Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VIII | We Waitin'

[Sonny21]

I had written up a long post, but I'll make it much shorter.

Does anyone here think Dubas would have the guts to trade Marner? If not, then Marner camp will never lose leverage even when he doesn't get an offer sheet (he won't).

Exact same with Nylander and Matthews negotiations...

 

[The CyNick]

I thought you were done replying.

Am I not allowed to be a fan of both? Yes, I am a Marner fan. I think he has HHOF potential, and could possibly go down as one of the best Leafs in team history.

But I'll always be a bigger Leafs fan than a Marner fan. Not sure what this has to do with anything though.

It's weird that people see it as us vs him when it comes to marner but not with matthews who was signed to a horrible contract. You would think the message board fans on here would have more loyalty to the local kid.

If we lose a potential HOFer over $1M that will go down as one of the worst moves in the history of the game, nevermind just the leafs.

 

[The CyNick]

I had written up a long post, but I'll make it much shorter.

Does anyone here think Dubas would have the guts to trade Marner? If not, then Marner camp will never lose leverage even when he doesn't get an offer sheet (he won't).

Exact same with Nylander and Matthews negotiations...

Its not even about guts. My understanding is he doesn't have the power to do that. Unless the board have changed their position recently.

 

[HolyCrap]

What's wrong with that? Seeking out what his value actually is will accelerate the process to him getting a contract and being ready to play come October. Let's not pretend that seeking an offer sheet is some horrible character flaw. Ryan O'Reilly signed an offer sheet. Shea Weber signed an offer sheet. Joe Sakic signed an offer sheet. Keith Tkachuk signed an offer sheet. Teemu Selanne signed an offer sheet. Brendan Shanahan signed an offer sheet.

And let’s hope Marner signs one. That’s best case scenario. Cap space and 4 firsts. It gives us ability to fix our back end issues.

 

[kb]

So what? It's well within his rights to look after his future. You guys are acting like a bunch of jilted teenage girls. As long as he signs with the Leafs, who cares?

After remembering your posts in the Nylander threads, this is an extreme version of 'pot meet kettle' take

 

[Caesium]

And let’s hope Marner signs one. That’s best case scenario. Cap space and 4 firsts. It gives us ability to fix our back end issues.

Or $9.7 million in cap space and two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. I guess the Leafs could sign Tyler Myers with that.

 

[kb]

When Nylander's deal came about, there was no threats of visiting teams for offer sheets and he focused his price range on his comparables. Furthermore, he didn't mess the leafs up in any way other than trying to find a middle ground on his deal and missing a chunk of the year. The Leafs had boatloads of cap space and we're able to go about their business without worry. Even signing John Tavares. Matthews got his out of the way, as have Johnsson and Kapanen verbally to help Dubas get a clear picture of what he has, and doesn't have financially. Marner holding out is really putting Dubas in a bad situation where he doesn't know what he has dollar wise for shopping July 1st. As a result, Marner is hurting the entire team/roster come October. The way this is playing out so far is going to result in a broken relationship

This.....100%.

 

[Sonny21]

Its not even about guts. My understanding is he doesn't have the power to do that. Unless the board have changed their position recently.

You may be right, I don't know for sure so I was just going with that basic premise.

Let me put it this way, if he did have such power, he would of had it with Nylander and he lost that battle with the least valuable player of Matthews/Marner.

The rest is history for me. Doesn't mean I can't be wrong, but that's my current optics of Dubas.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Ferris on Matthews' contract:

"Nobody else is taking a discount. And now you're asking (Marner) to take one again? It's nonsense, Mitch already did them a favor on the entry-level deal."

And he isn't wrong. None of Nylander, Matthews, Kapanen or Johnsson have taken a discount on their contract. For context, Mitch agreed to $9 million for 8 years and the Leafs said no, that's too expensive.

At the time he was a 60+ point winger who wanted $9 million... that was too expensive.

 

[kb]

Dubas deciding to spend all of his cap space before negotiating a deal with Marner is not Marner's fault, that's all on Dubas. It is not a player's responsibility to manage their team's salary cap.

Good. Then let him rot.

 

[Walshy7]

I didn't say it first. Friedman and Johnson both brought up the possibility in the 31 thoughts podcast you brought up earlier...

Could be a hall of famer yes he could. My post quotes a person essentially calling him one now

 

[Martin Skoula]

Or $9.7 million in cap space and two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. I guess the Leafs could sign Tyler Myers with that.

If Marner was willing to sign for 9.7 longterm he'd already be signed. No one is submitting an offersheet for less than 10.5, anything less gets matched before the ink on the offersheet is dry.

 

[kb]

From Marner's perspective Dubas has told Marner he is the least important player on the team since he is willing to leave no room for him. Respect goes both ways. Marner is getting zero respect for leading this team in points for the past two years, and his supposed home town fans are treating him horribly for the pleasure. It's no wonder that up until JT no one wanted to play for the Leafs, and we'll see how much he likes being a Leaf after the reason he joined the team gets traded and Dubas breaks his promise.

Another Paul Marner burner account? Jeebus....

 

[Caesium]

If Marner was willing to sign for 9.7 longterm he'd already be signed. No one is submitting an offersheet for less than 10.5, anything less gets matched before the ink on the offersheet is dry.

This might be a novel concept to you, but losing Marner does not magically generate cap space that the Leafs don't already have. Assuming 3.4 + 3.2 for AJ and KK and filling all other roster spots with AHL call ups the Leafs will have $9.7 million in cap space.

 

[ULF_55]

Is Dreger related to Marner, or does he have an axe to grind with the Leafs?

Why would the Leafs add a sweetener to a RD with a reasonable contract that they don't have to move?

 

[biotk]

The leafs will pay him that or at least close to that.

I fear you are right. I hope they are smarter than that.

 

[biotk]

I had written up a long post, but I'll make it much shorter.

Does anyone here think Dubas would have the guts to trade Marner? If not, then Marner camp will never lose leverage even when he doesn't get an offer sheet (he won't).

Exact same with Nylander and Matthews negotiations...

Dubas was more than willing to trade Nylander. He simply didn't get a good enough offer.

 

[Menzinger]

I had written up a long post, but I'll make it much shorter.

Does anyone here think Dubas would have the guts to trade Marner? If not, then Marner camp will never lose leverage even when he doesn't get an offer sheet (he won't).

Exact same with Nylander and Matthews negotiations...

I think unfortunately we're entering unknown territory.

I'd feel comfortable wagering that Marner won be getting any serious offersheets, which means either he signs a contract more on the Leafs terms or he holds out. If Dubas thinks the relationship between team and player is beyond salvaging I can see a trade potentially happening.

I hope it doesnt come to that though. Still time to get him signed.

 

[supermann_98]

$72M was discussion point prior to season for Marner, Maple Leafs - Sportsnet.ca

“Many people talking, suggesting maybe the best chance to sign him on a long-term deal, Ron, would have been in the summer,” Nick Kypreos told Ron MacLean Saturday during the Headlines segment of Hockey Night in Canada. “The discussion point was around $72 million prior to the season and my understanding is it was too rich for the Toronto Maple Leafs.”

Kipper has no sources within the Leafs and if he’s just regurgitating what Marner’s camp may have given him as “insider information “ he’s nothing but a megaphone for whatever they want conveyed to the public.

 

[Sonny21]

Is Dreger related to Marner, or does he have an axe to grind with the Leafs?

Why would the Leafs add a sweetener to a RD with a reasonable contract that they don't have to move?

The one thing as a fan who wanted to rebuild so badly didn't anticipate is the insiders straight up doing other gm's/agents dirty work against Leafs to the degree they've done.

Lebrun did it with Ducks/Canes where he was pushing HARD for Leafs to trade Nylander for Montour/Pesce.

Dreger more doing the bidding for the agents for Nylander/Matthews/Marner.

Anytime either can devalue Leafs assets or drive up RFA $$, they do it.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

$10.55 million is two 1sts, second, and a third, or about what the Leafs traded for Jake Muzzin.

But would be matched by the Leafs.
If you want Marner it will cost your next four firsts and at least $10.6 million a year for five years against your cap plus you could have to wait up to a week to see if the Leafs will match and meanwhile all the high end "free" UFAs will be snapped up leaving you with scraps to sign when the Leafs match.
Is any GM this stupid?
After July 1st teams will build their teams with UFAs and sign their own RFAs and one by one Marner's possible offer sheet destinations will be gone until only the Leafs are left.
Anyone who has ever seen the game show DEAL OR NO DEAL can see where this could end up.

 

[Sonny21]

Dubas was more than willing to trade Nylander. He simply didn't get a good enough offer.

We don't knows that, just like insiders do the work for other gms/agents, Leafs also have their insiders to leak stuff.

Until management makes a significant trade, threats of trading starts to lose it's weight.

That doesn't mean they weren't willing to trade him, just more so in terms of leverage/optics.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Or $9.7 million in cap space and two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. I guess the Leafs could sign Tyler Myers with that.

It is funny that you think the Leafs would not match an offer under 10 million. Like there is literally no point in even discussing that as a possibility.

 

[Menzinger]

It is funny that you think the Leafs would not match an offer under 10 million. Like there is literally no point in even discussing that as a possibility.

Not to mention which phantom team is going to even contemplate this?

 

[Caesium]

It is funny that you think the Leafs would not match an offer under 10 million. Like there is literally no point in even discussing that as a possibility.

You might want to re-read the conversation. Marner signing at $10.55 million is two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. The $9.7 million is not what I said Marner would sign for, I said the Leafs currently have that much cap space.