Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VIII | We Waitin'

[The CyNick]

That's where I'm at too.

I believe if you're a team first fan you cant help but be completely annoyed with Marners camp. It doesn't matter if it's his right to explore his options, by exploring them he's indicating he's not a team first guy, a team guy would keep the fight in house - not shout out to the league that he's going to be on a tour to meet all interested parties.

Robin Lehner, as a pending UFA Vezina finalist, made a public statement that he's only interested in being an Islander. With little concern as to what kind of impact that could have on contract negotiations he made his loyalties known. Gotta respect that.

All I know is if Marner is signed I dont want to see any fluff pieces at any point about how special it is to play for the Leafs, or any kind of home town hero narrative. He's Alexei Yashin - only here for the cheque (which is fine).

Just like Nylander, Matthews and the GM. Birds of a feather flock together. Hopefully they win, that's all I care about.

 

[Marshy]

Geez, try not to take it so literal, the point was that Yashin only cared about the money, the crest meant nothing to him.

I see what you mean now.

 

[MyBudJT]

The absolute ceiling for Mitch Marner should be 11M for 8 years.

That's Kucherov's contract + the tax difference (even though I believe it's a tiny factor relative to what people think of it due to jock tax, residencies, etc)

Considering Kucherov is a better player, and a better goal scorer, to me, the 10M x 8 years is right on the money.

Considering Marner has massively outproduced Kucherov up to their respective U22 seasons, and that Kucherov will likely regret signing the deal he did, a 8x10 would be a bargain.

Not to mention Jeff freaking skinner just sign at 8x9. Marner at 8x10 is a steal!

 

[Sypher04]

JUST as an FYI here is an example of Ferris' work (Marners agent). They guys sucks at his job. He threatens with everything imaginable then signs **** contracts for cheap......

Sam Bennett 2 years 3.39M AAV
Athanasiou 2 years 3M AAV
Josh Anderson 3 years 1.85M AAV

LMAO

So do not freak out Leafs fans. No matter what you hear. This is just how the agent works.

I agree but has he ever done it with a player who has the leverage of a Marner. I still think a reasonable deal will be the end result but this is at least a little different

 

[Sypher04]

Considering Marner has massively outproduced Kucherov up to their respective U22 seasons, and that Kucherov will likely regret signing the deal he did, a 8x10 would be a bargain.

Not to mention Jeff freaking skinner just sign at 8x9. Marner at 8x10 is a steal!

Skinner being a bad signing doesn't make 10m a steal

 

[Cor]

You know what bugs me? A player squeezes the team for more dough and all should be forgiven after the deal gets done.

What if Dubas was to squeeze Mitch and say hey go solicit offers but if you don't get as good as we are offering -- our offer is going down? This is our best offer next week it won't be that good.

All's fair in negations right? It's just business right? No hard feelings!

Well, I think that's essentially what Kyle Dubas needs to do.

Today, he should be tabling a final offer. And say, considering I have other players, and a team to improve, the next offer on July 2nd, after you speak to all these teams, will be lower.

And leave it there. Tell them they are risking money by talking to other teams, and if they take that risk, they sure as hell better get an actual offer sheet.

 

[MyBudJT]

Skinner being a bad signing doesn't make 10m a steal

No, I know... I was being a little facetious there. But 8x11 would be a fair contract still, and 8x10 would be in bargain territory.

 

[18leafsfan18]

They factor total money into 5 years even though its a longer term. Even $9M x 6 becomes $10.8M for compensation purposes.The absolute maximum AAV the Leafs have to match is $10,568,590 x 5 to get the four 1sts and the number drops all the way to $7.6M for a 7 year deal.

All draft picks must be from the team that gets the player to sign the offer sheet; selections from other teams cannot be substituted. The maximum denominator used in determining the AAV of the cost is five. If a player signs an offer sheet for a term longer than that, the total value of the contract is divided by five and that number will be used as the AAV for determining draft pick compensation, not the average value of the contract itself.

Good to know.

I think the question still stands.

 

[ACC1224]

Geez, try not to take it so literal, the point was that Yashin only cared about the money, the crest meant nothing to him.

Can you not care about both?

 

[The CyNick]

You know what bugs me? A player squeezes the team for more dough and all should be forgiven after the deal gets done.

What if Dubas was to squeeze Mitch and say hey go solicit offers but if you don't get as good as we are offering -- our offer is going down? This is our best offer next week it won't be that good.

All's fair in negations right? It's just business right? No hard feelings!

Negotiation is all about pressure points.

The GM said Marner was his top priority. Seems like he botched that since marner isn't signed yet.

He previously said the big three would be signed. He hasn't accomplished that yet, even though it should have been relatively easy.

Marner is an elite player, likely 100pts per year. If the GM lets him get away, he's very unlikely to replace him with an equal talent.

The team promised Tavares the opportunity to play with Marner during his tenure. To now go back to him and say well I screwed up the marner negotiations so you get to play with Kapanen may cause problems between JT and management.

The only pressure point on Marner is whether he takes a $10.5M deal over 7-8 years with the Leafs or holds out for a shorter deal at $11M per.

There's really no comparison in terms of the pressure points. Marner will get paid either way. But if the GM plays this the wrong way, he could be on the unemployment line next season.

 

[Beaumaris]

It makes Mitch look bad because it's meant to drive the price up, and put pressure on TOR.

This is nothing new with Ferris.

Ferris figures he's a big wheel.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Negotiation is all about pressure points.

The GM said Marner was his top priority. Seems like he botched that since marner isn't signed yet.

He previously said the big three would be signed. He hasn't accomplished that yet, even though it should have been relatively easy.

Marner is an elite player, likely 100pts per year. If the GM lets him get away, he's very unlikely to replace him with an equal talent.

The team promised Tavares the opportunity to play with Marner during his tenure. To now go back to him and say well I screwed up the marner negotiations so you get to play with Kapanen may cause problems between JT and management.

The only pressure point on Marner is whether he takes a $10.5M deal over 7-8 years with the Leafs or holds out for a shorter deal at $11M per.

There's really no comparison in terms of the pressure points. Marner will get paid either way. But if the GM plays this the wrong way, he could be on the unemployment line next season.

 

[Marshy]

Negotiation is all about pressure points.

The GM said Marner was his top priority. Seems like he botched that since marner isn't signed yet.

He previously said the big three would be signed. He hasn't accomplished that yet, even though it should have been relatively easy.

Marner is an elite player, likely 100pts per year. If the GM lets him get away, he's very unlikely to replace him with an equal talent.

The team promised Tavares the opportunity to play with Marner during his tenure. To now go back to him and say well I screwed up the marner negotiations so you get to play with Kapanen may cause problems between JT and management.

The only pressure point on Marner is whether he takes a $10.5M deal over 7-8 years with the Leafs or holds out for a shorter deal at $11M per.

There's really no comparison in terms of the pressure points. Marner will get paid either way. But if the GM plays this the wrong way, he could be on the unemployment line next season.

That's an interesting way to look at this situation.

 

[The CyNick]

You must be joking? This absolutely happened with Matthews and Nylander, and well it did the posters who care about stupid crap like "being a local kid" baselessly sainted Marner as the heart and soul of this team and the only one who wasn't selfish. Are you actually kidding me? It's taken extremely ugly public negotiations and demands that make it look like Marner wants to price himself out of town to get to this point.

Absolutely joke of a post, but hey plenty here have called out your track record already.

I've been called out by message board fans. Guess how much I value yours or their opinion?

Marner is taking more personal attacks than the others. Especially related to his family, which to me seems uncalled for. But this is what happens when you deal with message board hockey fans.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I mean how pissed off would you be if you were Auston Matthews? He spent the first 2 years on the 2nd PP unit with the likes of Marleau, Komarov, Brown, etc... despite being the best offensive player on the team. Literally no other team in history as done this, exclude their best goal-scorer from the top PP unit.

No ****ing **** Matthews milked the Leafs for every penny. He's proven multiple times that he's bare-minimum a top-3 goal-scorer in the league (5v5 best, by a good margin) and our complete idiot of a coach decides he shouldn't be on PP1, thus costing him the most valuable offensive minutes he could be used for and thus barring him from earning more money via artificially suppressing his production.. His usage throughout his short career has been utterly disgraceful.

What's funny too is that the player we saw in the 1st year is not the same player we've seen in years 2 and 3. As a rookie, he had a non-stop motor and was remarkable defensively for being a rookie. Part way through year 2 he just straight up stopped giving a **** (I truly believe it's because he hates Babcock with a passion), his effort level has been extremely inconsistent in years 2 and 3 and we've yet to see him put forth the same effort he did in his rookie year.

Seeing Marner put out the sentiments that he was unhappy with his TOI, being jipped of rookie bonuses etc etc... most likely mirrors what Matthews thinks too. And Marner didn't even get the worst end of it either. Either way though, these 2 have watched things like their PP time get artificially cut short only to see scrubs like Marleau and Brown have it. This undoubtedly pisses them off. It legit pains me to say that Matthews may not even be a Leaf in 5 years time.

Matthews got moved to the top pp unit last year. His pp goals and points was only slightly better than his rookie year (granted, in 12 or so less games).
But still. We're not talking a ground breaking difference in numbers here. Not enough to warrant the outrageous 11.6x5 contract.

 

[HappyJoy]

Kadri was in the press box, that's who I was talking about.

Then why mention WN? I guess it's a compulsion for some people at this point.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That's an interesting way to look at this situation.

He's the master of unique takes.

 

[MyBudJT]

Matthews got moved to the top pp unit last year. His pp goals and points was only slightly better than his rookie year (granted, in 12 or so less games).
But still. We're not talking a ground breaking difference in numbers here. Not enough to warrant the outrageous 11.6x5 contract.

This isn't entirely true. Matthews' unit was the top unit in year 1, until Marner's unit surpassed them in year 2.

 

[Bluelines]

I don't feel sorry for Marner at all, he knows Dubas spends like a drunken sailor on shore leave, Marner said he was perfectly comfortable waiting till the off season to sign. He should have known there would be very little money left for him...shame on Marner for not knowing Dubas can't balance a balance sheet book.

 

[The CyNick]

What do you mean trade Marner for picks, you mean in the way of OS?

If yes then I agree. Mind you, I don't see an OS coming, so the picks wouldn't come into play if he doesn't get an OS, it would be an actual trade.

Whether people think it's wise to trade Marner or not isn't really my point though, it can be used as leverage but in this case it can't if you don't believe Dubas would have the stomach for that.

Exactly from an offer sheet.

Point was if the leafs think marner is asking for too much, and they expect to lose him via OS (a real possibility) them why burn the first on shedding the Marleau contract? Just keep Marleau this year, keep your first, and the four 1sts from the Marner OS.

The Marleau trade to me signifies they are close enough with marner to get a deal done and needed the cap space.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Considering Marner has massively outproduced Kucherov up to their respective U22 seasons, and that Kucherov will likely regret signing the deal he did, a 8x10 would be a bargain.

Not to mention Jeff freaking skinner just sign at 8x9. Marner at 8x10 is a steal!

Who cares if Kucherov "regrets" his ufa contract. It's still an indicator of the market. It's what he signed.

Does this go both ways?

If a gm "regrets" offering a player so much money in hindsight, is the contract no longer a comparable players can use?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

This isn't entirely true. Matthews' unit was the top unit in year 1, until Marner's unit surpassed them in year 2.

But the poster I was responding to claimed that Matthews was relegated to the 2nd PP unit his first 2 seasons.

 

[The CyNick]

That's an interesting way to look at this situation.

An accurate one, but yes.

 

[therealkoho]

Is Dreger related to Marner, or does he have an axe to grind with the Leafs?

Why would the Leafs add a sweetener to a RD with a reasonable contract that they don't have to move?

definitely an axe to grind, after years of his insufferable horsepuckey adversely effecting the dressing room's harmony, he like Simmons is pretty much persona non-grata to the Leafs

the Dreger cafe interview with Babcock a few years back was very telling, Babs was more condescending then usual

 

[Marshy]

Money in the bank is one part of a players total compensation from the team. Does anyone spend more on "extras" for the players than Toronto? Sure agents don't care about that at the end of the day because they don't get a cut of those benefits - but the players do.

Take 12 Million from the Islanders if you want or the Blue Jackets or whomever. I'm sure their perks are good too...