Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VI | Marner Reportedly Turns Down 8 Year Term

[X66]

The Hawks had Kane Toews and keith all becoming RFA on June 30,2010. Being proactive they signed both the centre Toews and the winger Kane to the same contract extension on Dec 2 2009 (same $ and same term). Well before deadline- same money to the two stars. Then the next day they signed Keith to his extension. Got them all done well before they became RFA and then won the cup.

They could also benefit from circumventing the cap with Keith, that luxury isn't around anymore.

Kane and Toews salary in today's game would have been around 9 mil, which I think everyone would agree is fair for Marner.

Those days are long over though.

 

[ToneDog]

Says the highest paid coach in NHL history lol

Babs was a UFA

 

[HomerJLeafs]

Imho marner not gonna be a Leaf in september
Our core gonna be AM JT WN MR

 

[ToneDog]

The Hawks had Kane Toews and keith all becoming RFA on June 30,2010. Being proactive they signed both the centre Toews and the winger Kane to the same contract extension on Dec 2 2009 (same $ and same term). Well before deadline- same money to the two stars. Then the next day they signed Keith to his extension. Got them all done well before they became RFA and then won the cup.

Amazing at some of the excuses some have for Boy Wonder. Sakic a fool, held out on Duchene and made out like a bandit. Yzerman never blinked with Stamkos negotiations and signed him for $3M less than Matthews. If Dubas was not man enough, Shanny should not have hired him.

 

[HomerJLeafs]

Everyone believed the "My belief is.." tweets from "insiders" and now Marner is the next victim of Leafs fans.

But the "insiders" were not completely wrong on the Nylander situation or the Matthews one
Pretty close actually like on a long negotiation with WN or AMs caphit

 

[Not My Tempo]

What do you guys think is even the value of Marner on the trade market?

 

[Erndog]

Deep down, I truly believe we'll get a deal done but we aren't going to love the deal.

Like... we aren't getting an 8 yr deal at $9.5M. Maybe we get a 6 yr at $11.16M or something. It'll happen and on one hand we'll be happy and relieved he's staying and other the other we'll be a little disappointed and upset at the numbers.

Probably lose Kapanen in the process as well.

 

[Erndog]

What do you guys think is even the value of Marner on the trade market?

Not as good as 4 first round picks. So not worth trading. Either we sign him to $10.5M or below or if he gets offer sheeted above that mark we just take the 4 firsts because I don't believe anyone will offer us anything better than that.

 

[X66]

Amazing at some of the excuses some have for Boy Wonder. Sakic a fool, held out on Duchene and made out like a bandit. Yzerman never blinked with Stamkos negotiations and signed him for $3M less than Matthews. If Dubas was not man enough, Shanny should not have hired him.

I just think it's so stupid to rip on him right now.

It's June 21st lol.

Rip on him the day before the season if anything.

Leafs fans are the absolute saddest bunch of people, everyone needs to take some steps back.

 

[Mess]

Dubas inherited a unique situation that any GM would have a tough time navigating, with not one but THREE big ticket RFAs due for deals in a short amount of time and the opportunity to sign a franchise center in Tavares that rarely ever hits the market.

A lot of these other teams like Colorado (Rantanen), Carolina (Aho), Vancouver (Boeser), Tampa (Point) only have to deal with one big ticket RFA. Big whoop. Give those same GMs THREE of them to deal with and see how much better a job they do.

Dubas is also signing these players Tavares, Matthews and soon Marner to the highest contracts in the NHL and history in a salary cap World.

JT had the highest UFA contract placing him #2OA (before Karlsson signed this year) and Matthews is now #2OA highest RFA behind only McDavid.

Once he signs Marner to his new deal Leafs could have 3 players in the top 5-6 highest AAV overall.. The situation he inherited was unique, with a bunch of unsigned players, but he turned that into a new unique salary cap "HELL" situation.

Dubas is like the Oprah Winfrey of NHL GMs .. " You get $11 million ,and you get $11 million and you get $11 million"

 

[Canadian Finn]

Suppose you were working for a wealthy company and you see management pay an employee with the initials A.M., who takes a TON of sick days every year, and who you out performed the last 2 years, $116,000.

Then suppose you see that same company pay a useless employee (with the initials W.N.) $66,000.

The company then comes to you and says, "We'd like to pay you the same as A.M., since you produce the same and you never take a sick day, but we don't have the money in the budget. We hope you understand."

Would you understand or would you say "Screw you! I want the same as A.M. and way more than W.N.!!!" Most people would choose the latter. I know I would.

millennial by chance?

 

[The Iceman]

IMO Marner is our #1 SPECIAL Superstar. Even ahead of Matthews and Tavares. Hate to lose him at any cost.

 

[daveleaf]

I believe the days of being able to build a well rounded team maybe over. It was believed that building through the draft was a way to acquire high end talent but it takes years and unfortunately by the time you are well into the cycle, your first wave of players are already demanding top dollars. I just don't see in a salary cap world this fear of an offer sheet being helpful to salary structure. It creates an imbalance of power unfortunately and it may be too late to stem the tide. One way to do it would be to deem 10mill+ players as franchise players and make that comp much higher. Say five first round pics, all pics in first year, 1 through to 7, following year, 1 through 5 and the year after 1 through three and last first in two years after. People will call me crazy but it has gotten out of hand. Mitch is a great player but he was given great players to play with, such as JT. Players need to ask themselves if they want to be part of a winning culture long term or just cash in with all the money they can and never have anything to show for it.

That being said. If they do sign Mitch to 10+ mill than it is time to move Nylander. You just can't have this many major cap guys in your forward group-it just won't work. We need d-men and role players as well.

Good luck to my Leafs but we might have seen our best chance at a cup pass by us this past year. With this many cap forces happening, I doubt we will get there now.

 

[dangomon]

Suppose you were working for a wealthy company and you see management pay an employee with the initials A.M., who takes a TON of sick days every year, and who you out performed the last 2 years, $116,000.

Then suppose you see that same company pay a useless employee (with the initials W.N.) $66,000.

The company then comes to you and says, "We'd like to pay you the same as A.M., since you produce the same and you never take a sick day, but we don't have the money in the budget. We hope you understand."

Would you understand or would you say "Screw you! I want the same as A.M. and way more than W.N.!!!" Most people would choose the latter. I know I would.

Is this a "Matthews made too much" post? Nope. Is this a "Marner deserves more" post? Nope. This is an "I hate Nylander" post. Congrats.

 

[4thline]

Not as good as 4 first round picks. So not worth trading. Either we sign him to $10.5M or below or if he gets offer sheeted above that mark we just take the 4 firsts because I don't believe anyone will offer us anything better than that.

I think if someone makes it known that they plan to OS at a value we won't touch it is possible that a better arrangement can be made for both parties. For example a Chicago fan and I agreed to moving from 2020, 21, 22, 23 1sts to

Boqvist + 2019 43rd overall + 2020 1st + Conditional 2021 1st (Hawks make final 4 or its their second)

Primary benefit is getting the deal done prior to free agency to get the domino's tipping, allowing us to spend our money properly

but asset wise

2020 1st = 2020 1st
2019 43rd =< 2023 1st (time value, we get the prospect sooner, but less potential payoff)
Boqvist >> 2022 1st, (time value + locked in as a top 10 quality pick)
2021 Cond 1st < 2021 unprotected 1st (it may get bumped to a 2nd)

We give up a little on the potential long term payoff to get more surety in at least one blue chip prospect + slide the time scale ahead by two years

 

[ryno23]

That Dubas offersheet question was perfectly handled. Directly singling to Marner that if he tries to use an offersheet as leverage theres a good chance he will be shipped out of town.

Marner way more than Nylander and Matthew's is vulnerable to that fear.

That is a key card I am playing if I am Dubas. Listen Mitch's dad go ahead and get offer sheets and sign it but you risk the chance the Leafs walk away with the 4 1st.

You also take the risk if an offer sheet came from a place like Ottawa, Ari some of the crap teams you don't sign it but fans know you took the Leafs right to the end to extract as much as you wanted to out of the team.....fans will turn on you like Nylander.

Marner has no leverage in this cause the Leafs can win the PR battle at every corner and worse case walk away with 4 1st plus cap space to trade or sign a replacement.

Remember folks Tavares turned Matt Moulson into a 36 goal scorer. Tavares can turn AJ and Kappy into 30 goal scores if Maner leaves

 

[Duanesutter12]

That's one way of looking at it. The other way would be that they didn't necessarily need to sign Tavares! Don't get me wrong, he is a premier talent but in terms of rounding out the team I don't think his signing helped. There was more than enough scoring punch with Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Kapanen and Kadri and the team had glaring holes on defense. Tavares' $11M would've gone a long way towards signing the big three RFA's and getting some defensive help.

Dubas inherited a unique situation that any GM would have a tough time navigating, with not one but THREE big ticket RFAs due for deals in a short amount of time and the opportunity to sign a franchise center in Tavares that rarely ever hits the market.

A lot of these other teams like Colorado (Rantanen), Carolina (Aho), Vancouver (Boeser), Tampa (Point) only have to deal with one big ticket RFA. Big whoop. Give those same GMs THREE of them to deal with and see how much better a job they do.

 

[Mess]

That Dubas offersheet question was perfectly handled. Directly singling to Marner that if he tries to use an offersheet as leverage theres a good chance he will be shipped out of town.

Marner way more than Nylander and Matthew's is vulnerable to that fear.

Dubas comment actually cuts both ways as it opens the door to teams thinking they can successfully steal Marner away with the right offer sheet as Leafs would "consider" their options, based on the amount $ and the return.

Whereas a firm and definitive "We will match any and all offers" sends the message to the league that Marner is not going anywhere, so don't waste your time with an offersheet as it will be matched 100%.

Dubas comments might in fact have just invited an OS, but perhaps that was his goal/agenda thinking Marner is asking too much for Leafs salary cap, and so 4 X 1sts comp picks might be the best return he could get vs any trade scenario.

Also Marner signing an OS and leaving makes Mitch the greedy bad guy and not Dubas, as opposed to Kyle dealing Marner away as his choice and then the return being all on Dubas thereafter.

 

[Matthews34]

What is the fair number for Marner?

 

[GrunbeldDragonKnight]

Amazing at some of the excuses some have for Boy Wonder. Sakic a fool, held out on Duchene and made out like a bandit. Yzerman never blinked with Stamkos negotiations and signed him for $3M less than Matthews. If Dubas was not man enough, Shanny should not have hired him.

Agreed this team will never win if we pay our players more than the competition does.

In reality here is what the salaries should look like:

Nylander 5.5 Million
Marner 7 Million
Matthews 8.5

These guys are paid like multiple time Stanley Cup Champions. Its embarrassing and weird.

 

[GrunbeldDragonKnight]

What is the fair number for Marner?

8.75. Shouldn't be a cent more than Kutcherov.

 

[The Iceman]

That's one way of looking at it. The other way would be that they didn't necessarily need to sign Tavares! Don't get me wrong, he is a premier talent but in terms of rounding out the team I don't think his signing helped. There was more than enough scoring punch with Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Kapanen and Kadri and the team had glaring holes on defense. Tavares' $11M would've gone a long way towards signing the big three RFA's and getting some defensive help.

Ask yourself.
Tavares and 4 firsts
or
Marner??

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Deep down, I truly believe we'll get a deal done but we aren't going to love the deal.

Like... we aren't getting an 8 yr deal at $9.5M. Maybe we get a 6 yr at $11.16M or something. It'll happen and on one hand we'll be happy and relieved he's staying and other the other we'll be a little disappointed and upset at the numbers.

Probably lose Kapanen in the process as well.

If Marner signs a 11.16 x 6 year deal in Toronto I will be firmly on the fire Dubas asap train.

That would be one of the worst overpayments in history for an RFA.

 

[ToneDog]

Agreed this team will never win if we pay our players more than the competition does.

In reality here is what the salaries should look like:

Nylander 5.5 Million
Marner 7 Million
Matthews 8.5

These guys are paid like multiple time Stanley Cup Champions. Its embarrassing and weird.

You might be light. AM slotted with Eich, Nylander with Ehlers and Marner with Draisaitl. Many thought it would take between 22 and 26 to get the 3 done, not 30+. The Leafs have f***ed it up royally.

 

[ToneDog]

If Marner signs a 11.16 x 6 year deal in Toronto I will be firmly on the fire Dubas asap train.

That would be one of the worst overpayments in history for an RFA.

After Dubas botched the Nylander deal, who thought he would follow up by botching the Matthews and Marner deals. He now needs to make some one sided deals to right the ship or he will start feeling the heat if this team starts slowly and fails to make the playoffs.