Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VI | Marner Reportedly Turns Down 8 Year Term

[SniperOnTheWing]

Dubas inherited a unique situation that any GM would have a tough time navigating, with not one but THREE big ticket RFAs due for deals in a short amount of time and the opportunity to sign a franchise center in Tavares that rarely ever hits the market.

A lot of these other teams like Colorado (Rantanen), Carolina (Aho), Vancouver (Boeser), Tampa (Point) only have to deal with one big ticket RFA. Big whoop. Give those same GMs THREE of them to deal with and see how much better a job they do.

 

[Face Of Bear]

At this point I think we'd be best off trying to sign him for 1-3 years and taking whatever cap savings we can. We'd have to pay him more later but it gives the roster some time to evolve and might save us from making a bad trade or two to move cap space.

 

[Stigma]

Dubas inherited a unique situation that any GM would have a tough time navigating, with not one but THREE big ticket RFAs due for deals in a short amount of time and the opportunity to sign a franchise center in Tavares that rarely ever hits the market.

A lot of these other teams like Colorado (Rantanen), Carolina (Aho), Vancouver (Boeser), Tampa (Point) only have to deal with one big ticket RFA. Big whoop. Give those same GMs THREE of them to deal with and see how much better a job they do.

Good post.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Best if Marner sits out? The guy is 22 and put up 26 goals and 68 assists. 52 of those assists were primary; only behind McDavid and kucherov.

I want Marner to settle for a reasonable contract as much as the next guy, but to suggest " its best" if marner sits out a year is foolish.

Guy plays PP, PK and is our most dangerous winger. Imagine a hawks fan said it would be best if patty kane sits out a year?

Meant that it's not going to be a productive year with Babcock still coaching this team.

 

[crackdown44]

babcock said it himself during the Nylander negotiations

“We’re not begging anyone to be a Leaf. It’s a privilege to be here, for me and for everybody else.”

Leafs loosen up in great outdoors at Gardiner Classic | The Star

Says the highest paid coach in NHL history lol

 

[Dragao6]

At this point I think we'd be best off trying to sign him for 1-3 years and taking whatever cap savings we can. We'd have to pay him more later but it gives the roster some time to evolve and might save us from making a bad trade or two to move cap space.

Im for this also. How much more will he ask for in three years then 11.6M lol if thats true. Matthews will still be on 11.6 hopefully scoring 40+. For marner to match him he would have to consistantly be a 100pts guy cause he aint scoring 40+. I like this option.
Im hoping for something in 9'sM but id be fine to get this over with and agree to eichel money for 8 years. I think i read somewhere leafs agree to aav as long as marner agrees to 8 years, hope this is the case

Or like i said before, offersheet laine 9.5M and let marner walk

 

[selltrade]

Its fair to say that Mitch is either a 3 year bridge deal or a 8 year max deal.. with AM and WN's contracts up in 5 yrs and JT in 6, its either 3 or 8. Have to spread these out.

 

[Bluelines]

There's no issue with elite players being able to have leverage negotiate a contract.

There is an issue when you have players who have one year at elite level performance (Mitch for example) with no history of consistent performance at the NHL level demanding 11 million plus and you have a guy like Karlson who has 10 years experience, 8 of those at an elite level, multiple Norris Trophies, multiple Norris runner ups, multiple All Star games, signing a similar dollar value contract.

Don't get me wrong I think Mitch is a phenomenal talent but for Karlsson to have to play 10 years to get his retirement contract and Mitch to only play 3 and get a similar contract, is simply not fair to those players who have had to toil for years to get to the same point. Karlsson is proven commodity, Mitch as great as he is is not.

For GM's how do you build a constantly competitive team, when as soon as your player has developed into a star he is getting a max contract or the threat that he leaves through an offer sheet. The purpose of the previous strike/lockout (from owners perspective) was to control the ever inflating salaries, the current rules do not do this adequately, which is why in the next CBA, I think the league will demand every new player is on a 5 or 6 year entry deal at league min salary.

If I had my preference the cap would be completely gone.

 

[Dog]

Bye bye Mitchy is my guess!

 

[Bluelines]

Its fair to say that Mitch is either a 3 year bridge deal or a 8 year max deal.. with AM and WN's contracts up in 5 yrs and JT in 6, its either 3 or 8. Have to spread these out.

Bridge deals are dead ... the risk is taken entirely by the player. Agents and the NHPLA do not like that approach. If you are an elite player like Mitch is, you leverage the threat of an offer sheet to get what you want. Leafs will not sign a 5 year deal. Like you said the Leafs will push to buy some UFA years.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

There is an issue when you have players who have one year at elite level performance (Mitch for example) with no history of consistent performance at the NHL level demanding 11 million plus and you have a guy like Karlson who has 10 years experience, 8 of those at an elite level, multiple Norris Trophies, multiple Norris runner ups, multiple All Star games, signing a similar dollar value contract.

Don't get me wrong I think Mitch is a phenomenal talent but for Karlsson to have to play 10 years to get his retirement contract and Mitch to only play 3 and get a similar contract, is simply not fair to those players who have had to toil for years to get to the same point. Karlsson is proven commodity, Mitch as great as he is is not.

For GM's how do you build a constantly competitive team, when as soon as your player has developed into a star he is getting a max contract or the threat that he leaves through an offer sheet. The purpose of the previous strike/lockout (from owners perspective) was to control the ever inflating salaries, the current rules do not do this adequately, which is why in the next CBA, I think the league will demand every new player is on a 5 or 6 year entry deal at league min salary.

If I had my preference the cap would be completely gone.

There is absolutely no problem with players demanding what they want. If teams don't want to pay it, they don't have to. If a team loses an RFA, they get compensation. If Marner is not worth that amount (btw no one said he demands $11m, that's just generally poor comprehension), then the Leafs would do well to let him go for compensation or he can sit.

There are checks and balances for all these things. Nothing wrong at all here.

 

[X66]

Dubas inherited a unique situation that any GM would have a tough time navigating, with not one but THREE big ticket RFAs due for deals in a short amount of time and the opportunity to sign a franchise center in Tavares that rarely ever hits the market.

A lot of these other teams like Colorado (Rantanen), Carolina (Aho), Vancouver (Boeser), Tampa (Point) only have to deal with one big ticket RFA. Big whoop. Give those same GMs THREE of them to deal with and see how much better a job they do.

This is exactly it.

What was the last team that had these types of rfas within a year of each other?

Also because the raps won and it’s a huge bucket list thing for me, nothing is bothering me with the leafs this offseason lol.

 

[Menzinger]

That Dubas offersheet question was perfectly handled. Directly singling to Marner that if he tries to use an offersheet as leverage theres a good chance he will be shipped out of town.

Marner way more than Nylander and Matthew's is vulnerable to that fear.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Any progress in regards to talks with Mitch Marner and how things are progressing this week?
Dubas: Yeah, we are talking with all of them. We’ve got Mitch, Kasperi Kapanen, Andreas Johnsson… We are continuing to work away at that. We will keep all of those details private. Everything that has happened so far — that’s what we’ve intended to do. We’ve kept it all to ourselves and I think that’s what everyone has wanted. Out of respect for the process, we will continue to do that.

Mitch is being vilified on Twitter, social media. Some people are remarking on how greedy he might be — those kinds of negative terms that we saw with William Nylander last year. Are you worried about his reputation and doing what is best for him?
Dubas: For me, Mitch Marner’s reputation is beyond reproach. He has played for our club for three years. He comes to the rink every day with the exact same attitude. Great energy. Loves hockey. Loves playing in Toronto. He is a great member of the community and does a lot in the community.

I get that these matters become complex because of the number of dollars that are in play. People hear them, whether they are factual are not, and they begin to draw certain conclusions about players and what their motives are. I think when it comes to Mitch Marner or even going back to William Nylander, anybody who is being negative about him is really way off, especially when you consider the type of person that he is and the type of character that he has and everything he has done for our organization and also what he does in the community.
I would hope that people don’t get that way. I would encourage them not to be that way at all.

The clock is ticking towards July 1. Is there pressure with that looming?
Dubas: I think the reality is that it’s as I said at the end of the season. We, of course, would like to have all these done quickly, but if you look around at all the other teams here, everyone is in a similar spot. There is nothing really getting done and nothing moving. Why that is I’m not sure. I think it is just the sheer volume of RFAs and the uncertainty with the salary cap and where it is at. I would expect in the coming week or so there will be some movement. That is what we are hoping for. I don’t sense that there is any real pressure. We will continue to do what is right for our organization and roll from there.

Kyle Dubas: "I’d rather, if we are going to pay our players, pay our top guys and then force our staff to get creative around the edges of the team" | Maple Leafs Hotstove

 

[Notsince67]

If you look at points totals up to the point they signed/should sign, Marner’s contract should be $9.1m x 6 years, assuming a cap of $83m for 2019/20.

Up to signing:-
WN had 135 points in 185 games (0.73 ppg)
MM had 224 points in 241 games (0.92 ppg)

WN signed for 6.96m for 6 years (8.75% of cap)

Just using points MM should get 0.92/0.73 x 8.75% = 11%.

11% x $83m = $9.1m over 6 years.

why weight year one points ghe same as last year points? Because you care little about how they will score in the future and want to enter an argument
with zero to
Offer.

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[Erndog]

You know what's disappointing? Just how severely everyone, (we the fans, media, Dubas and co) overplayed their hand at this.

I remember for over a year here on these boards we would always see 10/7/7 in regards to re-signing AM, WN, and MM. I remember distinctly reading and thinking 'ah, $24M give or take to get all 3 signed.'

Man, were we every off. That $24M comes in at AM and MM alone more or less. Crazy how much everyone misjudged this.

 

[DKH]

There is an issue when you have players who have one year at elite level performance (Mitch for example) with no history of consistent performance at the NHL level demanding 11 million plus and you have a guy like Karlson who has 10 years experience, 8 of those at an elite level, multiple Norris Trophies, multiple Norris runner ups, multiple All Star games, signing a similar dollar value contract.

Don't get me wrong I think Mitch is a phenomenal talent but for Karlsson to have to play 10 years to get his retirement contract and Mitch to only play 3 and get a similar contract, is simply not fair to those players who have had to toil for years to get to the same point. Karlsson is proven commodity, Mitch as great as he is is not.

For GM's how do you build a constantly competitive team, when as soon as your player has developed into a star he is getting a max contract or the threat that he leaves through an offer sheet. The purpose of the previous strike/lockout (from owners perspective) was to control the ever inflating salaries, the current rules do not do this adequately, which is why in the next CBA, I think the league will demand every new player is on a 5 or 6 year entry deal at league min salary.

If I had my preference the cap would be completely gone.

The Cap goes so does competitive balance and likely franchises

Toronto could have $200 M payroll but half the league would be under a 1/3 of that and likely fail

There is only so much ‘food’ on the table and when 6 or so people take 80% of it more are going to go hungry

This is a mess

As a Bruins fan I feel bad for the Leafs realizing it could be us and it may be us if McAvoy decides he wants to swing for the fences

The league is looking at an explosive situation

The best scenario for Marner is get paid a huge amount ($11 M) on a short term deal and be a UFA at 26

Great for Marner bad for diehard Leafs fans and the game

 

[Bluelines]

The Cap goes so does competitive balance and likely franchises

Toronto could have $200 M payroll but half the league would be under a 1/3 of that and likely fail

There is only so much ‘food’ on the table and when 6 or so people take 80% of it more are going to go hungry

This is a mess

As a Bruins fan I feel bad for the Leafs realizing it could be us and it may be us if McAvoy decides he wants to swing for the fences

The league is looking at an explosive situation

The best scenario for Marner is get paid a huge amount ($11 M) on a short term deal and be a UFA at 26

Great for Marner bad for diehard Leafs fans and the game

Agree with everything you say but at the same time there has to be a correlating competitive advantage to being one of the richer team besides a good P&L.

 

[CDN24]

This is exactly it.

What was the last team that had these types of rfas within a year of each other?

Also because the raps won and it’s a huge bucket list thing for me, nothing is bothering me with the leafs this offseason lol.

The Hawks had Kane Toews and keith all becoming RFA on June 30,2010. Being proactive they signed both the centre Toews and the winger Kane to the same contract extension on Dec 2 2009 (same $ and same term). Well before deadline- same money to the two stars. Then the next day they signed Keith to his extension. Got them all done well before they became RFA and then won the cup.

 

[Walshy7]

Haha that is funny if true. Why would he like that? I know it’s not directed at marner or anything but it’s funny. It must be an accidental like.

 

[Cotton]

Kyle Dubas: "I’d rather, if we are going to pay our players, pay our top guys and then force our staff to get creative around the edges of the team" | Maple Leafs Hotstove

"Creative around the edges", meaning filling out the roster around your giant contracts with ELC's and Ennis-like free agent signings who are practically playing for free because they have something to prove.

This is what I've been fearing, Dubas is turning us into Pittsburgh; top heavy with no flexibility.

Sweet jesus, he needs to stop every RFA and their agent from playing keep away with his sack and make some difficult decisions, and soon.

 

[DKH]

Agree with everything you say but at the same time there has to be a correlating competitive advantage to being one of the richer team besides a good P&L.

If the Rangers and Leafs end up with a competitive advantage on ice the league will lose franchises

There has to be equal playing field

Many Fans won’t invest time and money in that type of system

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

"Creative around the edges", meaning filling out the roster around your giant contracts with ELC's and Ennis-like free agent signings who are practically playing for free because they have something to prove.

This is what I've been fearing, Dubas is turning us into Pittsburgh; top heavy with no flexibility.

Sweet jesus, he needs to stop every RFA and their agent from playing keep away with his sack and make some difficult decisions, and soon.

Oh no he's employing a salary cap structure that involves retaining elite young players and has been deployed by teams who had young elite players that kept them perennial contenders for a decade and won multiple cups each! Someone save us!

 

[ToneDog]

Dubas inherited a unique situation that any GM would have a tough time navigating, with not one but THREE big ticket RFAs due for deals in a short amount of time and the opportunity to sign a franchise center in Tavares that rarely ever hits the market.

A lot of these other teams like Colorado (Rantanen), Carolina (Aho), Vancouver (Boeser), Tampa (Point) only have to deal with one big ticket RFA. Big whoop. Give those same GMs THREE of them to deal with and see how much better a job they do.

So Shanny is to blame for hiring a boy to do a man's job ???