to some of those players. Were you fearful at all over the summer of an offer sheet for William Nylander?

A: I wouldn’t say fearful. I think an offer sheet is a mechanism of the collective bargaining agreement. It’s something that any team that has the requisite salary cap space and draft pick capital can use to procure a player from another team. With our situation, I think there’s two ways of looking at it. There’s the fear — not a fear, but there’s the chance that, hey, an offer sheet can come. Can we match it? And the answer, this summer and next summer, will be yes we can match it. So if a team wants to use that mechanism to competitively try to hinder us by driving us closer to the cap, they can use it. With Brandon, now Laurence (Gilman), and our R&D department here, we’re well prepared for anything, and not just this summer but next summer moving ahead. You hear it in the media, and you hear it outside, and if another team wants to use that, we’ll be in a good position and we’re well-situated to do whatever we have to do to retain our players. So that won’t be an issue. That’s always the way that I’ve approached that. It’s something that in the future, I know it doesn’t get used often in the NHL, but it will be something in the future, that as our situation evolves, that we may look to use as well to bring players in. I think it’s a mechanism whereby you can add a player for a set cost and as long as they’re willing to sign with you; we’ll continue to look at that.

-----

IMO, if it happens to him, Dubas is saying it's fair game for the rest of the NHL.

I’m sure the rest of the league is terrified with all the 1st rounders we have moving forward.

 

[BallardEra]

These are the bonus checks the Leafs need to write on Monday:

Matthews - 15,200,000
Tavares - 14,990,000
Nylander - 8,300,000
Zaitsev - 3,000,000
Andersen - 3,000,000
Kadri - 2,000,000
Brown - 500,000
Sparks - 40,000

Paul wants some of that cake too!

 

[Mess]

Matthews is way better then Marner. That's why he was paid more. Pretty Simple.

Its not The $$$$/rate its the term that is the problem.

 

[Kamiccolo]

I’m sure the rest of the league is terrified with all the 1st rounders we have moving forward.

Turns out, you only need 4 of the next 5 years to do it. So really, we can do a max offersheet if we wanted.

 

[jrgtml67]

Also lets let's remember Jake Gardiner, leads kind of wanted him back, but again cant do a thing until Mitch is done this is going to be done sooner rather than later