Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VII | The Saga Continues

[Mess]

I think it's fair to blame the player when they're asking for outlandish numbers and shopping themselves more aggressively than any RFA in history. Regardless, it doesn't appear that Dubas is playing the game and Marner may end up regretting how he's allowed his agent to handle this.

Much like you did earlier, you saw right through the Marner/Ferris pitfall trap about them using use Matthews comparable as a flawed argument to make their case, instead of using league comparables instead like most experienced GMs would do also, as well as using position C vs RW and goal scoring verses playmaking all as leverage to lower the Marner asking price to the teams advantage.

Kucherov the best winger in the game just signed for 8 years at $9.5 mil and all of them were UFA years to boot. If I'm Dubas then Marner would need to convince me that in time he will be able to perform at the Kucherov level and therefore that should be the upper limit/ ceiling of his next contract on an 8 year term. That would be a totally reasonable position to take and should call BS on any other tactic. IMO

Marner only has 3 legitimate options on the table here as a RFA..

1) He can withhold his services while unsigned and not get paid while sitting out.
2) He can accept a contract that Dubas offers and represents valid comparables of the GM choosing to arrive at that price point the Leafs are willing to commit to.
or
3) He can attempt to convince and/or manipulate by any means, another GM into giving him a valid offer sheet that he is willing to sign.

If Dubas commits to more than $9.5 mil (for RFA cost controllable years) then he is getting played because all these young comparable RFAs should be using Kucherov as the max and come in below that mark and that includes Mitch.

But I think both you and I know this is not the way we expect to end up, because the system/game is being played better by players/agents than GMs.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

In the first half of your argument you want to compare apples to apples, then in the second half you use statistics in as misleading a way as possible to try and further your argument. Do you really think Nylander gets 7 million if he puts up 27 points going into his ELC? Why not use points per game over their ELC if you want apples to apples?

Are Tampa, Colorado, or Carolina bad teams? Since they aren't, surely Point, Rantanen, and Aho can be comparables? Aren't you at all concerned that Marner's first unworldly season came alongside a center notorious for making his wingers look better than they are?

yeah but Marner also gave 2 players on his line career years so they complement one another pretty well.

 

[Caesium]

If I'm Dubas then Marner would need to convince me that in time he will be able to perform at the Kucherov level and therefore that should be the upper limit/ ceiling of his next contract on an 8 year term.

You might want to take a look at Kucherov's career stats and compare the ages at which he was hitting different point thresholds. Marner at 21 performed like a 24-25 year old Kucherov. There is an argument to be made that Marner will be putting up more than what Kucherov is when he is 26 years old.

 

[yubbers]

Playing Mitch with JT will end up costing us 3-4 million a year in cap space annually if we sign him. Never got it with him going into a contract year. Maybe the original plan was Willy?

 

[BayStBullies]

You might want to take a look at Kucherov's career stats and compare the ages at which he was hitting different point thresholds. Marner at 21 performed like a 24-25 year old Kucherov. There is an argument to be made that Marner will be putting up more than what Kucherov is when he is 26 years old.

Not to mention that referencing Tampa contracts is never a fair basis for an argument. They're able to sign players for less, due to lack of taxes. Something I wish the league would repair; if they really want to hard cap teams fairly.

 

[yubbers]

Not to mention that referencing Tampa contracts is never a fair basis for an argument. They're able to sign players for less, due to lack of taxes. Something I wish the league would repair; if they really want to hard cap teams fairly.

This needs to be addressed in a cap era. It's BS

 

[therealkoho]

I'm not an Islanders fan ? When I say "us" I refer to Leafs. When I say he was promised the team would have a home, I am obviously referring to Islanders not having a permanent arena. Maybe a bit of analysis on your end would save you some trouble.

maybe writing with a lot more clarity would also help

 

[therealkoho]

has an RFA ever openly solicited offers from other teams? I think it's beyond repair at this point, he needs to go

where exactly does it say what you're suggesting?

 

[therealkoho]

Who says it's four 1sts? 3 years at $10.55 million would be two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd.

it's based on AAV, the 5 year calculation is only used in contracts exceeding 5 years

as an example a 6 year deal at lets say 63 million is considered a 12.5m cap hit for compensation purposes

a 3 year at 10.55 is still 4 1st's

 

[Stephen]

Much like you did earlier, you saw right through the Marner/Ferris pitfall trap about them using use Matthews comparable as a flawed argument to make their case, instead of using league comparables instead like most experienced GMs would do also, as well as using position C vs RW and goal scoring verses playmaking all as leverage to lower the Marner asking price to the teams advantage.

Kucherov the best winger in the game just signed for 8 years at $9.5 mil and all of them were UFA years to boot. If I'm Dubas then Marner would need to convince me that in time he will be able to perform at the Kucherov level and therefore that should be the upper limit/ ceiling of his next contract on an 8 year term. That would be a totally reasonable position to take and should call BS on any other tactic. IMO

Marner only has 3 legitimate options on the table here as a RFA..

1) He can withhold his services while unsigned and not get paid while sitting out.
2) He can accept a contract that Dubas offers and represents valid comparables of the GM choosing to arrive at that price point the Leafs are willing to commit to.
or
3) He can attempt to convince and/or manipulate by any means, another GM into giving him a valid offer sheet that he is willing to sign.

If Dubas commits to more than $9.5 mil (for RFA cost controllable years) then he is getting played because all these young comparable RFAs should be using Kucherov as the max and come in below that mark and that includes Mitch.

But I think both you and I know this is not the way we expect to end up, because the system/game is being played better by players/agents than GMs.

The real fallacy here in the Marner = Matthews line of thinking is Auston Matthews doesn't have a John Tavares equivalent winger to play with.

 

[Cleetus]

has an RFA ever openly solicited offers from other teams? I think it's beyond repair at this point, he needs to go

yea 94 point player, let him go, smh, so what if he talks to other teams, we have no one on this team with elite play making ability, elite pk ability, and elite vision.... he is our leading scorer and you just want to dump him really???

 

[therealkoho]

The treatment between Johnsson and Marner is baffling to me. A guy with 46 points at age 24 is going to sign for $3.5 million and everyone calls it a steal. A guy who scored 224 points by age 22 is being told he's not worth the money.

the money IS NOT the problem, TERM is the sticking point

Mitch wants 5 years, the Leafs want 6 or more

 

[therealkoho]

From his agent who publicly said they're expecting a 12.5 million dollar offer sheet.

sorry but that requires a link to a trusted source other wise it's nonsense someone fed you

 

[therealkoho]

I think it's fair to blame the player when they're asking for outlandish numbers and shopping themselves more aggressively than any RFA in history. Regardless, it doesn't appear that Dubas is playing the game and Marner may end up regretting how he's allowed his agent to handle this.

don't mean to be facetious but how many other RFA's have re-signed at this point?

Aho hasn't, Rantanen, hasn't nor has Tkachuk and all those guys' aren't settling on team friendlies other wise they'd be signed already

 

[Notsince67]

Playing Mitch with JT will end up costing us 3-4 million a year in cap space annually if we sign him. Never got it with him going into a contract year. Maybe the original plan was Willy?

You dont order a porsche and put in vinyl seats

 

[hockeywiz542]

sorry but that requires a link to a trusted source other wise it's nonsense someone fed you

Mitch Marner pourrait recevoir une offre hostile de 12,5 millions $

French to English translation courtesy of Google Translate:

There has been more talk of possible hostile offers submitted to autonomous players restriction in recent weeks. Everyone seems to believe that the probabilities that it happens are much greater this year.

I had the chance to chat with a player whose rights belonged to the Canadiens organization over the last few hours and according to what he heard between the branches, Mitch Marner's agent expects that his client receives (at least) a hostile offer ... worth $ 12.5 million per season (for several seasons).

This player wanted not to be formally identified.

Marner has already advised the Maple Leafs management that he will not sign a contract extension until he can talk to the other teams (June 26).

Always according to the player I spoke to, Marner's agent expects Lou Lamoriello and the Islanders are part of teams interested in at least talking with his client.

There is only one step to tie Lamoriello, the Islanders and this possible hostile bid of $ 12.5 million currently in the circuit. Is the time for revenge for John Tavares' contract sounded?

 

[Suntouchable13]

yea 94 point player, let him go, smh, so what if he talks to other teams, we have no one on this team with elite play making ability, elite pk ability, and elite vision.... he is our leading scorer and you just want to dump him really???

Elite pk? Lol, ok. We saw his elite pk abilities on full display in game 6 against Boston. Shouldn't factor pk at all in the conversation. Pk is a dime a dozen skill. Can be done by scrubs like Hyman and Brown.

 

[therealkoho]

sorry dude not a trusted source

Sportsnet TSN would both be all over this if it had even a modicum of truth attached to it

and they aren't and not even Dreger has tweeted this and you know what a clickbaiter he is

 

[Cleetus]

Elite pk? Lol, ok. We saw his elite pk abilities on full display in game 6 against Boston. Shouldn't factor pk at all in the conversation. Pk is a dime a dozen skill. Can be done by scrubs like Hyman and Brown.

he still does it, and does it well, one game and you write him off ok than.... he has done fine with it... im not worried he will be signed and continue being the leading scorer for the leafs..... funny how you say he is not an elite penalty killer after one game really?

 

[thewave]

9x6 ty

 

[dubey]

Elite pk? Lol, ok. We saw his elite pk abilities on full display in game 6 against Boston. Shouldn't factor pk at all in the conversation. Pk is a dime a dozen skill. Can be done by scrubs like Hyman and Brown.

He blocked 2 shots my guy

On the same shift

ON.THE.SAME.SHIFT

lol

 

[Cleetus]

9x6 ty

I wish but I doubt it, the 7 million dollars to a 27 point player made that ship sail months ago... I think it will be 11+ depending on the term of course.

 

[Suntouchable13]

he still does it, and does it well, one game and you write him off ok than.... he has done fine with it... im not worried he will be signed and continue being the leading scorer for the leafs..... funny how you say he is not an elite penalty killer after one game really?

You don't pay guys for their pk abilities. Talk about his elite playmaking and line driving, sure, but pk shouldn't be a factor.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Mitch Marner pourrait recevoir une offre hostile de 12,5 millions $

French to English translation courtesy of Google Translate:

$12.5 + 4 1st rounders is just lunacy. I'm with the Leafs on calling this bluff. I really don't see the market as excited about offer sheeting him as the media.

I'd be excited about the picks because the franchise that thinks this is the right play is likely poorly run.

 

[Cleetus]

You don't pay guys for their pk abilities. Talk about his elite playmaking and line driving, sure, but pk shouldn't be a factor.

he still does it though... which is a bonus..