Prospect Info: Mitch Marner (continued)

[WTFMAN99]

Here's the question that I'm sure I'll get shot for.

First;y - YES, Marner has NHL talent.... and YES, Marner is too good for the OHL .... BUT ... come September, if Marner is still only around the 160- 165lb mark - does anyone think the Leaf Brass will be extra-cautious with him and send him back JUST so that he's not at risk and has another year to put on NHL weight?

Too good to go back or not - I'm not sure I can see Shanny or Lou taking any chances with a potential Franchise player getting hurt over one more year.

Just a thought.

He weighed in at camp as per Henny at 169.5lbs, I'm sure he's dropped some weight playing hockey this year, but I think if he puts in a good off season (coupled with more physical maturation), we could see him come into next training camp with 175-178lbs on him.

 

[kk87]

I think Nylander is safe to be a 2C, if he overachieves and is our 1C, great.

I kind of disagree, I think he's currently on track to be a clear 1C. That could change, but that's how his trajectory looks right now.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Here's the question that I'm sure I'll get shot for.

First;y - YES, Marner has NHL talent.... and YES, Marner is too good for the OHL .... BUT ... come September, if Marner is still only around the 160- 165lb mark - does anyone think the Leaf Brass will be extra-cautious with him and send him back JUST so that he's not at risk and has another year to put on NHL weight?

Too good to go back or not - I'm not sure I can see Shanny or Lou taking any chances with a potential Franchise player getting hurt over one more year.

Just a thought.

Marner's 19yr old season and how it's handled may ultimately determine how this entire rebuild goes.

Personally I think he'll be too good for the OHL but not physically ready for 82 NHL games.

The best way to handle him in my opinion is a hybrid approach around working out and training with pros every day and selectively playing him against certain opponents.

Come Christmas send him to the World Juniors then you determine based on how he's looked whether or not you stay with that plan for the 2nd half or let him go back to the OHL which may not offer much development wise.

Spot NHL duty around an AHL conditioning stint and WJHC tourney and a focus on off ice development may frustrate those wanting him to play and produce every night but in the long run it may be the best thing for him.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I kind of disagree, I think he's currently on track to be a clear 1C. That could change, but that's how his trajectory looks right now.

I wouldn't be surprised if he became a #1C, but I don't like having that expectation to be honest, because I could really see this board crapping on him if he failed to reach 1st line centre status in the NHL.

2nd line centre is a fair expectation for him and if he overachieves all the better. I don't think there will be any "disappointment" this way.

 

[Drew75]

Marner's 19yr old season and how it's handled may ultimately determine how this entire rebuild goes.

Personally I think he'll be too good for the OHL but not physically ready for 82 NHL games.

The best way to handle him in my opinion is a hybrid approach around working out and training with pros every day and selectively playing him against certain opponents.

Come Christmas send him to the World Juniors then you determine based on how he's looked whether or not you stay with that plan for the 2nd half or let him go back to the OHL which may not offer much development wise.

Spot NHL duty around an AHL conditioning stint and WJHC tourney and a focus on off ice development may frustrate those wanting him to play and produce every night but in the long run it may be the best thing for him.

Interesting approach. This could work.

To be clear, as soon as he has NHL size, he should be full time on the team - the size is my only concern.

 

[Mess]

Here's the question that I'm sure I'll get shot for.

Firstly - YES, Marner has NHL talent.... and YES, Marner is too good for the OHL .... BUT ... come September, if Marner is still only around the 160- 165lb mark - does anyone think the Leaf Brass will be extra-cautious with him and send him back JUST so that he's not at risk and has another year to put on NHL weight?

Too good to go back or not - I'm not sure I can see Shanny or Lou taking any chances with a potential Franchise player getting hurt over one more year.

Just a thought.

Under your scenario I posted this in the last thread (earlier).

Leafs will keep him for the 9 game trial period with the NHL team (delaying his return to junior) but spreading out those 9 NHL games over the Leafs first 15 games of so. This would take Marner to mid November..

Then when/if returned to junior it will be only for a few weeks (10 games) before he heads out to Team Canada camp and the WJC again in Buffalo.

Once he returns after the WJC mid January he will only have played about 10 OHL games by then and over 1/2 London season over.

He then plays out the season and tries to lead London to the long playoff run & Memorial Cup before he joins the Marlies for their Calder Cup run at the end of his OHL season.

So I can see Marner playing for Leafs (9 games), London (~1/2 season and playoffs), Team Canada @ WJC & Marlies (playoffs) IF Leafs management doesn't think Mitch is big enough to play in the full-time next year.

 

[Sypher04]

It's all semantics but exceeding your expectations is not the same as overachieving

I most certainly get what you're saying though. Just look at the crap Kadri has gotten for only becoming a 2C

 

[Sypher04]

If marner puts in the time this offseason to work on improving his strength I can't see any chance of him not being a full tim NHLer. He doesn't need to hulk out or anything, just some improvement. I'm sure the Leafs will provide him all the resources he could need

 

[WTFMAN99]

It's all semantics but exceeding your expectations is not the same as overachieving

I most certainly get what you're saying though. Just look at the crap Kadri has gotten for only becoming a 2C

Exactly.

I said at the beginning of the year that I see Kadri as a 2C and that 50 points is probably fair expectations but everyone thought more ice time and more PP time = more points. They don't realize his 5 on 5 points will be reduced by getting the tougher match ups. 60-70 points was never realistic.

You get what I am trying to say though, trying to keep expectations in line here. Some people seem like they will be calling for his head if he isn't a franchise centre for us.

 

[TheProspector]

Leafs fans STILL underrate Marner and Nylander. I know we've suffered so many disappointments, but I don't think most of you guys realise how unprecedented the production from both of these guys have put up for their age.

Barzal? He isn't even putting up the production in his draft+1 year that Marner got in his draft year. His draft year comparables are Brayden Schenn, Sam Reinhart, Brayden Point, Ty Rattie, Nick Merkley, Duncan Milroy, Nigel Dawes, Jamie Lundmark, Zach Boychuk, Oleg Saprykin, and Gilbert Brule.

Those are OK players, but Marner's comparables? Bryan Little, Steven Stamkos, David Legwand, Taylor Hall, John Tavares, and Jason Spezza. Different class of players entirely.

 

[ACC1224]

Here's the question that I'm sure I'll get shot for.

First;y - YES, Marner has NHL talent.... and YES, Marner is too good for the OHL .... BUT ... come September, if Marner is still only around the 160- 165lb mark - does anyone think the Leaf Brass will be extra-cautious with him and send him back JUST so that he's not at risk and has another year to put on NHL weight?

Too good to go back or not - I'm not sure I can see Shanny or Lou taking any chances with a potential Franchise player getting hurt over one more year.

Just a thought.

If he hasn't gained weight by September he probably won't.
He is a Leaf next year, 100%

 

[Purity*]

Leafs fans STILL underrate Marner and Nylander. I know we've suffered so many disappointments, but I don't think most of you guys realise how unprecedented the production from both of these guys have put up for their age.

Barzal? He isn't even putting up the production in his draft+1 year that Marner got in his draft year. His draft year comparables are Brayden Schenn, Sam Reinhart, Brayden Point, Ty Rattie, Nick Merkley, Duncan Milroy, Nigel Dawes, Jamie Lundmark, Zach Boychuk, Oleg Saprykin, and Gilbert Brule.

Those are OK players, but Marner's comparables? Bryan Little, Steven Stamkos, David Legwand, Taylor Hall, John Tavares, and Jason Spezza. Different class of players entirely.

I'm not sure if people have their heads wrapped around the fact that we have potentially franchise-transforming prospects on our hands, on top of the best prospect pool we've had in the last decade.

This isn't a Tlusty/Kulemin/Kadri/Schenn prospect group. We got prospects in a whole different stratosphere.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Under your scenario I posted this in the last thread (earlier).

Leafs will keep him for the 9 game trial period with the NHL team (delaying his return to junior) but spreading out those 9 NHL games over the Leafs first 15 games of so. This would take Marner to mid November..

Then when/if returned to junior it will be only for a few weeks (10 games) before he heads out to Team Canada camp and the WJC again in Buffalo.

Once he returns after the WJC mid January he will only have played about 10 OHL games by then and over 1/2 London season over.

He then plays out the season and tries to lead London to the long playoff run & Memorial Cup before he joins the Marlies for their Calder Cup run at the end of his OHL season.

So I can see Marner playing for Leafs (9 games), London (~1/2 season and playoffs), Team Canada @ WJC & Marlies (playoffs) IF Leafs management doesn't think Mitch is big enough to play in the full-time next year.

And don't forget that an AHL conditioning assignment could work for ~2 weeks or so during those first 3 months. Could get him say 6 AHL games and into 10-15 NHL games before the WJHC. We can't outright assign him to the Marlies but as an NHL player he could do a conditioning assignment.

I don't see us worrying about the 10 games played window. The 40 game window however could come into play in terms of what route to take.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'm not sure if people have their heads wrapped around the fact that we have potentially franchise-transforming prospects on our hands, on top of the best prospect pool we've had in the last decade.

This isn't a Tlusty/Kulemin/Kadri/Schenn prospect group. We got prospects in a whole different stratosphere.

I'm glad you have the word potentially in front of "franchise-transforming" prospects. Some people simply expect them to be franchise players and if they don't live up to that, people will be upset with them.

 

[Mess]

I'm not sure if people have their heads wrapped around the fact that we have potentially franchise-transforming prospects on our hands, on top of the best prospect pool we've had in the last decade.

This isn't a Tlusty/Kulemin/Kadri/Schenn prospect group. We got prospects in a whole different stratosphere.

Marner tied for OHL scoring lead and Nylander leading the AHL in scoring does make the potential future much brighter than its been in a long time.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Yes he is more likely to get injured if he doesn't have the size or strength (RNH) but it hasnt hurt other similar shifty players such as Kane or Gaudreau

 

[mikebel111*]

Exactly.

I said at the beginning of the year that I see Kadri as a 2C and that 50 points is probably fair expectations but everyone thought more ice time and more PP time = more points. They don't realize his 5 on 5 points will be reduced by getting the tougher match ups. 60-70 points was never realistic.

You get what I am trying to say though, trying to keep expectations in line here. Some people seem like they will be calling for his head if he isn't a franchise centre for us.

Agreed. Kadri has turned into a solid draft pick and player for us.

 

[Purity*]

Yes he is more likely to get injured if he doesn't have the size or strength (RNH) but it hasnt hurt other similar shifty players such as Kane or Gaudreau

Marner has insane mobility and shiftiness. He will definitely acquaint himself with some of Kane's moves that he uses to avoid contact.

Agreed. Kadri has turned into a solid draft pick and player for us.

Judging from his other peers from surrounding draft years at #7OA, Kadri has done just fine.

 

[naturalnumbas]

babcock apparently has a reputation for leaving players down longer than people think is necessary. So, you never know.

watching marner play it looks like he could benefit from some tougher opposition, and looking at the top 6.. Shouldn't be too hard to take a spot, especially since there will probably be some trades.

thing is that whether or not he plays probably all depends on camp next season anyway.

Can he come up to the ahl after his junior season is over this year? That would be pretty great.

 

[RoadWarrior]

I'm not sure if people have their heads wrapped around the fact that we have potentially franchise-transforming prospects on our hands, on top of the best prospect pool we've had in the last decade.

This isn't a Tlusty/Kulemin/Kadri/Schenn prospect group. We got prospects in a whole different stratosphere.

Marner and Nylander are both franchise players. Plain and simple.

The only comparables for previous leaf prospects would be MacDonald and Sittler from the 70's.

In terms of current NHL players try Pat Kane and Jonathan Toews.

This isn't hyperbole because statistically the numbers they're putting up are on that kind of level and anyone who who has see them play recently knows just how completely they've dominated.

Hunter and Bergman deserve gold medals.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Marner and Nylander are both franchise players. Plain and simple.

The only comparables for previous leaf prospects would be MacDonald and Sittler from the 70's.

In terms of current NHL players try Pat Kane and Jonathan Toews.

This isn't hyperbole because statistically the numbers they're putting up are on that kind of level and anyone who who has see them play recently knows just how completely they've dominated.

Hunter and Bergman deserve gold medals.

And this is why I try to undersell Marner and Nylander....

No pressure in Toronto right?

 

[ACC1224]

Marner and Nylander are both franchise players. Plain and simple.

The only comparables for previous leaf prospects would be MacDonald and Sittler from the 70's.

In terms of current NHL players try Pat Kane and Jonathan Toews.

This isn't hyperbole because statistically the numbers they're putting up are on that kind of level and anyone who who has see them play recently knows just how completely they've dominated.

Hunter and Bergman deserve gold medals.

I don't see either of them looking like Toews.

 

[Gavy]

If the Leafs think Marner is still too light for the NHL, but too good for the OHL, is doing what Matthews is doing even an option the Leafs would entertain with Marner?

 

[Purity*]

And this is why I try to undersell Marner and Nylander....

No pressure in Toronto right?

There's pressure anywhere you play, it's not just exclusive to Toronto.

Star players exceed no matter where they go. Historically, look at how star players have thrived in mega-markets like the Lakers, Yankees, Cowboys, etc...

 

[SEER]

Seer I've seen your videos lately and first of all I want to say thank you for the time you put in, obviously it is a pretty cool hobby of yours.

Again, I am stressing that, thank you for the time you put in. I have some feedback for you on the quality of your videos.

First of all I appreciate your desire to separate yourself from other highlight reel youtubers by making "extended highlights" but this leads you putting in a LOT of filler to increase video lengths - not specifically this video but I've seem some of your highlight reels (Nielsen of the hurricanes) where there is almost no actual highlights and just random footage you scraped together. Basically you need to improve your quality control, quantity does not trump quality.

Secondly with your rendering choices, you only upload in 360p and 480p, this is 2015 and you need to start rendering your projects in 1080p, something you very much should adapt to. You might make the argument a lot of the clips you find are only in 360 or 480 but this comes back to quality control. For example, in this video you fraps (or used what ever recording software you have) the GIFS, I repeat GIFS - no hate on kadri91 for making them - but the incredibly low resolution and frame rate spikes is just not content you should be using to make these videos. Every single one of those highlights from this weekend were available in HD from sportsnet (their twitter feed + their homepage putting together their own brief highlight packages). My point there is just because you find some new highlights - doesn't mean you should feel comfortable about using really really bad copies of them.

Third is your editing choices - you have used the same red font and black edged filter in every single video - you basically staple that filter to every single clip and it looks pretty mundane after the 2nd highlight that has it - especially in grainy 480p. I think you need to start spicing up what you are using as apart of every single clip. High quality footage actually is made worse by these miss used filters - if you recorded all HD clips and kept each clip short and just to the point you wouldn't find yourself trying to dress everything up and cramming filler into each video, it would just look great as is.

I won't critique your music choices as that is a subjective taste - but I don't think I'm very far off the mark when saying Katy Perry or Micheal Jackson probably aren't the best used in a hockey highlight video.

Anyways, to regress - I do find your videos super awesome, I think it is great so many people can be introduced to players through them and I applaud you for the time you put in. I just feel like having the comments blocked on youtube has lead you to basically avoid any and all constructive criticism of your videos, leaving you basically in the dust when compared to some one else using all HD clips rendering in 1080p with very conservative clean editing - they're going to get the subscribers and you are going to be stuck with low video views. What I am suggesting is very simple things to accommodate into your videos to get you more views and most importantly more recognition for all the work you've done.

I don't even know if you'll read this but there yah go! Something to hopefully point you in the right direction - but also a big thank you I think you are doing a wicked job.

I use an ancient computer.., ancient programs.. and believe it or not, I load all my videos, since the beginning of August..., in 960 x 540... It's you-tube that changes it, when I use their filters to get the desired effects.. Sorry you have such a problem with it.. I can't update anything on my computer.., so I can't get newer programs, etc... I live below the poverty line.. and am somewhat physically disabled, so my resources are slim...

I disabled comments, because 90% or more of the comments (bad, or even good) usually contain some sort of profanity... I don't want any profanity on my channel,, because it is an all ages channel.. and I am nearing 60.. and don't really appreciate reading that stuff on the Internet, anyway..

My channel has constantly been growing, since I started, but I know not as much as others.. Since none of my videos are monetized.., it's not making any difference to my bank account.. : ) I'd rather grow slowly and stay up there, then disappear like many others have..

Please message me, with any more comments like this, so it doesn't affect the threads.. thanks.. and I have no problem with criticism.., if it is expressed politely... Everyone has their own opinion on things..

..And thanks to everyone for the comments.. If you saw what I worked with, you might be surprised..