Salary Cap: Mitch Marner Contract Discussion Part VI | Marner Reportedly Turns Down 8 Year Term

[A1LeafNation]

It's going to be funny seeing Tavares play with Hyman and Moore as his wingers next year. I wonder if they featured in the promo video

Hyman Matthews Nylander
Johnsson Tavares Kapanen
Moore Kadri Mikheyev
Engvall Gauthier Brown

We will be fine. Maybe its best if Marner sits out the year in our cap crunch year.

 

[ORRFForever]

What if the only reason you're out performing the A.M employee is because he takes sick days?

Not sure that's true. Marner's PPG was higher than Matthews this year, wasn't it?

Plus, isn't an employee who doesn't need sick days more valuable?

 

[biotk]

Suppose you were working for a wealthy company and you see management pay an employee with the initials A.M., who takes a TON of sick days every year, and who you out performed the last 2 years, $116,000.

Then suppose you see that same company pay a useless employee (with the initials W.N.) $66,000.

The company then comes to you and says, "We'd like to pay you the same as A.M., since you produce the same and you never take a sick day, but we don't have the money in the budget. We hope you understand."

Would you understand or would you say "Screw you! I want the same as A.M. and way more than W.N.!!!" Most people would choose the latter. I know I would.

What if the company said that AM deserve more because he produces his work by himself and while you produce as much it is because you are working with a co-worker who we will call JT?

 

[hockeywiz542]

The Maple Leafs may not match any offer sheet for Mitch...

“I think it would really depend on any of the players,” Dubas said, referring not only to Marner, but the Leafs’ other two pending restricted free agents, Kasperi Kapanen and Andreas Johnsson. “It’s not just one guy. We’ve got a number of them. And if there were an offer sheet, we would look at what they are and what the compensation is for our team and make the decision based off of that. I think they’re all very important players for us and so, it’s our intention that they’re all here for as long as we can possibly keep them. But if the dollar amount doesn’t make sense, both in terms of our internal economics and the marketplace and the compensation as such, it’s going to be a decision on our end as to what we do. I wouldn’t know one way or another without knowing more about where those are going to land — if they happen.”

It was a pretty striking shift from six months earlier.

What it illustrates, perhaps, is just how turned up things have gotten since in the negotiations with Marner, that the 22-year-old’s price tag may end up rising just enough that the Leafs could actually pot the draft picks and cap space and move on. That prospect still seems unlikely. The Leafs, as Dubas has said repeatedly, don’t want to lose Marner and Marner clearly would like to remain with the Leafs.

But if the number is too high? If it meets and maybe even exceeds the $11.634 million cap hit that came with Matthews’ five-year deal, if it makes Marner the highest-paid winger in hockey, then maybe the Leafs will just walk away. Maybe. Letting the likable, bubbly, hometown kid who just piled up more points than any Leaf since Mats Sundin, letting that guy walk away wouldn’t be an easy stance to take.

Maybe Dubas is just sending out a warning to Marner that if he signs an offer sheet, he better be prepared to really leave the team he grew up rooting for, to ultimately play for more money elsewhere.

“I hope it doesn’t ever come to that,” Dubas concluded. “I hope we can all continue to work together, and we’re appreciative of all their efforts so far. But I also don’t think it benefits to shy away from the fact that that may happen.”

 

[ORRFForever]

You implied AM isn't worth his contract because he takes "sick days"...so that means if Marner gets injured in the future, he isn't worth his contract either.

No. I'm saying : An employee who isn't sick all the time deserves credit.

Anyway, this will play itself out, how it plays itself out, and won't change my life one bit so... I'm off to bed, boys.

 

[Buds17]

I doubt it would change your perspective as an employee. You would want what's fair.

Would depend on a willingness to go to a rival company. My point was more that even if the Leafs wanted to spend beyond the salary cap, they ultimately cannot do so. Fair is also subjective in this case. A player can ask for whatever they'd like...as long as a team is willing to pay it.

 

[Caesium]

Staying healthy is a skill. Every Toronto fan is going to cringe every time Matthews goes shoulder first into the glass for the rest of his career. Shoulders get easier and easier to injure the more they get banged up.

 

[ORRFForever]

What if the company said that AM deserve more because he produces his work by himself and while you produce as much it is because you are working with a co-worker who we will call JT?

LOL! That would be a fair point.

But, then again, I would say A.M. sure does take a TON of sick days and I don't. Also, I would mention that I work thru my lunch, which A.M. does not do, and we'll call that the P.K.

 

[hector morrison]

It's hard to be completely accurate with any scenario but, hopefully, it helps people see Marner's perspective.

Again, if it was me, I would happily take "a bird in hand" and sleep well knowing I will be making $11M for the next 8 years.

My reality says ...how much does it affect your lifestyle? a few million out of 70 or 80 or 90 over 7 0r 8 years ....seriosly,what could be lacking in your world. Lets say you never win your whole career,but made 80 million ,is that better than winning and making 70 million? I don't know about the kids,but my name on the cup is hard to put a price on.

i'm sure it would be difficult to prove the circumstances would lead to my conclusions,but sometimes things are plain to see! When Mitch sees Kappy and /or Johnsson replaced with less talented players,is he gonna complain? Or if Kadri and Brown are replaced by rookies and it becomes apparent that this year and maybe next are a "work in progress',what then? I guess they don't care that much?

 

[ORRFForever]

Would depend on a willingness to go to a rival company.

True. If you don't get what you want, you have to be willing to walk.

 

[Superstar]

My reality says ...how much does it affect your lifestyle? a few million out of 70 or 80 or 90 over 7 0r 8 years ....seriosly,what could be lacking in your world. Lets say you never win your whole career,but made 80 million ,is that better than winning and making 70 million? I don't know about the kids,but my name on the cup is hard to put a price on.

i'm sure it would be difficult to prove the circumstances would lead to my conclusions,but sometimes things are plain to see! When Mitch sees Kappy and /or Johnsson replaced with less talented players,is he gonna complain? Or if Kadri and Brown are replaced by rookies and it becomes apparent that this year and maybe next are a "work in progress',what then? I guess they don't care that much?

They like to say they care about winning...that's all that matters, right?

 

[ORRFForever]

My reality says ...how much does it affect your lifestyle? a few million out of 70 or 80 or 90 over 7 0r 8 years ....seriosly,what could be lacking in your world. Lets say you never win your whole career,but made 80 million ,is that better than winning and making 70 million? I don't know about the kids,but my name on the cup is hard to put a price on.

That's true...

But suppose Matthews and Marner go to a Strip Club and they both take a dancer to the VIP section. Now, if you're Marner, it might be embarrassing if you have to leave early while Matthews continues to have his fun, because you only make $11M/yr while A.M. makes $11.6M.

I know that would bother me.

 

[biotk]

I'm not at quite the place you are in because I absolutely love watching hockey. Any hockey. However, I have viewed players this way for years except for a very select few. They want the money first and foremost, especially early on. Later in their careers they seem more likely to take less to win because the reality of never winning sets in. However, I will almost always side with owners/orgs. in situations like this or most any other. I realize they are all out for the money, but most organizations true goal is to win above all else, that's not the main true goal of most players.

Yeah, I wish I could get back to loving watching hockey again. WJCs are generally great. Normally watching Buffalo is enough to make me irritated and depressed. But this year watching Toronto in the second half was also really frustrating and depressing. I didn't watch a minute of hockey after the Leafs were eliminated and, in all seriousness, knowing that I making the choice to not watch hockey was actually making me happier than I had been while watching hockey…..

I feel like, as with most things in my life, I go 100% all in and then it starts to cause problems.

 

[ORRFForever]

Anyway, again, I am off to bed. Let's hope Marner gets signed.

 

[biotk]

LOL! That would be a fair point.

But, then again, I would say A.M. sure does take a TON of sick days and I don't. Also, I would mention that I work thru my lunch, which A.M. does not do, and we'll call that the P.K.

AM would like to work through his lunch. Sick days will be there when MM needs them, as was the case during their first year on the job.

 

[hector morrison]

Yeah I could definitely see that happening. After all it was the new Leaf kids who got me to start watching the Leafs (Buffalo was my team) a couple weeks into the rookie seasons of the big three. For me it was actually just a salesperson showing up at my door and offering an extremely great tv package at a time when a lot of free time in the evenings had appeared in my life. I hadn't had TV in a decade (and I had to buy a new one because my old dusty one was one of those 50 pounders). A couple days later I was looking for something to watch, stumbled across a hockey game and started watching. My wife was surprised - I had been with her a decade and she had just assumed that I was not a hockey fan, and I assumed that she was not a hockey fan - because neither one of us had ever mentioned the game. So we started watching games, and then we also started going to a lot of games (predominantly AHL), but she being smarter than I am started to sour on watching hockey early this season.

Nice...the refs were a reminder of why I lost interest originally. Not a Sabres fan(don't hate them) ,but been to tons of games...closer and cheaper than T.O. ...always had fun there...Well,I guess it will depend on what I'm into and upto in the fall,but was starting to feel like I shoul;d be doing something better with my time.The radio was cool because I could still tune in while doing sonmething else and catch some hi-lites later maybe...also,Bowen and Ralph are wonderful homers!!!

 

[hector morrison]

They like to say they care about winning...that's all that matters, right?

It's looking that way from a fans perspective..

 

[Divine]

Not sure that's true. Marner's PPG was higher than Matthews this year, wasn't it?

Plus, isn't an employee who doesn't need sick days more valuable?

So 1/3 years you outperformed him and you want more?

Depends, do you value regular season points or playoff points?

 

[hector morrison]

That's true...

But suppose Matthews and Marner go to a Strip Club and they both take a dancer to the VIP section. Now, if you're Marner, it might be embarrassing if you have to leave early while Matthews continues to have his fun, because you only make $11M/yr while A.M. makes $11.6M.

I know that would bother me.

Ego is the enemy!If there can only be one....who stays? Love the kid...but i choose Austin as the more valuable asset...therefore worth more money...if Mitchys dad can't get that ,then adios...!

 

[Gabriel426]

LOL! That would be a fair point.

But, then again, I would say A.M. sure does take a TON of sick days and I don't. Also, I would mention that I work thru my lunch, which A.M. does not do, and we'll call that the P.K.

But they are in different departments. Matthews is in sales(goals) and Marner is in HR(assists). Sales always get paid more than HR.

 

[hector morrison]

LOL! That would be a fair point.

But, then again, I would say A.M. sure does take a TON of sick days and I don't. Also, I would mention that I work thru my lunch, which A.M. does not do, and we'll call that the P.K.

Perhaps an arbitrator would seek other companies in the same business for comparison...and so on.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Didn't his agent say he wants Matthews money? That's 11M+ .....

Not as far as I know. It was Bob or Dreger that said he believes that Marner’s camp believes Marner is worth every bit as Matthews.

When an insider says they “believe” it is not coming from insider information. They are just speculating how they think the Marner camp would be handling the negotiations.

 

[Shayne Corsi]

I was a huge Kyle Dubas fan when he was promoted to GM, but he has proven grossly incompetent vis-a-vis retaining our young stars. These are RFAs ffs - we own them until they're 27. If they want to sit for a half decade and forego tens of millions of dollars, that's their prerogative. I hated that we caved to Nylander, and sure enough it's completely torpedoed subsequent negotiations. The timing was off, and Dubas simply failed to use the massive leverage he had at his disposal. What a debacle.

 

[hector morrison]

But they are in different departments. Matthews is in sales(goals) and Marner is in HR(assists). Sales always get paid more than HR.

Mathews is the 'closer'...worth more to be sure !

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

According to CJ, Marner isn’t going to be visiting cities about offersheets due to the bad PR he’d get from it. Will still take calls thought.

CJ said talks aren’t really close right now. Thinks it gets done eventually, but the Leafs likely won’t like the number.

Can you confirm that you used the same level of comprehension to come up with this post as you did to make this initial thread title?