Player Discussion Mitch Marner, Continued

[francis246]

You can bump the player what do you mean slow him down how ? Are you joking ?


He was on the wrong side of the ice should he have left his side of the ice to help these guys do their job?

I went back to watch the play, there is zero chance Marner would have been able to bump Pastrnak. It was a dump in from the red line on the left side of the ice, he would have got called for interference or a trip at the speed Pastrnak was going at. Secondly, Marner was puck watching (if you want to put blame on him for something it would be that. He was watching the dump in and wasn't even facing Pastrnak's direction to see him sneak behind him very fast. The one guy who was facing forward and could see that play developing was Rielly. But unfortunately Rielly was WAY too high and he could not react in time. I don't want to shit on Nylander too much, but if he does 3 or 4 hard strides he probably disrupts that play as well. He floated in. Like I said, break down's on everyone's part but i wouldn't blame on one person.

 

[Nineteen67]

Not a chance. Athletes are conditioned to stay in the moment, looking forward 6 months serves no purpose.

Working towards the playoffs everyday of their lives.

 

[notdoneyet]

He hasn’t earned a thing in my books I saw someone who couldn’t deliver time and time again when we needed him to and last year was probably his worst showing in the playoffs my opinion anyway like I said I hope he can Over come his fear this year he shouldn’t be afraid of the playoffs at this point it’s going on 8 years so hopefully he’s ready

Last playoffs he was coming off a high ankle sprain and he was the only one who showed up
One guy had a migraine and missed games. I have bad migraines and I go to the hospital and get an IV and drugs and by the time the IV is done the migraine is gone. Nylander who has the best doctors in the world missed half the playoffs
And matthews our savior had an undisclosed injury and missed half the playoffs
But yep keep spinning the crap about how marner is solely responsible for our playoff defeat

I’m tired of hearing marner doesn’t show up in the playoffs and our other two greedy bastards haven’t done shit all
To contribute to a successful playoff’s as much as people spin this narrative

Our biggest culprit has been poor goaltending who can’t make the great save when needed

Maybe this year things change

For all those posters who keep bashing this team please feel free to go root for whatever bandwagon team you can find

 

[thewave]

Last playoffs he was coming off a high ankle sprain and he was the only one who showed up
One guy had a migraine and missed games. I have bad migraines and I go to the hospital and get an IV and drugs and by the time the IV is done the migraine is gone. Nylander who has the best doctors in the world missed half the playoffs
And matthews our savior had an undisclosed injury and missed half the playoffs
But yep keep spinning the crap about how marner is solely responsible for our playoff defeat

I’m tired of hearing marner doesn’t show up in the playoffs and our other two greedy bastards haven’t done shit all
To contribute to a successful playoff’s as much as people spin this narrative

Our biggest culprit has been poor goaltending who can’t make the great save when needed

Maybe this year things change

For all those posters who keep bashing this team please feel free to go root for whatever bandwagon team you can find

High ankle sprain.

Please explain why he literally played a 30 minute game just before the series. How does one go from nursing a sprain to playing an insane 30mins just games before the series he shit the bed in.

Sounds like an excuse. He showed up the first games and faded in the elimination games again.

 

[Confucius]

Not a chance. Athletes are conditioned to stay in the moment, looking forward 6 months serves no purpose.

One game at a time, is what I always heard

 

[thusk]

High ankle sprain.

Please explain why he literally played a 30 minute game just before the series. How does one go from nursing a sprain to playing an insane 30mins just games before the series he shit the bed in.

Sounds like an excuse. He showed up the first games and faded in the elimination games again.

High angke sprain, after a time you can get back and walking/ skating but doesn't mean you get back all your flexibility. You can play 20-30min but you will not play 20-30 m at 100%

They're some player in skilled position in football who's struggle pretty hard and needed a ton of time just to get back at their level and some player fail to ever get it back

 

[thewave]

High angke sprain, after a time you can get back and walking/ skating but doesn't mean you get back all your flexibility. You can play 20-30min but you will not play 20-30 m at 100%

They're some player in skilled position in football who's struggle pretty hard and needed a ton of time just to get back at their level and some player fail to ever get it back

But why stress it if you don't have to? It just doesn't make sense leading into the playoffs. What is the point of the added risk?

I don't think it was an issue at that point personally.

 

[Confucius]

But why stress it if you don't have to? It just doesn't make sense leading into the playoffs. What is the point of the added risk?

I don't think it was an issue at that point personally.

Everybody wanted 70, even the coach I’d bet.

 

[thewave]

Everybody wanted 70, even the coach I’d bet.

Partly because of that for sure. Sadly it is likely also the reason 70 didn't happen

 

[thusk]

But why stress it if you don't have to? It just doesn't make sense leading into the playoffs. What is the point of the added risk?

I don't think it was an issue at that point personally.

Doesn't mean add risk, ankle can be fully recovery without get back his flexibility.

The same way wxemple if you're broking you're shoulder.... Yes you will need the time to heal your bone but doesn't mean you will be at 100% when it will be the case. Your will need time to get back your strwnght and flexibility and maybe you will never get it back at 100%. I think it's the part you don't understand.

We don't talk about a robot where you just need to repair and you come back brand new, it's not how thing working and some injury are worst thsn other

 

[Confucius]

Doesn't mean add risk, ankle can be fully recovery without get back his flexibility.

The same way wxemple if you're broking you're shoulder.... Yes you will need the time to heal your bone but doesn't mean you will be at 100% when it will be the case. Your will need time to get back your strwnght and flexibility and maybe you will never get it back at 100%. I think it's the part you don't understand.

We don't talk about a robot where you just need to repair and you come back brand new, it's not how thing working and some injury are worst thsn other

It would be very difficult to make your first appearance back, a playoff game. Plan probably was to ease back into it with limited playing time. Well that went out the window.

 

[Menzinger]

Pasta signed for about 13.4% last year. Even if one wants to argue that was a discount, 14% of next year's cap will still likely be under 13 mil.

While I won't be surprised if the eventual deal is in the 13-14 mil aav range, there's no real way that can be justified.

I think Marner can potentially even win the PR war if he signs a long term extension starting with a 12. If his camp pushes over 13.theyre going to have to just sit and deal with all the external noise that's going to come with it.

It's an awful system that pits fans against players, but unfortunately it's the one we have

 

[diceman934]

Other posters have often called you out for this.

You latch onto minuscule errors and attack those, even when the main points still hold. This isn't anyone's day job, so it'absolutely ridiculous.

I've shared detailed stats with dates and years attached, but you didn’t respond. Instead, you wait until I’m quickly summarizing to pounce on tiny errors that don't change the argument.

My stats are filtered to ensure fair comparisons.

For example:
- In 2017, Matthews led the league in 5v5 goals per 60 among players with at least 1000 minutes played.
- Guentzel, by contrast, played around 500 minutes that year.
- Even if Matthews was 2nd.. who cares lol, it doesn't change the point.

You Marner supporters and your moving goalposts: you dismiss stats unfavorable to Marner as having "too small a sample size" but ignore sample size when it helps your argument. Marner played 500 mins with Tavares and I was told it's too small a sample size. Yet... Guentzals 500 mins 5v5 g/60 is okay to use and compare to players playing 1000-1200 mins.

The argument still stands:

Matthews led the league in 5v5 goals per 60 in two of his first three seasons without Marner as his linemate. In his third year, he ranked 6th in 5v5 goal scoring and 11th in points per 60 while primarily playing with Marleau, Johnsson, and Kapanen. As his linemates. He was significantly more productive goal scoring with Domi last year than he was with Marner.

Last year Domi had 9 primary assists 5v5 with Matthews in 209 mins.

Marner has 16 primary assists in 720 mins.

If Domi wouldve played 720 mins at his primary assist pace with Matthews, that would be 31 primary assists. Double Marners!

Additionally, It's reasonable to expect a player to be more productive in their mid-20s than in their early years. Matthews was the leagues best 5v5 per 60 in his first few NHL years WITHOUT Marner, its reasonable to expect that Matthews would be even better in his prime when Marner began playing with him.

If Domi played that many minutes his assist 5 on 5 primary would drop.

You like ifs and buts. If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.

 

[thewave]

Pasta signed for about 13.4% last year. Even if one wants to argue that was a discount, 14% of next year's cap will still likely be under 13 mil.

While I won't be surprised if the eventual deal is in the 13-14 mil aav range, there's no real way that can be justified.

I think Marner can potentially even win the PR war if he signs a long term extension starting with a 12. If his camp pushes over 13.theyre going to have to just sit and deal with all the external noise that's going to come with it.

It's an awful system that pits fans against players, but unfortunately it's the one we have

92m projected.

13% is 12m which I think is close to Nylander money as a %. That would be the max but I would rather wait until the playoffs are over.

Probably be a wartime economy by the end of the season anyways. No point in signing a long term anything. I wouldn't.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Last playoffs he was coming off a high ankle sprain and he was the only one who showed up
One guy had a migraine and missed games. I have bad migraines and I go to the hospital and get an IV and drugs and by the time the IV is done the migraine is gone. Nylander who has the best doctors in the world missed half the playoffs
And matthews our savior had an undisclosed injury and missed half the playoffs

Despite the missed games, they still outproduced Marner vs Boston. He played every game, but he didn't do a whole lot. Not sure how anyone can defend his performance last year

Our biggest culprit has been poor goaltending who can’t make the great save when needed

No. The biggest culprit has been lack of offense. In the last 14 playoff games, only once did they score more than 2 goals (and it was 3). You're not winning anything if you struggle to score 3+

 

[francis246]

Also

Pasta signed for about 13.4% last year. Even if one wants to argue that was a discount, 14% of next year's cap will still likely be under 13 mil.

While I won't be surprised if the eventual deal is in the 13-14 mil aav range, there's no real way that can be justified.

I think Marner can potentially even win the PR war if he signs a long term extension starting with a 12. If his camp pushes over 13.theyre going to have to just sit and deal with all the external noise that's going to come with it.

It's an awful system that pits fans against players, but unfortunately it's the one we have

Posted this a few days ago but it’s horse crap that in 2024 we have the same cap system that was introduced in 2005. No other league has to deal with the hyper-fixation of how much players make. I cannot tell you to the penny how much Lebron, Aaron Judge, Messi, Ronaldo, Pat Mahomes ect make cause it’s irrelevant in those leagues. The NHL is so behind in terms of creating a flexible cap system that creates balance but still allows teams who have the budget to spend to spend.


As you said it creates a divide between fans and players, fans and the organization. Hopefully things change

 

[HellasLEAF]

Everybody wanted 70, even the coach I’d bet.

A Maple Leaf so good has put himself in position to score 70 goals in a season. I will not come down on Matthews or the team for this. Other people can. I'm not doing it. It will have to go down as a learning.

 

[Gilmour1996]

One guy had a migraine and missed games. I have bad migraines and I go to the hospital and get an IV and drugs and by the time the IV is done the migraine is gone. Nylander who has the best doctors in the world missed half the playoffs

You get dressed, get to the hospital and then wait in Emergency for up to 12 hours with a bad migraine to see a doctor? Then take the time for an IV and then get home? Yeah, right! I'm sure Willie has time to do that for days in a row. By the time he gets home his migraine will probably be back, if it ever even left. His migraines could be so bad he is unable to drive and pukes if he has to travel. You don't have a clue about his condition, his mobility and his responses to treatment, notwithstanding his role in the premier hockey league in the world. Lots of old ladies out there bitchin' about their bad migraines without realizing that many others have far worse migraines and far more intense physical jobs than using a pair of knitting needles to craft a pair of slippers for grandpa.

 

[Gallagbi]

Watch it again, he was floating in the middle of the ice in the Leaf end.

He's fine, really nothing for him to do on that play. Mo is flat footed, Sammy doesn't poke, Marner doesn't make Pasha's route longer. Other 3 don't play a role in the GA

 

[frizzer1]

Last year’s playoffs they split up Marner and Matthews.
Tavares had slowed down so much by the playoffs that he was terrible.
In short, they tried it and it didn’t work.
I think they need a 2nd line centre to play with willy or we will see the same old story again.

 

[arso40]

Last playoffs he was coming off a high ankle sprain and he was the only one who showed up
One guy had a migraine and missed games. I have bad migraines and I go to the hospital and get an IV and drugs and by the time the IV is done the migraine is gone. Nylander who has the best doctors in the world missed half the playoffs
And matthews our savior had an undisclosed injury and missed half the playoffs
But yep keep spinning the crap about how marner is solely responsible for our playoff defeat

I’m tired of hearing marner doesn’t show up in the playoffs and our other two greedy bastards haven’t done shit all
To contribute to a successful playoff’s as much as people spin this narrative

Our biggest culprit has been poor goaltending who can’t make the great save when needed

Maybe this year things change

For all those posters who keep bashing this team please feel free to go root for whatever bandwagon team you can find

So the two greedy bastards are Matthew and Nylander it’s official Marner can’t do no wrong in here huh

Last year’s playoffs they split up Marner and Matthews.
Tavares had slowed down so much by the playoffs that he was terrible.
In short, they tried it and it didn’t work.
I think they need a 2nd line centre to play with willy or we will see the same old story again.

Tavares Knies and Nylander were not the problem last year

Watch it again, he was floating in the middle of the ice in the Leaf end.

So leave his side or the ice open to help people that should have that situation under control?

 

[arso40]

Watch it again, he was floating in the middle of the ice in the Leaf end.

So leave his side or the ice open to help people that should have that situation under control?

I went back to watch the play, there is zero chance Marner would have been able to bump Pastrnak. It was a dump in from the red line on the left side of the ice, he would have got called for interference or a trip at the speed Pastrnak was going at. Secondly, Marner was puck watching (if you want to put blame on him for something it would be that. He was watching the dump in and wasn't even facing Pastrnak's direction to see him sneak behind him very fast. The one guy who was facing forward and could see that play developing was Rielly. But unfortunately Rielly was WAY too high and he could not react in time. I don't want to shit on Nylander too much, but if he does 3 or 4 hard strides he probably disrupts that play as well. He floated in. Like I said, break down's on everyone's part but i wouldn't blame on one person.

the whole play developed right in front of marners face your suggesting there was nothing he could do he was infront of him in the neutral zone and he couldn’t do nothing ? Reillys man once he gets into the zone you don’t even communicate with your dman so he gets picced up but Nylander can take four five strides right ? Gotchya

 

[ZEBROA]

In hockey, one person isn't going to make or break the series, you need the whole teteam.

Then why pay him if he aint a gamebreaker?

The problem has been the other top players, are near there regular season form, he is not.

But right now he looks better then ever, So a change might come. But dont sign until absolutly needed. Or if he goes into a slump. Thats when you sign.

 

[Confucius]

Then why pay him if he aint a gamebreaker?

The problem has been the other top players, are near there regular season form, he is not.

But right now he looks better then ever, So a change might come. But dont sign until absolutly needed. Or if he goes into a slump. Thats when you sign.

Oh I’d expect Mitch to slowdown a bit. As hot as he appears to be, currently a 31 goal 110 point pace. It’s only a little better than the 30 goal 100 point player I categorize him as.

 

[ZEBROA]

Oh I’d expect Mitch to slowdown a bit. As hot as he appears to be, currently a 31 goal 110 point pace. It’s only a little better than the 30 goal 100 point player I categorize him as.

I realy dont care if they sign him or not. But if they gonna sign, do it at the right time. I want them to do what is best for the team, and i might be old but i am no Nostradamus.